Looking to go digital, completely computer-audio illiterate. Please help!

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Zitro
Zitro Posts: 864
edited December 2013 in Going Digital
Hello,

So I'm a young audiophile who dove into the hobby just a few years ago. Up until now, I've been using a cd player and a turntable for almost all of my listening. With all of the advancements and convenience of computer audio, I'd like to explore that route as well, but know literally nothing about this, and the more I research, the more confused I get haha. The biggest problem I have is my computer rig is in one room, and my main audio rig is in the living room. I am aware of wireless options such as Sonos or Squeezebox (never used either, though); is this the only real option I have given how far apart my computer is from my main rig? Will the wireless Sonos/Squeezebox really preserve the sound quality? Also, if I could I'd rather have my computer separate from my hifi altogether, like a standalone media server. Does anyone have anything like this? Just trying to get an idea as to what my options are, and I apologize for having no idea what the hell I'm doing.

Here's a snapshot of my modest equipment:

Computer rig:
Custom quad-core i5 Windows 7 PC, running Jriver to a VERY cheap Creative X-Fi USB DAC
Sansui G-9700 (my pride and joy)
Polk Lsi7's

Main living room rig:
NAD C320BEE
ProJect Debut Carbon
Polk LSi15's

Thanks for helping me out!

Yours Truly,

Overwhelmed Hi-Fi Rookie
- Jeremy

Amps: Jolida FX-10, NAD 3045, NAD C320BEE, Sansui G-9700
Speakers: Polk Monitor 7A's, KEF Reference 104aB
Sources: ProJect Debut Carbon, Sonos streaming FLAC
Post edited by Zitro on

Comments

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Depends on how much you want to spend. Cheapest probably being Squeezebox/Sonos, but either of those options require a good dac to get the most from them. Separate music servers will need to be tied to the computer, most anyway, hard wired. Those can range from 1000 bucks to 5,000 and up. Other options are Apple, WD, for cheaper alternatives but also require a good dac.

    As a side note, that Nad your using on the LSI 15's is a tad light in the power department. Feed those speakers some high quality current and they'll come alive.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Zitro
    Zitro Posts: 864
    edited December 2013
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    Depends on how much you want to spend. Cheapest probably being Squeezebox/Sonos, but either of those options require a good dac to get the most from them. Separate music servers will need to be tied to the computer, most anyway, hard wired. Those can range from 1000 bucks to 5,000 and up. Other options are Apple, WD, for cheaper alternatives but also require a good dac.

    As a side note, that Nad your using on the LSI 15's is a tad light in the power department. Feed those speakers some high quality current and they'll come alive.

    Thanks! I knew I'd need a better DAC either way. Now, is it true what I'm reading that Sonos does NOT support FLAC? Most of my digital collection is FLAC right now, played through JRiver. My cheapo Creative USB soundcard handles my FLAC files just fine.

    I know the NAD is not the best amp for the load the LSI's present, but I've held back on upgrading my amp a) because I may be selling the LSI15's and b) I just haven't found a deal on a new one that was tempting enough to replace the NAD. I do enjoy its warm, full sound, and living in an apartment, I can't crank the speakers anyways so the NAD powers them to reasonable levels without even really getting warm. Eventually though, I do want to replace the NAD.
    - Jeremy

    Amps: Jolida FX-10, NAD 3045, NAD C320BEE, Sansui G-9700
    Speakers: Polk Monitor 7A's, KEF Reference 104aB
    Sources: ProJect Debut Carbon, Sonos streaming FLAC
  • GospelTruth
    GospelTruth Posts: 403
    edited December 2013
    Options
    I would build a NAS and connect it to your router. I did this myself for about $500 at the time using two 2TB drives and a Synology DS212J (you can get the newer model here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108139 for $199).

    Then using a Western Digital TV Live player, I connect to the NAS and access my music, photos and movies. I don't have to have the computer on to play anything which I think is great. You will have to copy your music to the NAS, but once done, you can access it from any computer/device you want. The WD TV Live plays pretty much every format, including FLAC. You can hook that up to your receiver via HDMI or optical until you decide to get a better DAC and then you can connect it to that.

    For the money, I think it's a great way to go.

    Additionally, with the Synology DS213J, you can access your files from the web if you set up a web address for yourself. I've tried doing this and streaming music to my iPhone via the Synology Music App and it works great. Additionally, via a web address you can let others (family/friends) access your photos and what not via the web using this NAS.
    Speakers
    Energy RC-70 Mains, Energy RC-LRC Center, Energy RC-R (x4) Rear Channels, Energy RC-R (x2) Front Effects
    Polk 5jr+
    Polk SDA 2B
    Polk SDS 3.1TL

    Equipment
    Panamax 5510 Re-generator Power Conditioner
    Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver
    Digital Sources: Sony CDP-X339ES CD Player, HHB CDR830 BurnIt Professional CD Recorder, Sony PS3, Oppo DV-983H DVD Player
    Analog Sources: Sony TC-K890ES Cassette, Nakamichi DR-1 Cassette, Technics SL-7 Turntable
  • Zitro
    Zitro Posts: 864
    edited December 2013
    Options
    I would build a NAS and connect it to your router. I did this myself for about $500 at the time using two 2TB drives and a Synology DS212J (you can get the newer model here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108139 for $199).

    Then using a Western Digital TV Live player, I connect to the NAS and access my music, photos and movies. I don't have to have the computer on to play anything which I think is great. You will have to copy your music to the NAS, but once done, you can access it from any computer/device you want. The WD TV Live plays pretty much every format, including FLAC. You can hook that up to your receiver via HDMI or optical until you decide to get a better DAC and then you can connect it to that.

    For the money, I think it's a great way to go.

    Additionally, with the Synology DS213J, you can access your files from the web if you set up a web address for yourself. I've tried doing this and streaming music to my iPhone via the Synology Music App and it works great. Additionally, via a web address you can let others (family/friends) access your photos and what not via the web using this NAS.

    Good suggestion; seems like a good option for a fair price. Only downside is I would have no choice but to get a DAC, as the NAD is from 2004 and has only analog RCA inputs lol; no HDMI or optical for me. But, a good DAC is a good investment anyways, so it's not a huge issue.

    I've never set up a NAS before, so hopefully I don't mess it up if I go this route lol.
    - Jeremy

    Amps: Jolida FX-10, NAD 3045, NAD C320BEE, Sansui G-9700
    Speakers: Polk Monitor 7A's, KEF Reference 104aB
    Sources: ProJect Debut Carbon, Sonos streaming FLAC
  • eeagle
    eeagle Posts: 226
    edited December 2013
    Options
    +++"Sansui G-9700 (my pride and joy)".... I love this same vintage receiver and have it's 200W driving my SDA 1A's here in my computer room.

    I am also a big fan of the Squeezebox system.

    The Logitech Squeezebox Server software is free, as is the SqueezePlay software which can be run on any PC which could then be connected to your preferred sound system.
    SDA SRS 1.2
    Adcom GFA-5802
    Adcom GFP-750
    Sony DVP-NS999ES
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Ps audio dac with network bridge is king and will destroy the squeezebox touch in every way.
  • fjross
    fjross Posts: 183
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Music Direct has an sale on the Music fidelity M-1 CLIC right now Orig. $1900 down to $599.00. It's a DAC that you can stream music to as well as internet radio/ ipod dock/ preamp. They are know for making a quality Dac.
    Mcintosh MC-501 mono blocks
    Mcintosh C-45
    Mcintosh MVP-871
    PS AUDIO AV5000
    MIT 3.3 Shotgun biwire speaker interface
    MIT 3.3 Shotgun XLR interconnects
    Polk 2.3TL's Gimpod boards/F-1 modded crossovers/dynamat/JB weld/Larry's rings/Blackhole 5 strips
    Polk 3.1 TL's mint/stock (purchased new)
    Polk SDA-2's
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
    edited December 2013
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    Zitro wrote: »
    Thanks! I knew I'd need a better DAC either way. Now, is it true what I'm reading that Sonos does NOT support FLAC? Most of my digital collection is FLAC right now, played through JRiver. My cheapo Creative USB soundcard handles my FLAC files just fine.

    Sonos DOES support flac.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited December 2013
    Options
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Sonos DOES support flac.

    And it does a fantastic job!
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • GospelTruth
    GospelTruth Posts: 403
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Zitro wrote: »
    Good suggestion; seems like a good option for a fair price. Only downside is I would have no choice but to get a DAC, as the NAD is from 2004 and has only analog RCA inputs lol; no HDMI or optical for me. But, a good DAC is a good investment anyways, so it's not a huge issue.

    I've never set up a NAS before, so hopefully I don't mess it up if I go this route lol.

    The WD TV Live does support composite out for TV and audio, but I can't believe that the sound is that good with the DAC inside the player - but you can use it without a DAC.

    As far as the NAS goes, it's pretty easy to set up and the directions are straight forward. All you need is the Synology NAS and a couple 2TB or 3TB drives and a network cable to connect to your router and you are in business. If you do decide to go that route and have any questions let me know. I'll be happy to help out.
    Speakers
    Energy RC-70 Mains, Energy RC-LRC Center, Energy RC-R (x4) Rear Channels, Energy RC-R (x2) Front Effects
    Polk 5jr+
    Polk SDA 2B
    Polk SDS 3.1TL

    Equipment
    Panamax 5510 Re-generator Power Conditioner
    Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver
    Digital Sources: Sony CDP-X339ES CD Player, HHB CDR830 BurnIt Professional CD Recorder, Sony PS3, Oppo DV-983H DVD Player
    Analog Sources: Sony TC-K890ES Cassette, Nakamichi DR-1 Cassette, Technics SL-7 Turntable
  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited December 2013
    Options
    I would just get an Oppo 105 and an be done with it.
  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,056
    edited December 2013
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    I would just get an Oppo 105 and an be done with it.

    Are you going to help Skip and me pay for our 105's? He's probably at his computer right now with his credit card out and I'm getting close:)
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • Zitro
    Zitro Posts: 864
    edited December 2013
    Options
    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    Are you going to help Skip and me pay for our 105's? He's probably at his computer right now with his credit card out and I'm getting close:)

    Lol right?

    OK, let's say I decided I Don't mind having my computer on all the time. Am I understanding this right in that I can connect this guy (WD TV Live) to my router, either wirelessly or via ethernet, and then to my tv and integrated amp?

    http://www.amazon.com/WD-TV-Play-Media-Player/dp/B008YDUTRO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1386577966&sr=8-2&keywords=wd+tv+live

    If so, that's a good temporary solution, at least to have streaming, until I can get a better setup.
    - Jeremy

    Amps: Jolida FX-10, NAD 3045, NAD C320BEE, Sansui G-9700
    Speakers: Polk Monitor 7A's, KEF Reference 104aB
    Sources: ProJect Debut Carbon, Sonos streaming FLAC
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Will it work as a temporary solution....yes Sir. Will it sound good doing it on it's own ? Debatable....
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited December 2013
    Options
    OK, now that I have some perspective on budget I can offer more constructive advice...

    If I had less than $100 and I wanted to stream only audio I'd go with an early model Apple Airport Express, but it's not a perfect solution. Those actually had a decent DAC in them and sound good on their own, way better than that WD device is gonna sound. It's also a great option because you can add a DAC later, so it's a scalable option as well. Doing what it does, playing redbook CD, the sound coming from the AEX into and using the Oppo 105 as a DAC sounds just as good as playing the files directly from the 105.

    So it's an option that scales well, but there are some drawbacks:

    1 - No hi-rez audio. It only does rebook CD, so if you have a lot of hi-rez content from HDtracks the AEX will downconvert to redbook CD resolution.
    2 - It's audio only, so if you're looking to stream video as well you'll need something different.
    3 - iTunes needs to be running, and obviously your music needs to be in a format that iTunes plays, so likely Apple Lossless.
    4 - You need some way to control the AEX, as there's no video output to the TV. I use an iPad, you'd either need something like that or could control directly from the computer, but there is no 'interface' for the AEX. You don't need an Apple device, there is an Android app as well though I've not personally used it, gets good reviews though. If you're on Blackberry or Windows mobile you may be SOL, not sure.

    I can't recommend any video streamer device in the cheaper price range for audio unfortunately. I've tried them all and all have marginal sound quality, even when using an external DAC. Most of these devices are built around the DD codec audio standards and as a result most of these boxes end up resampling incoming audio signals to that native 48khz (CD is 44), and every one I've heard does that with some detriment to sound quality. I have three Apple TVs in the house and use those for video streaming, and would LOVE to use that one box for everything audio and video, but they just don't sound great to me so I give up that convenience and use those for video only and use the AEX and/or Oppo 105 for audio. It's the same with every other streamer I've tried from WD, Netgear, Dune, etc...they all resample and sacrifice sound quality.

    So, depending on what's most important to you, I'd recommend one of two paths:

    - If the drawbacks above aren't a deal breaker and you want the absolute best sound quality you can get under $100 then the AEX is the way to go, there's nothing in that price range that would touch it for sound quality.
    - If the drawbacks above are a deal breaker then there's not really a next best option under $100 for sound quality, they're all going to sound about the same, just have to pick the device that has the features and interface you like. I personally have tried tons of options and like the Apple TV, but #3 above would still apply. My next favorite device was the Netgear just because it had a better UI than the WD.
  • Zitro
    Zitro Posts: 864
    edited December 2013
    Options
    OK, now that I have some perspective on budget I can offer more constructive advice...

    If I had less than $100 and I wanted to stream only audio I'd go with an early model Apple Airport Express, but it's not a perfect solution. Those actually had a decent DAC in them and sound good on their own, way better than that WD device is gonna sound. It's also a great option because you can add a DAC later, so it's a scalable option as well. Doing what it does, playing redbook CD, the sound coming from the AEX into and using the Oppo 105 as a DAC sounds just as good as playing the files directly from the 105.

    So it's an option that scales well, but there are some drawbacks:

    1 - No hi-rez audio. It only does rebook CD, so if you have a lot of hi-rez content from HDtracks the AEX will downconvert to redbook CD resolution.
    2 - It's audio only, so if you're looking to stream video as well you'll need something different.
    3 - iTunes needs to be running, and obviously your music needs to be in a format that iTunes plays, so likely Apple Lossless.
    4 - You need some way to control the AEX, as there's no video output to the TV. I use an iPad, you'd either need something like that or could control directly from the computer, but there is no 'interface' for the AEX. You don't need an Apple device, there is an Android app as well though I've not personally used it, gets good reviews though. If you're on Blackberry or Windows mobile you may be SOL, not sure.

    I can't recommend any video streamer device in the cheaper price range for audio unfortunately. I've tried them all and all have marginal sound quality, even when using an external DAC. Most of these devices are built around the DD codec audio standards and as a result most of these boxes end up resampling incoming audio signals to that native 48khz (CD is 44), and every one I've heard does that with some detriment to sound quality. I have three Apple TVs in the house and use those for video streaming, and would LOVE to use that one box for everything audio and video, but they just don't sound great to me so I give up that convenience and use those for video only and use the AEX and/or Oppo 105 for audio. It's the same with every other streamer I've tried from WD, Netgear, Dune, etc...they all resample and sacrifice sound quality.

    So, depending on what's most important to you, I'd recommend one of two paths:

    - If the drawbacks above aren't a deal breaker and you want the absolute best sound quality you can get under $100 then the AEX is the way to go, there's nothing in that price range that would touch it for sound quality.
    - If the drawbacks above are a deal breaker then there's not really a next best option under $100 for sound quality, they're all going to sound about the same, just have to pick the device that has the features and interface you like. I personally have tried tons of options and like the Apple TV, but #3 above would still apply. My next favorite device was the Netgear just because it had a better UI than the WD.

    Thanks for the well thought out response! I am not necessarily on a $100 budget; I just thought it may be a quick fix until I got something better. But I guess I may as well do it once and do it right. The tough thing for my system going digital is I have no digital inputs since the amp is from 2004; only analog RCA.

    I did find something that looks like it can take the wireless concerns out of the equation, AND give me a high quality DAC with analog outs.....what do you think?

    http://www.musicdirect.com/p-45607-marantz-na7004-network-enabled-dac.aspx?source=igodigital&
    - Jeremy

    Amps: Jolida FX-10, NAD 3045, NAD C320BEE, Sansui G-9700
    Speakers: Polk Monitor 7A's, KEF Reference 104aB
    Sources: ProJect Debut Carbon, Sonos streaming FLAC
  • Zitro
    Zitro Posts: 864
    edited December 2013
    Options
    - Jeremy

    Amps: Jolida FX-10, NAD 3045, NAD C320BEE, Sansui G-9700
    Speakers: Polk Monitor 7A's, KEF Reference 104aB
    Sources: ProJect Debut Carbon, Sonos streaming FLAC
  • mccarty250
    mccarty250 Posts: 220
    edited December 2013
    Options
    So some commentary:

    WDTV Live does not play back high bitrate files i.e. 88/24 or 96/24 unfortunately. I run a couple in my home for audio/video and that is a disappointing limitation at least on the Live Plus versions that I have.

    I suggest buying a small HTPC like a Zotac Zbox and running XBMC. XBMC can run bitperfect WASAPI drivers and has a great customizable interface besides being FREE software.

    I output via TOSLINK to an external DAC, in my case an Emotiva XDA-2 (now on sale for $249...I spent a lot more...no affiliation on my part).

    You can plug an external usb HD directly into the Zbox or PC of your choice.

    If you buy an MCE external IR eye you can control this all remotely. There are also IOS and Android apps for XBMC and it supports Airplay if you're an Apple guy.