Polk PA 880.1?? and PA 660.4

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  • KaosTsoc
    KaosTsoc Posts: 372
    edited August 2010
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    mizike wrote: »
    Yeah wasnt thinking right with the amp on top I guess, but I did have it lifted off of the box with 4 pegs covered with felt to keep air going all around the amp, but didnt think about the bouncing. I think I will put it under the seat when I rewire to keep it in a cooler environment too.

    No worries. That what the forum is for, to help you understand etc. Yeah you did right with the peg's, and I would suggest that you do the same when you mount the amp under the seat if you can, or where ever you decide to put it. So, it sounds like the fog is starting to clear here for you, and that is good. Plus (please correct me if I am worng) with you upgradeing the wires it should also help with the heating up issue as well.

    Thanks.
    2006 Prerunner Access Cab
    5 Speed 4 cycl 2wd

    Audio:
    Pioneer P860 Head Unit
    Polk Audio MM6501
    Alpine PDX F-6
    Two SR124(SVC)
    Alpine PDX M12
    Kinetik HC2000 battery and Sleeve
    200 Amp Mean Green High Output Alternator




    Need a DJ, photobooth, or both for rent?

    http://photoboothdallas.org
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited August 2010
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    catch22atplay wrote: »
    Talking watts here, not sound quality. An unregulated amp would look like this with 80% efficiency.

    14.4vX70aX.8=806watts

    Same amp with a voltage drop to amp to 12.5 volts.

    12.5vX70aX.8=700watts

    700 watts to speakers using 20 gauge speaker wire 6 feet in length combined is -100 watts approx.

    700-100=600 watts real power to subs.

    Note that changing to 4 gauge may not solve the problem. The alt and battery are important as well. I'd be swapping that speaker wire 1st for sure.

    :confused: how did we go from talking about expensive wire is better, to talking about something thats purely a battery issue?

    Most stock alternators wouldn't feed your amps with 70A.
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  • mizike
    mizike Posts: 32
    edited August 2010
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    So on top of all this madness, should I also get a capacitor, or better battery?

    Its getting a little clearer lol. Thanks for all the help. Im telling you I never went through any of this all my life though, just threw and amp in, turned gain 3/4s and cranked my head unit, always banged and sounded pretty damn clear and good lol. But this is the most wattage I have put in a system.
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  • Roswellien
    Roswellien Posts: 28
    edited August 2010
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    As Dskip says don't waste money on a cap, its a bandaid for a problem instead of a cure. A battery would help, but first I would upgrade your power/ground wiring and do the big 3. After that you may want to look at a battery but with this wattage unless you are going to constantly push it hard you should be alright (assuming the battery you have now isnt 5yrs old and is of decent quality).

    Just remember like i said when the wire comes in compare the internal wire gauge to what you have run now, if its the same or smaller it would be a waste of time and if you can't return it a waste of money.

    Keep the runs as short as possible, the longer the run of wire the more resistance. If you can underseat mount your amp/amps great. Running a 12ga speaker wire from the seats to the trunk is also much easier then running a 4ga power cable. If at all possible also ground your amps back to the negative terminal of the battery with the same gauge wire you have for power. If not make sure the ground you go to is part of the chassis and you have sanded it down to bare metal.
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  • KaosTsoc
    KaosTsoc Posts: 372
    edited August 2010
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    mizike wrote: »
    So on top of all this madness, should I also get a capacitor, or better battery?

    Its getting a little clearer lol. Thanks for all the help. Im telling you I never went through any of this all my life though, just threw and amp in, turned gain 3/4s and cranked my head unit, always banged and sounded pretty damn clear and good lol. But this is the most wattage I have put in a system.

    Do not waste your time or money on a cap. What should do is get your alt tested to see how many amps it is producing. Depending on how may amps it is currently producing will determin if you need to get a new alt or not. Also take into account that you will be running you A/C, and or heater, and head lights, power doors etc etc as well, which demands power from you alt. Also you need to take into account the voltage that the alt produces, the two common volts are 12v, and 14.4v. The more electircal demand you put your alt means that the voltage will drop as well.

    Example:

    I have a stock alt that only produces about 80 amps. Now, since I plan on running a 1700-2000 watt rms system I would have to get a HO (HO=Highout put) alt that produces no less than 140 amps. There is a formula that you would need to know to figure it out. (Note: W=watts, V=Volts, A=Amps) I think it is W/V = A, and V*A= W I think I am close, but look it up on the net, and you will find it. So, with that said if you take 1700/12= 141.66666666667. Which means that if I want to charge my battery at 12 volts, and in order for me keep up with demand of my system I would need an alt that will produce 141 amps. Now ( to make things evern more confusing LOL sorry) if I wanted to charge my battery at 14.4 volts then I would take 1700/14.4= 118.05555555556. Which means that I would need an alt that charges at 14.4v, that will produce 118 amps. So, in order for me to prevent the head light diming problem, and the draining of batteries, and burning up the alt. I have to get a HO alt.

    Kind of confusing I know, but you dont want to take any chances with your electrical, believe me I know all about that. I have fried some many fuses, and almost fried my HU case I did not pay attention to these things.


    Then once you have that figured out, then look at getting a new DEEP CYCLE battery. Optima makes one, get the yellow top if do get one, or look at Stinger, and Kinetic. There are some many different brands out there, you just have to look, and do some research. Also if you do look at kinetic, give them a call, and they will have a guy named David that will you back. He has a bunch of info that he can give you on how to choose your battery, and what you are looking for etc. So, that would be helpful. You also have to have to I repeat one more time HAVE TOO do the big 3 upgrade as well, if you are running that much power as well. I think for every 1,000 watts of power you need to add 70 amps to your current alt. Hope this helps.

    Thanks.
    2006 Prerunner Access Cab
    5 Speed 4 cycl 2wd

    Audio:
    Pioneer P860 Head Unit
    Polk Audio MM6501
    Alpine PDX F-6
    Two SR124(SVC)
    Alpine PDX M12
    Kinetik HC2000 battery and Sleeve
    200 Amp Mean Green High Output Alternator




    Need a DJ, photobooth, or both for rent?

    http://photoboothdallas.org
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  • arun1963
    arun1963 Posts: 1,797
    edited August 2010
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    Roswellien wrote: »
    Keep the runs as short as possible, the longer the run of wire the more resistance.

    Everything else is spot on except this bit. The resistance of a wire is constant and yes, voltage drops the longer the run. However, with reference to all car audio installs this difference is insignificant.

    Power Cable:

    On a run length of say 12 feet of 4awg cable, at a load of 25 amps (most stock alternators would give you about this much) your voltage drop would be to the tune of 0.16 volts. Most equipment is rated for 14.4 volts. Most batteries won't give you this voltage, not with all the other duties it's doing. So 13.5-13.8 volts would be average from normal batteries in good condition. Now apply this to the formula catch22 gave earlier.

    25A x 13.6v x 0.75 (amps efficiency) = 255 watts
    25A x 13.44v(with voltage drop) x 0.75 = 252 watts.

    Lowering power by 127.5 watts (half of 255 watts) would lower volume by 3db. Lowering it by 3 watts would equal a difference of 0.07db. Even the most sensitive human ear would not hear that difference.

    Same rules apply for the voltage drop on the speaker wires. As long as you're using the right gauge, run lengths don't matter.
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  • mizike
    mizike Posts: 32
    edited August 2010
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    Yeah I will get a new battery had been looking at the optima yellow top when I was thinking of either a cap, battery or both. Mine is old genral battery so need a new one for sure. My lights on the dash dim each time the bass hits, so need to do that, and then this weekend I will also rerun all the new wires, ground, battery and speaker. I will mount the sub amp under the seat, the surround sound amp will have to go in the trunk but that one shouldnt get that hot.

    I got my Phoenix Gold amp in today. Just for kicks I hooked it up bridged to the fosgates and that thing hits harder then the polk. I have no clue what wattage it puts out though since I cant find anything online about the damn amp, but it is called QX350.2 so maybe 350 watts x 2? Not sure, but I bridged it and its running the fosgates. The subs are in parallel 1.6 ohms so probably 2ohms. Does bridging the amp drop it to 1 ohm if the subs are in parrallel?

    Its a 2 channel amp, not sure if it could push 1 ohm stereo. Im going to see if it overheats tomorrow on way to work and back. If not I might use that one for my subs and throw the Polk on my MB Quart components, since the Polk is really clear. I would assume the PG will overheat as well though.
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  • Roswellien
    Roswellien Posts: 28
    edited August 2010
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    PA880.1 will not run your components. Unless you picked up the PA660.4 and I had been thinking wrong the home time...

    The PA880 is a mono (read no stereo seperation) amp without the capability of properply processing the High frequencies your components will want. As far as the PG goes I can't find any info on it specifically (didnt search long though). But I can say generally amps are named after their MAX wattage and not their RMS. IE the current PG 2ch amp the 250.2 is rated at 76x2 RMS, so if I were to make a guess the amp is most likely a 120-130Wx2 at best.

    So lets do the math

    PG 350.2 = 130Wx2 for a total of 260w RMS @2ohm
    PA880.1 = 600Wx1 for a total of 600w RMS at @2ohm

    If the PG is blowing the polk out of the water it is beginning to sound like the amp was either bad out of the box, or now has issues do to being overheated multiple times.
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  • catch22atplay
    catch22atplay Posts: 130
    edited August 2010
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    You are correct and the PG bridged mono should be 350 watts rms based on their current model numbering anyways. Assuming old model numbers were similar the Polk amp should be hitting harder then the PG amp. If it isn't, something may be wrong here. I'd call tech support or RMA it personally.
    Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Quad Cab 2007
    Pioneer DEX-P99RS, IPOD Touch 64gb, Rockford Fosgate T1000-4, T600-2 & T1500-1bd CP
    Polk Audio SR speakers, 6.5's, 5.25's, SR tweets and 2 SR124-DVC subs in 1.57cu ft sealed enclosures
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  • mizike
    mizike Posts: 32
    edited August 2010
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    Yeah I forgot I couldnt put the mono amp on the components, gonna have to use the PG for the surround sound, but yes with out a doubt the PG is stronger then the Polk on the subs, but I am bridging it and running 1.6 ohm in parallel fosgates with it. Not sure the wattage, cant find nothing, it is the QX which was a really decent amp, its an older amp so higher quality, higher wattage then reported, but I would have thought the Polk would beat this PG for sure.

    I got my cables in today too, the ground and power are much larger then What I have now, the wires not the insulation, but the speaker wire 12 guaage is a joke, it is mostly insulation and just a little larger then what I got, so will have to buy that seperatly.

    The PG still overheated so it has to be too low of ohms and the small wires.
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  • Roswellien
    Roswellien Posts: 28
    edited August 2010
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    Yeh, I personally feel you will be surprised once you get proper power to the amp/amps.
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  • Roswellien
    Roswellien Posts: 28
    edited August 2010
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    New vid of the subs up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrBqzsfWuo
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  • mizike
    mizike Posts: 32
    edited August 2010
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    AT 1ohm I would love to see you keep it cranked up for 40 minutes and see if it freaking overheats, make me feel better if it does lol
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  • Roswellien
    Roswellien Posts: 28
    edited August 2010
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    Can say I could never even attempt it because its far to loud cranked like that, have a headache within 5 minutes with it cranked like that. I can say I've done it reasonably cranked for 2 3 hour trips so far. And like my original review says amp gets hot but never drops into protect.

    Like I said it sounds like your amp may have already been damaged from improper settings and supporting equipment.
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  • mizike
    mizike Posts: 32
    edited August 2010
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    Nah, the amp hasnt been damaged, it did it from the start with damn close to proper gain and got hot on first drive but I crank mine the whole time. Moderate level it will play all day but not cranked up at 1ohm. I dont think its even one ohm stable. My wires might be too small though and when I change them hopefully it wont get hot but the PG amp one channel runs cranked all day n night this week since I got it, but I think its once you go past 200 watts that might be when I just need thicker better wire, the SAS amp never overheated at 250 watts max, and the PG with one channel is probably 150 watts RMS, I think Im just getting up there in wattage and need better cables. Will see this week when I get a chance to run the new wires. But my friend has the Polk amp and said the same thing, his gets too hot in about an hour running at 1ohm cranked up, 2 ohms his is running all day now but he has proper wiring.
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  • mizike
    mizike Posts: 32
    edited August 2010
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    Well im part way there, I swapped out all the speaker wire, now the 12 gauge they provided was proably 13 gauge but pretty close when using the wire strippers so not a bad deal. Just swapping them out, the bass is harder, cleaner and my amp did not turn off going to work and back, but it is colder outside. Hoping that is one of the big fixes, the amp was still hot but stayed on cranking. My box also sounds better by putting it to the back of the trunk facing me the driver, which loses trunk space, but the bass hits better and sounds better in the car, sort of a wierd choice though. This weeken will replace the rest of the wires and give it a good couple hour smashing see if she holds up for me.
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  • Xman357
    Xman357 Posts: 1
    edited February 2012
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    Roswellien wrote: »
    New vid of the subs up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrBqzsfWuo


    So I wanted to know how your amp is holding at 1ohm. Debating whether to wire my subs to 4ohms or 1
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  • Riskay
    Riskay Posts: 9
    edited February 2012
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    Can't tell if I like the plastic vs the solid aluminum(?) body of the old PA line. I guess I'll find out when it gets here. Cost is nice though and so is the size.
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  • towerhand452
    towerhand452 Posts: 2
    edited October 2013
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    I have been installing for several years now and I have found that 6 ga. Aluminum copper aloy wire seems to work best as power cable for both efficiency and and resistance to degrigation!
    Also I run 2 ground cables 1 from batt to amp neg terminal and to second from body of vehicle to body of amp this really helps with keeping amperage consumption down thus alowwing for cooler temperatures. Also use #6 lugs for cable terminations at batt and body. Also I use an rf filter on remote cable using #12 cooper in order to reduce ac hum from alt. If you can afford to do this it is highly recomended as I have had no issues with any amp to include temperature issues and have never upgraded a batt / alt or installed a cap!
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  • towerhand452
    towerhand452 Posts: 2
    edited October 2013
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    I have been installing for several years now and I have found that 6 ga. Aluminum copper aloy wire seems to work best as power cable for both efficiency and and resistance to degrigation!
    Also I run 2 ground cables 1 from batt to amp neg terminal and to second from body of vehicle to body of amp this really helps with keeping amperage consumption down thus alowwing for cooler temperatures. Also use #6 lugs for cable terminations at batt and body. Also I use an rf filter on remote cable using #12 cooper in order to reduce ac hum from alt and cat6 24 ga wire for speakers as it is a solid single strand alowing clean and unrestricted watage delivery. If you can afford to do this it is highly recomended as I have had no issues with any amp and have never upgraded a batt / alt or installed a cap
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