SBT Enhanced Digital Output

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audiocr381ve
audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
edited September 2012 in Going Digital
Wow, this is interesting. Install this third party app and now you do even higher resolution (24/192 as opposed to 24/96) and output 44.1/48 via USB!

Is this old news that I'm just getting hip to? Crazy... I'd like to try my Keces USB only DAC with it and see what happens.

More here: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2012/05/enhanced-digital-output-applet-for-squeezebox-touch/
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited September 2012
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    Just downloaded EDO per John Durko's instructions and it worked PERFECTLY and am now running the SBT's USB output to my USB only Keces DA-151 MKii. It sounds just as good as connecting via USB to my computer. Wow. What a versatile little bugger.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    Wow, this is interesting. Install this third party app and now you do even higher resolution (24/192 as opposed to 24/96) and output 44.1/48 via USB!

    Is this old news that I'm just getting hip to? Crazy... I'd like to try my Keces USB only DAC with it and see what happens.

    More here: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2012/05/enhanced-digital-output-applet-for-squeezebox-touch/

    Alot of those apps are flawed and don't work as described. I tried the toolbox app and it didn't work that well and ended up locking up the SQBT and I had to do factory reset. Try them if you like, at your own risk. So far the reward hasn't been worth the headaches.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited September 2012
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Alot of those apps are flawed and don't work as described. I tried the toolbox app and it didn't work that well and ended up locking up the SQBT and I had to do factory reset. Try them if you like, at your own risk. So far the reward hasn't been worth the headaches.

    H9

    We posted with a minute of each other :) I'm reporting that it does indeed work and sounds really good through the USB output. Amazing, I'm still taken back that all it would take is downloading an app.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    What USB output? You can't alter what comes out of the Keces at the SQB end with an app. If you are using the Keces for D/A conversion you are at the mercy of the hardware in the Keces. Unless you aren't explaining it correctly.

    The SQB doesn't have a USB output.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited September 2012
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    The SQB doesn't have a USB output.

    Yes it does and this app allows the SBT to a USB DAC for D/A conversion. After installation, I can choose the KECES from the SBT menu, it reboots, and then connects to the KECES. The music sounds phenomenal. Maybe even better than connecting the DAC to my iMac.

    Am I missing something? Were you able to use USB DACs with the SBT all along?
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    Also after reading your link, it only works with asynchronous USB's. The Keces is not asynchronous.

    No there is no USB output option with the Touch. Even the third party programmer states he might hear a very slight difference between his applet and the regular touch. My take on it is you are hearing how superior the Keces is to the regular analog output of the Touch.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    The Keces is not capable of outputting hi-rez, the chipset isn't capable. This applet allows one to use a USB dac and if it's asynchronous and is hi-rez capable now so is the Touch apparently. You will always be limited by the analog hardware in the dac.

    It appears this applet doesn't work with the new Tenor TE8802 in the new audio gd's.

    Did you read the article at all? It states all sorts of issues with the different USB dac's. The applet is cool for a singular reason, it allows you to possibly use a USB connection with the SQB. But it appears that depending on what is native and what chipset is used, the performance for higher rez is all over the place.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited September 2012
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    I'm not following you. How am I connecting my USB ONLY DAC to the Squeezebox Touch if the Squeezebox Touch has no USB output?

    915A2490.jpg

    There it is.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    That is a USB input for a thumb drive or hard drive. The applet you downloaded allows that USB connection (if the Keces is connected) to pass digital info. Without the applet the only digital output is coax or toslink, NOT USB.

    Now that the applet allows digital output and hi-rez the dac connected has to be asynchronous and it has to be hi-rez capable as well. The Keces is neither.

    Like I said the cool thing about the applet is it allows a USB dac to be used, but the difference you are hearing is NOT because of hi-rez, but the difference between the internal dac of the Touch and the Keces DAC.

    Follow?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited September 2012
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    That is a USB input for a thumb drive or hard drive. The applet you downloaded allows that USB connection (if the Keces is connected) to pass digital info. Without the applet the only digital output is coax or toslink, NOT USB.

    Now that the applet allows digital output and hi-rez the dac connected has to be asynchronous and it has to be hi-rez capable as well. The Keces is neither.

    Like I said the cool thing about the applet is it allows a USB dac to be used, but the difference you are hearing is NOT because of hi-rez, but the difference between the internal dac conversion of the Touch and the Keces DAC.

    Follow?

    H9

    Yea, lol, but you brought up points that I did not. I didn't say I was listening to hi-rez music. In fact, I only have 1 hi-rez album in my collection.

    What the app does IS turn the USB portion of the SBT into a digital music OUTPUT the same as the coax and toslink. Semantics...

    We're on the same page now :)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    Right and while it does seem to allow for hi-rez (of which you don't have any right now) it still doesn't override what is native to the dac you are using. You can't take a 44.1 dac and magically turn it into a 192 dac with an applet.

    Even at normal cd resolution the Keces is a very solid performer as evidenced by you stating it sounds a lot better than the SQBT.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    Wow, this is interesting. Install this third party app and now you do even higher resolution (24/192 as opposed to 24/96) and output 44.1/48 via USB!

    The way you worded this made it sound like you were expecting to get hi-rez out of the USB dac even if it's natively not capable, so I didn't add any facts to my posts. :smile:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited September 2012
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    The inter phase of the USB makes or breaks the USB performance. It appears this is might be a decent one based on your liking it as much as your computer. However I don't know what you are using on your computer. The earlier Audio GD's don't have as good a USB performance as they do with coax or toslink. The advantage the Keces has is it's designed for USB use only. Meaning if you had an earlier Audio GB even with this applet it might not sound as good as the same dac via coax or toslink.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited September 2012
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Right and while it does seem to allow for hi-rez (of which you don't have any right now) it still doesn't override what is native to the dac you are using. You can't take a 44.1 dac and magically turn it into a 192 dac with an applet.

    Even at normal cd resolution the Keces is a very solid performer as evidenced by you stating it sounds a lot better than the SQBT.

    Totally understand this. I've recorded a few albums so I get the whole sample rate thing.

    So far, it sounds great via USB.

    I do have a DAC that is capable of 24/196, the Channel Islands VDA-2 , and I've had it hooked up to the SBT via glass toslink and blue jeans coax. So far toslink beats out coax on this DAC.

    Here are my comparisons so far:

    SBT > Channel Islands VDA-2 DAC

    VS.

    iMAC (audirvana plus software) > Keces DAC

    The SBT & Channel Islands DAC combo beats out the iMac/Keces combo by a wide margin. Better separation, vocals are fuller, more rich & full all around, and very easy to listen to. The Keces is easy to listen to as well but it's flatter sounding. I should send the VDA-2 your way to try out for a few weeks. I think you'll really like it.

    I've also tried just the SBT analog outs and it wasn't bad at all. Actually quite acceptable. I was surprised. The Keces and VDA-2 were better, but I was surprised none the less.
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