I may have ruined myself...

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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited January 2012
    I have tried to like B&W...I really have. They get lots of rave reviews...but not from me...but I kept thinking maybe there was something I was missing. I can't count the number of times I've demoed or visited someone with a B&W rig...and everytime I walk away not liking what I just heard. Especially at the lower end of their lines. CNH's description is a very good represention of what I hear...very harsh and not pleasing at all to my ears. At the upper end of the B&W spectrum, I just don't feel like the sound is worth the price and is not what I want in my system. Of course that is why there are lots of different kinds and mfgs of speakers...everyone's taste is different.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited January 2012
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    I'm out.

    So what started as one Polk member sharing an experience, turns into an eye poking contest.

    Nice
    ..LMAO..you guys are funny!..But some really good reads going on here..
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    edited January 2012
    Agree Shack, and with the exception of a few models, not my bag either.

    Erik took it personal, akin to calling his baby ugly as we like to say. Just want to assure him we didn't mean to offend.
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  • zoraduntov
    zoraduntov Posts: 25
    edited January 2012
    I was using Polk SDA SRS ll just up until about 2 years then I replaced them with B&W 800D's .
    2,000 to 20,000
    Dynaudio are also great speakers
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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited January 2012
    tonyb wrote: »
    Agree Shack, and with the exception of a few models, not my bag either.

    Erik took it personal, akin to calling his baby ugly as we like to say. Just want to assure him we didn't mean to offend.
    ..tonyb..i know you didn't mean anything bad.I was just reading all the post and have to say they are very good.As for the speakers you guys are talking about?.I am sure they are very good but to rich for my blood.You guys have some top end gear.Us lil guys just try to get by with something in the middle.Great post guys thanks i injoy reading them a lot and learn a lot from them.
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  • dave shepard
    dave shepard Posts: 1,334
    edited January 2012
    Jstas wrote: »
    I'll let Face answer for himself but in my experience, B&W's can have crossover peaks or enclosure peaks that they try to compensate for with crossover trickery. A bunch of it has to do with some of their weirder enclosure designs. B&W is not known for their conservative enclosures like what you find in, say, the 686 bookshelfs. They are known for the fancy globes and odd baffles like the OP's original picture.

    All those odd shapes, they can be engineered and designed out the wazoo but the fact remains that when you start complicating your driver and placement designs like that you start complicating the problems you have as well. They aren't always easy to overcome. That's why the real fancy stuff costs as much as a house or car. It takes a bunch of trickery and prototyping to get things right and if you have a price-point to meet, a bunch of compromising to make the design work well enough.

    The fancy B&W's with complicated baffles providing crazy reflections and resonances that are compensated for with both active and passive crossover trickery often do not sound as clean and pure as more simplistic designs like that Sonus Faber I mentioned above.

    Here's a picture:
    guarneri_memento_pair.jpg

    That's also the "entry level" bookshelf from Sonus Faber's TOTL model series and it's positively orgasmic in audio reproduction. IMO, it's in the top 5 if not the best bookshelf on the market at any price (sorry Polk, the LSi's are VERY good but it's hard to compete with a speaker that costs 6 times what your best bookshelf costs). There's very little coloration, the enclosures are designed very well and feel more like stone than wood and those stands are acoustically dead. They make no sound at all. The baffles are well designed and have predictable reflections. The crossovers are decidedly less complicated than the B&W deals in their TOTL series as well. It ends up being just a cleaner, more balanced sound.

    It's hard to explain on an Innerwebs forum. Listen for yourself and you'll hear what Face is talking about.

    I have to agree with Mantis in that, that is your opion, especally on Sonus Faber. My wife and Mantis and I have done a listening test with Sonus's looking to buy and our opinion's (all 3) were exacally the same they have a forward "in your face" sound presence that we all did not perfer, the "in your face" comment came from my wife at the first 10 seconds upon turning the system on. For my wife and I and Dan it clearly came down to 3 choices and we (my wife and I) spent quite a small fortune (for us) $14k on speakers, I do not wish to disclose which ones we purchased. B&W and Klipch were in the running and the wife still wants the B&W's we listend to that day for stereo. Now I'm not saying that the Faber's have no place or are junk or crappy but for us, they were just hands down out classed, in our opinion.
    It really is a matter of personal preferance, needs and taste. If you find something that takes your breath away and you choose that product and you are happy with the results then that was the correct choice.

    Dave
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited January 2012
    People just need to find what floats their boat. We all drive different cars because we have different tastes. It would suck if we all drove the same car. I can't tell you how many times I've read glowing reviews online about a product and ended up hating the experience with it in real life. Companies are smart too. Don't believe everything you read, you might just be reading something by someone hired to write it. Happens all day everyday. I guarantee some members of this forum are undercover for companies other than Polk (some with high posts counts too) :loneranger:

    Anyway, I hope a newb isn't reading this and thinking "B&W has to suck, look at all these people who hate them!" No freaking way. A lot of people don't like football too!
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited January 2012
    Brother, can you spare a dime.....:sad:


    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u7qoJlc7b7Q&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • Nhpm510
    Nhpm510 Posts: 138
    edited January 2013
    How about the room? Was it acoustically treated? That adds quite a bit of improvement to decent speakers?
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited January 2013
    Nhpm510 wrote: »
    How about the room? Was it acoustically treated? That adds quite a bit of improvement to decent speakers?

    You missed reviving a year old thread by 2 days before the last entry. :smile:
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,782
    edited January 2013
    mantis wrote:
    B&W speakers are one of the worlds worst at any price.

    Fixed it for you.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited January 2013
    I heard a pair of these powered with about $30,00 worth of equipment upstream (from what the salesman was telling me) and they did sound good, but they were not earth shattering to me. I've heard other speakers for far less that I liked better, but that's me. What counts is if they sound great to you than great. Getting out there and hearing different speakers like you are doing is the key. You'll never really know what you like until you get your ears out there and listen to some different stuff.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2013
    If you like beaming upper mids and a ragged treble, B&W's are for you.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    edited January 2013
    Wow...can't believe it's been a year since I was in that shop.

    At the time, I had basically only heard my Monitor 70's so it was a big revalation for me.

    I'm working on getting my ears on as much gear as possible. It is still very fun for me at this point, and I hope it stays that way.
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited January 2013
    ^^There you go, that's a good attitude about it. If it ever gets to the point where it stops becoming fun, then what's the point? I think sometimes in my pursuit of better sound I become so serious (determined is probably a better word) that I lose track of what it is all about. I finally have both of my systems to the point where I just sit down and let the music flow,getting caught up in the music itself and not the equipment. It took a lot of time and experimentation to get there, but I'm glad I did. The experimentation is a lot of fun in itself if you have a tinkering personality like I do.
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  • timalan
    timalan Posts: 106
    edited January 2013
    Yep... and the great part is that no matter what we've heard, our memories are crisp enough to accurately remember the exact sound of any setup, so -- maybe it's the optimist in me -- I always believe we will walk into another room someday and once again be absolutely mesmerized by the sound. For me, the last time I felt that way was a pair of Joseph Audio Perspectives hooked to a bunch of Bel Canto separates. Blew away anything I've ever heard for sheer joy of listening.
    5.1 theater - Pioneer SC-07, Mirage OMD-CC center, 4 x Mirage Omnisats, Boston Acoustics VPS-210 sub
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    2.1 bedroom- Arcam Solo, 2 x Mirage OMD-5's
    FOR SALE - Genesis Servo-10 sub, Genesis Servo-12 amp; Martin Logan Dynamo sub; Mirage MM-6 sub; Harman Kardon DPR-1001 7.1 receiver
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  • timalan
    timalan Posts: 106
    edited January 2013
    The other great part about sound is that there is no perfect set of speakers for all kinds of mood/music/emotion. There are some speakers that will be perfect for female vocals and fall apart on hard rock; perfect for movies but weak for violin solos, etc...

    And no matter how far audio technology grows, there will always be something magical about hearing certain radio recordings off a vintage mono, single-speaker that has a nostalgia and purity that $500K of audio can't capture.
    5.1 theater - Pioneer SC-07, Mirage OMD-CC center, 4 x Mirage Omnisats, Boston Acoustics VPS-210 sub
    2.1 living room - NAD 7400 integrated, 2 x Platinum Audio Duos, MIT Terminator4 cables
    2.1 bedroom- Arcam Solo, 2 x Mirage OMD-5's
    FOR SALE - Genesis Servo-10 sub, Genesis Servo-12 amp; Martin Logan Dynamo sub; Mirage MM-6 sub; Harman Kardon DPR-1001 7.1 receiver
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,981
    edited January 2013
    hochpt21: Was that audio shop the one whose name starts with a "P" or the other one?
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    edited January 2013
    University Audio in Madison
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited January 2013
    I think many of us have had that 'uptown girl':cheesygrin: experience hochp. Several years or more ago I bought a pair of Carver Silvers, like new in box from Audioezra on Audiogon. My wife had the SUV so my bud Norm and I took a ride in my car (about an hour 30 minute ride) to just pay for and pick up later. The guy takes us into his professionaly treated audio room with $125K Magicos. 8 amps on the floor. Big dollar pre and source. Just wow. So when I tell him I'll have to pick the Silvers up later, he says I have to head that way; pay for gas in my sons truck and we'll follow you home. Then he helped me set them up and didn't say that my system sounded like crap compared to his. Quite a nice experience. It didn't take long to get grounded into reality....:cheesygrin:

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