Best Reciever for HT (Under $500)

bansheesho · January 2012

I am looking to replace my reciever because I think my speakers have outgrown the reciever, and I would like more control and adjustability of the equalizer. I bought the current reciever to power a theater in a box system and have since upgraded all the speakers. What I am really looking for is butt kicking HT, but also good quality music.. I think the speakers are there and should be producing pretty good sound, but I can't seem to get it just the way I like it with this reciever... I either setup the EQ manually (only 4 band) and I can get fantastic low sounds that are quite impressive without being boomy, but then alot of times when people are talking it sounds like they are muffled like they are in a box... The other option is to let audyssey take over and then it all sounds really thin and low quality.. I think a good quality reciever would help out a bunch (if not please make suggestions).. I don't want to mess around this time.. I want a big boy reciever that will have all the power and expandability features that I want. From my experience with this onkyo reciever I don't know if I want another of the same brand, but I am open to all suggestions... I am looking to spend $350-$500 and want at least 7.1

My setup is as follows:

Fronts: Polk Monitor 60
Center: Polk cs2
Rears: Polk Monitor 30
Sub: Polk 660wi
Reciever: Onkyo TX-SR506

This Pioneer VSX-1121-K caught my eye, but it is also on the top of my price range..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117401

I don't want to mess around this time, I want something that I will enjoy and that will last.

Please suggest away

Theheadsn · January 2012

Ok, when I say take your time and look, I MEAN IT

check the internet, craigslist, MAYBE ebay, on here. Ask around. hell if you have a frys and a best buy in the area go there. Sometimes even cosco's website. I was able to grab my pioneer sc-37 a few months back for 900 bucks. WAY cheap. You can probably find one for cheaper. Maybe even 500 if your lucky. Look around for a pioneer sc-07, those are rockin as well.

I used to have a 1020k, loved the hell out of it, but I was upset because I didnt have any preouts for an external amp; which at the time i could have cared less about, but alas, the rabbit hole is a deep one lol

Whatever you pick up, look at what you want now and what youll want in the future. Is 3d important? Do you wanna have a second zone to play music? how many things are you hooking up? do you want it to have to video outputs (one for tv and one for a projector)? and especially do you want to be able to hook up an external amp?

Keep your eyes peeled, and dont be afraid to come on here if you see a good deal to get feedback. Polkies are some great people

chumlie · January 2012

The 1121 is a nice reciever or look for a used sc. I would go for a used sc if you can find one.

NewHTguy · January 2012

If you want to stick with new receivers, you may be able to get an Onk 709 for $499. I've seen them as low at $540 at Vanns. I've learned that if you call competitors they will sometimes beat the other price. The 709 is definitely future proof and should be able to power your speakers, while allowing future amp upgrades (it has pre-outs).

Conradicles · January 2012

I would get this one:

gdb · January 2012

If I ever buy a new one, I'll probably opt for something like the Pioneer reviewed in the article linked below.

Happy hunting !

http://www.hypersensory.com/content/3d-receivers-shoot-out-denon-avr-1911-pioneer-vsx-1020-k-onkyo-tx-sr608

One can be had for approx. 1/2 price used and refurbs for a little more.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0039XQQX0%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAIQLQZOWARPZG5GKQ%26tag%3D25topdeals360-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D386001%26creativeASIN%3DB0039XQQX0

Lietuvis91 · January 2012

A few things:

1)

bansheesho wrote: »

I want a big boy reciever that will have all the power and expandability features that I want. I am looking to spend $350-$500

This is not a big boy budget, so you will not get a big boy receiver for that kind of money. Start saving... You'll need around $800-$1000 minimum.

2)
With your particular speaker set, you shouldn't really need much more of a receiver from what you have, if you set it up correctly. Try setting your crossover to 100hz or 120hz for all speakers. In full/low range your receiver doesn't have the juice to push those speakers well, but you have a sub, so you should take that load off the receiver and send it to the one speaker that is specifically designed to handle them(the sub). You will have to turn up the volume on the sub to match. This should clean up your sound quiet a bit and bring voices forward as well as make them clearer.

Good luck!

Sherardp · January 2012

Your so close, if only that budget can be stretched a tad.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/452281

Sherardp · January 2012

Search eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-SC-07-7-1-Channel-140-Watt-Receiver-/130635877014?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-SC-37-Receiver-Refurbished-3D-ICEpower-/170771606453?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item27c2c7ebb5#ht_3002wt_922

tonyb · January 2012

How big is your room ? What cables are you using ? Buy used, you'll get a better receiver for the coin.

cfrizz · January 2012

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

A few things:

1)

This is not a big boy budget, so you will not get a big boy receiver for that kind of money. Start saving... You'll need around $800-$1000 minimum. Good luck!

+10 on this statement. Don't be in a rush and save more money and get a much better receiver, and make sure you get one with preouts for a separate amp later on, since that is the only thing that will let your speakers operate to their full potential.

bansheesho · January 2012

This is not a big boy budget

I would like to play with the medium boys then... (ummm maybe needs a rephrase)... Anyway I have kind of been stringing m wonderful wife along the audio ride.. First it was "I just need some good front speakers" Then it was the center channel then all I need is this nice sub and I will be happy....... then the rear channels. She has been gracious enough to indulge me so far and is still along for the ride, but I think she is thingking more like $400 so I am already stretching it a bit.

That being said I don't want to take a step sideways and regret not buying something that will make me happy, so if I need to spend more like $600 to do it then I guess I will have to.

Try setting your crossover to 100hz or 120hz for all speakers.

I have tried this and it sounds great for music, but not so much for HT. If I set the crossover there then I get boomy sound from the sub a lot during male voices and random ambient sounds are amplified and it becomes really annoying, I can combat that by turning the sub level down, but then I miss out on the cool explosions and helicopters and all the reasons that I wanted a good sub to begin with... I want to feel the music and soundtrack... not just listen to it... but I want to feel it at a resonable volume and with good quality and clarity. (I am probably hoping to get too much from what I have)

How big is your room ?

The listening area is not very big.. roughly 18' x 13' but it is open to a kitchen that is roughly the same size.

The 1121 is a nice reciever or look for a used sc. I would go for a used sc if you can find one.

Ok.. You all have caught my attention with the SC recievers.. Why specifically do you recommend them? I see that most of them have 140w/ch amps plus a bunch of pre-outs. I don't plan on doing 3d any time soon as that would require a bunch of stuff to get changed like the blue ray player and tv... plus I dont really care to watch it until they perfect the tech without glasses in which case everything will probably be obsolete anyway.. But I would like to run the audio sources directly to the reciever first through hdmi instead of everything to the tv then to the reciever via optical. I would like at least the capability of 7.1 incase we move.

What models of SC would you recommend to keep an eye out for? So far SC-07, SC-27, 37 whats the difference?

bansheesho · January 2012

I should also mention that I have a second router setup on the media fireplace mantle as a repeater bridge, so there is wired ethernet available. That being said I already have 3 or 4 devices that can stream music over the network, so that is not a huge deal to me either. If I were to go used I would like to buy something that is not too old.. I would like to be relevant for as long as possible and also not die on me.

gdb · January 2012

Did you check the links in post #6 ? Seems to me like that pioneer might just be right up your alley, judging from what you seem to need/want in your budget range. Or not.:biggrin:

chumlie · January 2012

SC's have better built and more powerful amp saction. Differance between 07-27-37-57 is the model # year. this year sc57, last year was sc37. Also has better build quality. The sc's are Pioneer's top line reciever. Preouts if you ever want to add an external amp in the future. If interested in sc line. You may want to look at the sc-35 too. Basicly same as the sc-37. You can see the differance at Pioneer's web site.

EndersShadow · January 2012

I am going to suggest you look at a AVR with Audyssey MultiEQ XT (like the Onkyo 709, or Marantz models).

It sounds like its more about EQ than power/more connections. Like me your still running Audyssey 2EQ which doesnt have nearly the amount of filters built in when you run it, nor does it EQ the sub.

Check out the chart on the bottom of this page to see the differences between the versions: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

The Onkyo 709 has more HDMI's in, 2 outs (for a TV + projector), upscales, has pre-outs and better EQ. It might not have more power than your 506 by much, but you can augment that with a good 3 channel amp if you need it (which I dont think you do given the efficiency of your speaker).

If you are OK with manufacture authorized refurbs, Accessories4less is both a Marantz and Onkyo authorized vendor. The 709 refurbished model is under 500 (though you can get a new one from Crutchfield for like 600). The refurbs come with a warranty (depending on manufacture)

You also may be dealing with room issues, so I would suggest you post some pics of your layout so we can see if maybe that has something to do with things. You can change your speakers, receiver, power all you want, but you cant change the layout of your room (with exceptions). Plus if your sitting in a null it wont matter what gear you have

.

gdb · January 2012

Another.....
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-1121-K-Theater-Receiver-Glossy/dp/B004M8RPBS/ref=zg_bs_3213035011_8

bansheesho · January 2012

I noticed all the sc-x5 models have 130w/ch amps... I gotta be completely honest... $600 at the tops is probably my limit, and I am going to be freaked out on at that price. (But I think it will be worth it)

I am keeping my eye on that used sc-07, but if anyone bids besides me its out of my price range (actually it is already with shipping).

I found this one somewhat locally on craigslist

Pioneer VSX-92TXH Elite Reveiver - $550
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/ele/2811126237.html

It appears to have the 130 w/ch amp that the sc-x5 models have, but I may be mistaken. I did notice that it is lacking a bit on the HDMI connections 3in/1out compared to others, but I only have 2.5 devices that connect to it via hdmi (blue ray, cable box, and sometimes the laptop via a long hdmi cord) The xbox connects via component because it is one of the earlier versions... but thats not to say that at some point in the future there may be a gamming system that connects via hdmi... of course there is always 3 more hdmi inputs on the tv so I could still connect less important devices like I am connecting them now if I have extras later on.

The major advantage here being I wouldn't have to pay for shipping, I could make sure it works before I buy it, and I wouldn't have to worry about shipping damage.

Any thoughts on this... or this compared to others in the elite series?

Being objective (on a subjective subject)... how much improvment would be noticed going from my current onkyo tx-sr506 to one similar to this in power?

gudnoyez · January 2012

Have you considered used? That Denon 3808CI that is for sale in the forum by tboo for $420 is a sweet deal, those went for $1500new a few years back, thats staying in your budget if it's in the condition he says its in go for that, if I had an extra $420 I would buy it.

Glowrdr · January 2012

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?128665-HT-Gear

$550 is a great price for something you can be confident works, and was treated well.

gudnoyez · January 2012

Glowrdr wrote: »

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?128665-HT-Gear

$550 is a great price for something you can be confident works, and was treated well.

That would be a good buy, I thought blueboxer snatched that one up, if he did'nt thats another good deal.

flyfisher · January 2012

Glowrdr wrote: »

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?128665-HT-Gear

$550 is a great price for something you can be confident works, and was treated well.

I was just going to link that after browsing the for sale section this morning lol.A great deal that is.I picked up my 05 last month for that price and love it.Grab it now!

bansheesho · January 2012

Here are some pics of the listening area. The room is setup very akward for placing things properly, but I did what I thought was best.. My 2 main concerns on the speaker placement is that the right front speaker is partially blocked by the couch and that the center channel is kind of tucked into that cubby hole and it has a rear firing port. Not sure how much this matters.. maybe a lot maybe not, but in either case I am certain it will have to come out of its spot when I get the new reciever. I was debating if I should mount it on a stand with the top of it about level with the fronts or if I should mount it above the tv pointing down. The second option would be more clean looking and keep it out of the way, but how would it sound? I also noticed that children seem to be magnetized towards speakers, I am always cringing when my friends kids or my nephews come over.. I have a boy due in June, so I have to start thinking about safety too... when it gets closer to that time I will probably flip the sub over to protect it... I think it sounds slightly better the way it is, but it wouldnt sound very good at all with a hole in it.

It sounds like its more about EQ

I am very frustrated with the crappy quality from the auto setup mic, and I can't seem to make it play as rich and full while still being as clear as I would like with the 4 band EQ ... I have a feeling that part of that problem is the lack of power to make the speakers hit the lower-mid frequencies at the level and quality that I am expecting. I could be wrong though.. What I do know is that I have an entry level reciever paired with mid level speakers and an upper-mid sub and that it dosent sound to me like it has reached its potential..

cnh · January 2012

That Pioneer VSX 1121 would do you in a room like that in the 5-600 dollar NEW price range.

Good features, decent power, good processing and pre-outs for future amplification upgrades. Though to be honest, your room is not that big and the speaker set you have is not hard to power so the Pioneer by itself would suffice for now!

Don't over think it! Pioneer and Onkyo rule that price point. Get the one that serves you best and enjoy!

cnh

EndersShadow · January 2012

bansheesho wrote: »

I am very frustrated with the crappy quality from the auto setup mic, and I can't seem to make it play as rich and full while still being as clear as I would like with the 4 band EQ ... I have a feeling that part of that problem is the lack of power to make the speakers hit the lower-mid frequencies at the level and quality that I am expecting.

First of all nice room! Secondly it seems to be setup pretty good given what you have to work with.

When your listening to music are you listening to it with all your speakers or just your front 2? I ask because in my Integra (very similar to your Onkyo) there is a setting called "Direct" or "Stereo". That setting turns off all but either just the front 2 (direct) or all but the front 2 + sub (stereo). That might "help" give you extra juice for the 60's as they do need power to really do their best. That might help you out.

My suggestion would be to re-run the autocal and leave it in place, but then when listening to music put your AVR on direct or stereo and see if that helps a little with what you feel your lacking.

Regarding a new AVR see below

cnh wrote: »

That Pioneer VSX 1121 would do you in a room like that in the 5-600 dollar NEW price range.

Good features, decent power, good processing and pre-outs for future amplification upgrades. Though to be honest, your room is not that big and the speaker set you have is not hard to power so the Pioneer by itself would suffice for now!

Don't over think it! Pioneer and Onkyo rule that price point. Get the one that serves you best and enjoy!

+1.

Lastly I thought I should comment on the 60's themselves. I recently got mine connected to a Harman Kardon 3490 stereo receiver and found that they do come to life with both a little extra power, but also that cables matter. I switched the coaxial cable I was using and suddenly I started getting lots more bass from my setup.

So depending on how you get from your music source to your AVR, dont be afraid to try some different things as well, although I think the Onkyo may be some of your problem.

Lastly if you get that SC-05, you shouldnt have need for a dedicated amp in the foreseeable future IMHO.

bansheesho · January 2012

I should also mention that in my current setup the front channel is bi-amped so I am trying to feed them as much as I can. I do switch between listening modes for music vs ht... I enjoy some of the spacial effects that having it run through all the speakers adds, and I know this is not helping the lack of power that the current reciever has.. If I put it into stero it helps a bit but it still isnt completely there..

I am having serious debates wether to go with a new 1121 that has all the updated connectivity/3d and a full warranty but 20-30w/ch less

or

Wait and find a used sc-xx with 130-140w/ch and a class d amp, but I have to spend the time and energy and extra money... Plus it has less connectivity and no warranty... I am wondering if the sc is worth the extra baggage vs the 1121

As far as cables go... I have heard many people using banana clips. I just use the screw on nuts that came with it, and here is my theory on that. Comming from an automotive background I feel that having a screwed down connection would provide a more secure connection and less objects to possibly interfere with the signal... it is certainly harder to remove and to install the cables. With the banana you are making at least 4 more possible weak points per speaker plus the connection itself does not seem as secure. Please feel free to shoot holes in this theory.. that is why I am here asking questions

I think at this point I need to go try to find at least the 1121 to listen to and compare vs onkyo, denon, yamaha.... idk if I will be able to listen to a sc locally

EndersShadow · January 2012

bansheesho wrote: »

I should also mention that in my current setup the front channel is bi-amped

Undo that as its not "really" doing anything.

Loud & Clear · January 2012

In my experience receiver jumping never changed the sound to any large extent. More subtle. If you're not happy with how your speakers sound, well, I think you should strongly consider selling your M60s and using your new budget to find a pair of speakers that you can really enjoy. I noticed some subtle changes in sound between Denon, Sony, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, but nothing that would make speakers that previously didn't sound good suddenly start sounding great. Good luck.

Lietuvis91 · January 2012

bansheesho wrote: »

I have tried this and it sounds great for music, but not so much for HT. If I set the crossover there then I get boomy sound from the sub a lot during male voices and random ambient sounds are amplified and it becomes really annoying, I can combat that by turning the sub level down, but then I miss out on the cool explosions and helicopters and all the reasons that I wanted a good sub to begin with... I want to feel the music and soundtrack... not just listen to it... but I want to feel it at a resonable volume and with good quality and clarity. (I am probably hoping to get too much from what I have)

I understand your frustration, trying to make an underpowered receiver work is no easy task. BUT! I think it's still doable.

First, set everything to 120hz and check your phase setting on the sub? It should be zero, or nearly zero. Second, it doesn't looks like you have much room to reposition the sub, but the position of the sub does make a big difference in how it fills the room. I never had any luck with mine sitting where yours is. Try to push it all the way into the left corner if you can. This should help to distribute/spread the bass through the room better. Corner loading does work

Then pick a movie and replay some action scene and adjust the sub volume to whatever makes sense. I firmly believe you can get this done bud.

I fought this battle with my onkyo 608, and after much playing and tweaking i hit the sweet spot. I still got new gear later, but it was for the sake of something different, not because I rally had to.

For music, you should be running the system in stereo mode, so for music purposes turn the sub off and set the fronts to full range. See how you like that.

I have never really made a system work equally good for HT and Music listening. I find myself changing settings based on what I am doing at the time.

Lietuvis91 · January 2012

Loud & Clear wrote: »

In my experience receiver jumping never changed the sound to any large extent. More subtle. If you're not happy with how your speakers sound, well, I think you should strongly consider selling your M60s and using your new budget to find a pair of speakers that you can really enjoy. I noticed some subtle changes in sound between Denon, Sony, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, but nothing that would make speakers that previously didn't sound good suddenly start sounding great. Good luck.

This is very true, so if you end up giving up on trying to make the current setup work, I agree with replacing the speakers first. Althought if you do get the money together for an sc pioneer then it should make quiet a big difference. That is one of the most affordable BIG-er boy receivers you can get. Many here have them and swear by them. It will work great with ANY speakers you get later down the line.

I'm rocking out to my lsi9s right now, 2 channel music, 120hz crossover, the sub is handling it's business filling in the rest quiet nicely. :cheesygrin:

I do have a VERY nice sub cable that helped my system get rid of the "boominess".

larry777 · January 2012

Yes, that SC-05 for $550 and Denon 3808 for $420 in the F/S section are great Bang for the Buck receivers. Better than paying for a new one with less Power and Build Quality.

Best Reciever for HT (Under $500)

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