2-ohm stable amps ???

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Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,396
    edited November 2011
    pearsall001 wrote: »
    Just pick up a bad **** Krell & be done with it.

    For under a grand? Doubtful.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited November 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    For under a grand? Doubtful.

    H9

    Might be able to find an old KSA for close to that, but it'd almost definitely need new caps. The KAV's will probably be stable at 2 ohm, but aren't going to have the Krell "double watts on half impedance" and can also be found for close to that.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited November 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Personally, with the VTL and NAD I think you'll be just fine unless you are constantly at the limit. I do believe you may be over thinking this too much. Do the mod, try it with what you already own and then evaluate. I'm quite sure both pieces have built in protection if they can't handle the load or it just won't sound as good as before.

    H9

    You're probably right with my 2B's, but looking ahead I'm sure I will replace the inductors in my SRS 2's that are more power hungry. They're already at 3.5 ohms DCR with the stock inductors, and I will probably use Solen 10AWG replacements that will really drop the load. Again, I realize dynamic impedance listening to music is more variable than DCR, but the writing on the wall is for a beefier amp.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,396
    edited November 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    I realize dynamic impedance listening to music is more variable than DCR, but the writing on the wall is for a beefier amp.

    Then most likely you'll need to pony up some $$$. I just don't think $1K or less is going to get the job done. :lol:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited November 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Then most likely you'll need to pony up some $$$. I just don't think $1K or less is going to get the job done. :lol:

    H9

    That's kind of where I think I'm headed. I'm really happy with my modded CJ PV-5. It's components are completely upgraded to 2011 standards, it's a tad more neurtral than when original, and it responds incredibly well to tube rolling. It will do a great job with an SS amp.

    As much as I love the VTL tube amp, I'm probably at the point I should sell it and pony up for a solid state "keeper". The NAD with it's upgrades will go strong for another decade, but it is still a 150wrms @ 8 ohm design.

    I'm really thankful for all of the input and great ideas people have contributed so far!
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited November 2011
    Also check out Mark Levinson.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1325945315&/Mark-Levinson-No.-331.5-dual-m

    more than 1K but def a good amp.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1324857326&/Mark-Levinson-No.23.5-power-am

    I think that one is also 2 ohm stable, yet again more money though.

    heres a krell

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1325363819&/Krell-KSA-250-

    however not sure if these are common ground amps or not. I don't think the Krell but not sure about the ML's
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,065
    edited November 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Wow! Now there's a company I never heard of that looks to be absolutely top-shelf.

    http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com

    Never heard of them ?? Most people who own some Sanders amps don't let go of them too often. When was the last time you saw some on Audiogon ? Like never. Good amps for those power hungry speakers. Mind you they aren't the only ones, but never heard anyone complain about them.
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 9,078
    edited November 2011
    tonyb wrote: »
    Sanders

    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Wow! Now there's a company I never heard of that looks to be absolutely top-shelf.

    http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com

    The bottom amp is a Sanders ESL amp.:cheesygrin: It runs my ESL panels. The top one is an InnerSound active crossover bass amp.

    ampstand_2.jpg

    The InnerSound MK II amp was similar in design (300WPC @ 8) and sold for $3K new, and ~$1500 used....until Roger raised the price on his Sanders ESL amp to $4K. His ESL amp has a larger toroidal and better transistors which boosted the output to 360 @ 8 and will safely run a 2 Ohm load. He says his newest MK II offering will safely drive a 1/3 Ohm load. These amps were based on Coda designs. No protection circuitry and he added 10 transistors per channel for 20 per channel total.

    Roger is a top shelf guy to deal with too. He has helped me in the past with repair tips for some older InnerSound Eros MK I and MK II speakers. He offers a 30 day free trail for his gear. Sometimes he has some nice used gear of all brands, amps included.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited November 2011
    Just had a slap-the-forehead moment: Adcom 565's can handle 2ohms no problem and are worth taking for a whirl regardless. If they've been recapped, they're one of the best bargains for under $1k. You're definitely going to want to keep that tubed pre-, they can be a bit harsh.

    You'll need to strap the negative terminals and the chassis of the two amps to make them common ground, but they'll do the trick for your budget.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited November 2011
    I was hoping this thread would help me out personally, and also turn into a resource for future reference by those who need amps that can dig deep.

    You guys have been great with your suggestions and I think we have a great thread going here!

    For my needs, about a day after I decided to commit to the 3K level, I had the rug pulled out from underneath and am back in the bargain-hunting department. I've pretty much decided to target the (now discontinued) Parasound HCA-2200II.

    My wife learned the military base on Okinawa where her dad (Full-Bird Colonel, Chaplain) was stationed in the early '70's is being returned to Japan. He can fly free space-available and get Colonel's quarters billeting for a song, so all is needed is airfare for my wife and 2 brothers (I'm sitting this one out). 2K of my budget just went to United!
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited November 2011
    How about one of the Class D Audio amps? I haven't heard them, but prices seem fair, and most class D architecture can dig deep if I remember correctly. They seem to be made here with is cool, and available in kits or amps which is a nice option. I know the custom IcePower amp I built for my father-in-law sounds great on his LSi15s, so Polk and class D seems to be a good fit in my book. However, you would have to ask them about the common ground issue as that seems to vary on all class D amps.
    Jake
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited November 2011
    I wouldn't use those amps for 2 channel, they're non-linear in the high frequencies.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,981
    edited November 2011
    tonyb wrote: »
    Never heard of them ?? Most people who own some Sanders amps don't let go of them too often. When was the last time you saw some on Audiogon ? Like never. Good amps for those power hungry speakers. Mind you they aren't the only ones, but never heard anyone complain about them.

    Never heard of them and they are about a 20 minute drive from me!!
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited November 2011
    zingo wrote: »
    How about one of the Class D Audio amps? I haven't heard them, but prices seem fair, and most class D architecture can dig deep if I remember correctly. They seem to be made here with is cool, and available in kits or amps which is a nice option. I know the custom IcePower amp I built for my father-in-law sounds great on his LSi15s, so Polk and class D seems to be a good fit in my book. However, you would have to ask them about the common ground issue as that seems to vary on all class D amps.

    I've heard class D is OK for a subwoofer, but never to use them for full 20-20,000 Hz audio.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 9,078
    edited November 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Never heard of them and they are about a 20 minute drive from me!!

    I went out to dinner with Roger when he was up here for a Chicago Audio Society meeting. He had and may still have everything made around there too, a regular cottage industry. From populating the circuit boards of the electronics to machining the curved transmission line bass modules for his speakers. IIRC the only thing he had sent overseas was the CNC cutting of the slots in the stators. A high value die-electric material is cast around the wire frame in the stators and slots must be machined between them without exposing the grid. Roger actually invented the first curved panel stator for an ESL, but went back to flat panels and thus narrow dispersion. He has been messing with ESL's and amps to drive them for near 40 years.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited November 2011
    Lots of great suggestions have been given.

    I've become very interested in the Odyssey Stratos Stereo Amp outfitted with the "Extreme" option (70 lbs.!!) when I learned it is stable into 1 ohm after speaking with Klaus (http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-stereo.html).

    The transferable 20 year warranty also fascinates me. Klaus is pretty certain his work will stand the test of time (and anything else I guess) with a guarantee like that.

    I know quite a few here own Odyssey's and am curious as to what preamps are being used and sound quality. I would be pairing the Extreme with my heavily updated Conrad-Johnson PV5 tube pre.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited November 2011
    I've heard nothing but good things about Odyssey, and they seem to be well priced.
    Jake
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited November 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Lots of great suggestions have been given.

    I've become very interested in the Odyssey Stratos Stereo Amp outfitted with the "Extreme" option (70 lbs.!!) when I learned it is stable into 1 ohm after speaking with Klaus (http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-stereo.html).

    The transferable 20 year warranty also fascinates me. Klaus is pretty certain his work will stand the test of time (and anything else I guess) with a guarantee like that.

    I know quite a few here own Odyssey's and am curious as to what preamps are being used and sound quality. I would be pairing the Extreme with my heavily updated Conrad-Johnson PV5 tube pre.

    Several years ago I was biamping some DeF Tech BP 30's with a Carver TFM-42 (375 wpc) on the lows and a TFM 24(225 wpc) on the highs. The TFM 24 died so I used the 42 to drive the speakers full range. I wanted to continue biamping and I came across the Odyssey Stratos, which I thought I would use for the highs.

    I explained my situation to Klaus and he thought the Stratos Stereo Plus (w/ the cap upgrade) would sound better driving the speakers full range by itself than using the TFM 42 and it together. I ordered it and connected it in place of the TFM 24 (with the TFM 42 still driving the low end). The system sounded pretty good. Then I decided to try Klaus' suggestion. I was very skeptical as I was going from a combined 425 wpc to a nominal 150 wpc.

    Damn if he wasn't right! The Odyssey was cleaner, with a more poweful sound than when I used both Carvers or the Carver and the Odyssey. It had better control of the speakers and better imaging.

    A few years later I decided to go with a tube pre, and picked up the Odyssey Candela. Very happy with this combo.

    They also offer great upgrade paths, and a 20 year transferrable warranty.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,396
    edited November 2011
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1326231464&/Pass-Labs-Aleph-30-Tube-like-s

    You missed out on this one

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited January 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1326231464&/Pass-Labs-Aleph-30-Tube-like-s

    You missed out on this one

    H9

    . . . and a few minutes ago this one too.

    I tapped out at $1,225+ delivered and it went for $1,336 delivered . . .

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/290657899922?
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited January 2012
    I have a set of monoblocks for sale that are 2 ohm stable - 180,000 uf of current, two transformers per amp :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited January 2012
    VR3 wrote: »
    I have a set of monoblocks for sale that are 2 ohm stable - 180,000 uf of current, two transformers per amp :)

    Are you able to strap those to work with SDA's?
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited January 2012
    I'm also curious if you know if either or both of these are common ground?
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited January 2012
    I know the amps themselves are common ground - whether you can strap them or not... not sure.

    I can call Klaus and ask him if you are interested of course... :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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