Pioneer Elite SC-35 + Adcom + RTi A9= Great!

Drenis · August 2011

SRTer wrote: »

As for a listening to your audio and adjusting the EQ at the same time, this will not happen with a Toshlink or HDMI. There is no way to do that period. Yes, that sucks big time.

I'm curious though because previously before I built my HTPC to handle ALL audio/video through HDMI via my GPU, I ran a HDMI line to an assignable input for video and a Toshlink from my sound card to an assignable input and I was able to access MCACC without sound interruption. I just never tried to change any EQ settings while it was playing.

I'm going to experiment tonight possibly and report back. Because in all honesty, It's a PITA to try and properly adjust an EQ where you can't hear the results as your making adjustments.

I wonder if this is rectified in 2011 series Elite receivers (VSX-21/23's were 2010 with HDMI 1.3).

SRTer · August 2011

B Run wrote: »

Those are the only things about my new Elite that really bug me, plus there's no hdmi overlay for volume or listening mode. I think when you spend that much for good equipment that's not too much to ask for. Coming from an Onkyo 3008 with Audyssey mulitq xt32 it's not even in the same ballpark. I like the sound, power and the reliability of Pioneer better than the Onkyo though.

I here that the Audyssey program is not as flexible with adjustments. Something about not being able to adjust everything if you run the calibration.

I have not had a receiver with Audyssey but I will tell you this. The Harmon/Kardon AVR254 automatic calibration does not touch the MCACC, period.

tonyb · August 2011

I know in my elite vsx21 you can adjust the eq settings on the fly, whats the problem ?

If your having SQ issues, playing music from a computer straight into a receiver isn't getting you anywhere. Just my .02

Drenis · August 2011

tonyb wrote: »

I know in my elite vsx21 you can adjust the eq settings on the fly, whats the problem ?

If your having SQ issues, playing music from a computer straight into a receiver isn't getting you anywhere. Just my .02

With the same HDMI input source uninterrupted?

Can you elaborate on that? A computer, if setup to do so, is transmitting a digital file source through a digital cable to the receiver for decoding. Isn't the rule of thumb to keep the source as original as possible to the final destination for playback?

SRTer · August 2011

Drenis wrote: »

I'm going to experiment tonight possibly and report back. Because in all honesty, It's a PITA to try and properly adjust an EQ where you can't hear the results as your making adjustments.

I just listen and listen. Make notes on certain songs saying to increase or decrease certain freqs till the sound is good and low and high volume.

Just write down the whole EQ band setting from one of your auto cals, then go under a new preset that has no auto cal on it, so everything will be flat with no attenuation, s-wave, nothing. Totally unchanged.

I input the EQ curve one frequency at a time on the main L/R speakers to match the EQ curve from the auto calibration. Listen, then adjust from there to bring a sound that is pleasing to your ears a low and high volume.

This works for me. Try it and let me know what you think.

SRTer · August 2011

tonyb wrote: »

I know in my elite vsx21 you can adjust the eq settings on the fly, whats the problem ?

My SC-35 stops the iPod or my iPhone when adjusting the EQ. The song continues but the sound is replaced with a noise tone that the MCACC uses to do the auto calibration.

My old Pioneer Elite VSX-23 my have operated the same way but I can't remember.

tonyb · August 2011

Drenis wrote: »

With the same HDMI input source uninterrupted?

Can you elaborate on that? A computer, if setup to do so, is transmitting a digital file source through a digital cable to the receiver for decoding. Isn't the rule of thumb to keep the source as original as possible to the final destination for playback?

All digital files are not created equal. For instance, a MP3 file,while digital,doesn't compare to flac,Wav, or even MP4.
Also, how your receiver handles a digital file is also of concern. The old saying of "garbage in,garbage out" applies.

I can play the exact same song in a digital format 24/96, and play the exact song again on a lesser format, a cd, and the cd will kick it's **** every time. That being just through the receiver,and a cdp for comparison. So source does matter. That said, to get better SQ from a computer, you'll need one of the higher digital formats, and a dac, to come close to a cdp's performance. Thats my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

B Run · August 2011

SRTer wrote: »

I just listen and listen. Make notes on certain songs saying to increase or decrease certain freqs till the sound is good and low and high volume.

Just write down the whole EQ band setting from one of your auto cals, then go under a new preset that has no auto cal on it, so everything will be flat with no attenuation, s-wave, nothing. Totally unchanged.

I input the EQ curve one frequency at a time on the main L/R speakers to match the EQ curve from the auto calibration. Listen, then adjust from there to bring a sound that is pleasing to your ears a low and high volume.

This works for me. Try it and let me know what you think.

I took your advice and spent some time in the manual MCACC section tweaking some things. My biggest complaint was dialogue was very shallow and empty or hollow sounding i guess. I tried symmetry vs all channels adj vs front allign, then manually tweaked my center eq. It's not 100% of the way there but it's definitely better than it was. I'll keep trying, and I appreciate the advice.

SRTer · August 2011

B Run wrote: »

My biggest complaint was dialogue was very shallow and empty or hollow sounding i guess. It's not 100% of the way there but it's definitely better than it was. I'll keep trying, and I appreciate the advice.

There is magic in MCACC calibration tool. The set it a forget it mind state can ruin your experience with the MCACC.

I learned this when switching from my four RTi8's to RTi A9's and A7's. The MCACC sounded absolutely great with the RTi8's and CSi A6 without only one problem. If you do the auto calibration, it will set all speakers to LARGE (full range) and then EQ the center with too much bass in the 63Hz slider region. You should always check for this because it happen without fail everytime the cal was ran. RTi8's or RTi A5's should be ran with a crossover as well as the CSi A6 which will disable the 63Hz slider. Therefore, you will never have to deal with too much bass in the center channel.

Once I got the RTi A9's, the auto calibration made them sound lean on the bass which is where this speaker excels over the RTi A5. So I had to add a +4.0 in the 63Hz slider and sloped the neighboring sliders nicely to the mid range which is almost flat as a ruler (on or near 0). This really sounded best for my music listening pleasure and even better when watching movies because the mains now help shake the room as well as the powered sub.

I fine that the MCACC is great on speakers without as much full range potential as the RTi A9's but it was perfect on the RTi A5 type speaker.

If you want, I could post my EQ to see if you like the way it sounds as you experiment. I know we have different rooms, but it could be a nice starting point.

After you put the time in, you will be shocked at how the adjustablilty allows you to fine tune to your liking.

B Run · August 2011

Yeah that'd be good, I know the Csi5 and Csi A6 are pretty close in specs, everything is crossed at 80hz, and the towers and rears sound great. When I manually checked the eq for my center the 125hz was like -4.5 and the bass was sloped down from the mids, the treble was a little too high as well. I adjusted it to almost flat and it has a much fuller sound with vocals now.

SRTer · August 2011

B Run wrote: »

Yeah that'd be good, I know the Csi5 and Csi A6 are pretty close in specs, everything is crossed at 80hz, and the towers and rears sound great. When I manually checked the eq for my center the 125hz was like -4.5 and the bass was sloped down from the mids, the treble was a little too high as well. I adjusted it to almost flat and it has a much fuller sound with vocals now.

Well, here we go.

I set the EQ for the center off of music. This may not work for your room or your taste. Disclaimer out of the way...

Now, the curve.

125Hz = +1.0, 250Hz = +0.5, 500Hz = 0.0, 1kHz = +1.0, 2kHz = -1.0,

4kHz = -0.5, 8kHz = -1.0, 16k = -2.5

This curve is with a 80Hz crossover so there is not a 63Hz selection. If you are running your center (LARGE) full range, I test 63Hz @ 0.0 and lower which sounded best and will not damage the speaker. However, it seems to muddy the mid range vocals a bit.

You can see that some of the treble is taken out of the center CSi A6. Not only my ears have found the center is little bright beyond my likes, but the reviewer in Home Theater Mag felt the same. I won't get rid of a speaker for that, I will just adjust the EQ for it. However, i know some people would rather buy a different speaker.

I have applied similar curves to my towers. It has taken some time but I feel the results are great. The MCACC lets you experiment till your tired.

Hope this work for you or get you in a ballpark of a sound you will like.

B Run · August 2011

I'll give it a try tomorrow, thanks for taking the time to post that!

Drenis · August 2011

So I tested out my theory and just to clarify, when using Toshlink input that's assigned, you can access MCACC and music continues to play. However, EQ still knocks out music for static noise. But speaker/cross over changes while music is playing is nice.

SRTer · August 2011

Drenis wrote: »

So I tested out my theory and just to clarify, when using Toshlink input that's assigned, you can access MCACC and music continues to play. However, EQ still knocks out music for static noise. But speaker/cross over changes while music is playing is nice.

This is also the same for using the iPod connection with a iPod or iPhone. The part that sucks is the static noise once in the EQ. I wish the noise was optional.

Drenis · August 2011

SRTer wrote: »

This is also the same for using the iPod connection with a iPod or iPhone. The part that sucks is the static noise once in the EQ. I wish the noise was optional.

Makes me wish I didn't sell my Technics EQ. I could have connected it between my AVR and Amp. I wish AVR's today still have a Monitor loop integrated or an option to run an external EQ. :mad:

Pioneer Elite SC-35 + Adcom + RTi A9= Great!

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