SDA 1B Long review / story

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jdhdiggs
jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
edited March 2004 in 2 Channel Audio
SDA 1B:

Short review summary:

These things rock, placement and room environment can make them better. The soundstage is far wider than the speaker placement.

Other Pics/Russ' Thread

Experience:

I have listened about 8 hours really critically and an additional 6 or so as background music. The music ranged all over the place as I tried to listen to at least 3 tracks from at least two different artists from Jazz, Rock, Classical, Alternative, Rock, and Pop in addition to some DVD’s in two channel.

Setup (equip): Carver A500, JVC disc changer, and 'borrowed' the Adcom SLC505. The only permanent member of the two-channel config will be the amp and the 1B’s (Hopefully I’ll find a good passive that has more than one input…)

Setup (room):
After Russ left, I had the rest of the day to work on placement and room set-up. The room itself is 11X13 with 2 doorways and plantation blinds/windows down the other long wall. Originally a dining room, I acquired the room as the “media” room. The intitial setup from when Russ left was pretty decent, but I wanted to tweak the room a bit. By moving out the bookcase from the side of the speaker, I found that the imaging was improved at the expense of a little bass, additionally all bass room nodes seem to have disappeared. To me, this was an agreeable tradeoff.

The second experiment came on moving the left speaker out to try an move the sweet spot onto the love seat. By moving the speaker midway between the wall and TV, I was able to regain some of the bass lost from the bookshelf move and move center stage to the right speaker on the TV.

My carpet does not allow the speakers to be completely stable and flat yet so I tried aligning different heights of the speaker from the wall with a tape measure. Best results cam from the bottom of the lowest tweeters being aligned

Future: Carpet spikes or large tile will need to be added to completely level out the speakers

Impressions:

These things sounded good when Russ left, after tweaking, they are starting to sound great. The sound quality and imaging among the best speakers that I’ve heard and probably the best that I have had extensive time with. (This includes the 15K+ Snell/Thiel setup a roommate in college had.)

At present, I have “stereo” imaging from directly from my left to about 45 degrees from the center on the right. (135 degree or so right now). For some reason the left channel images much deeper than the right, but there are some exceptions (My wife feels it’s the reverse…). I’m hoping this will be “fixed” once the speakers are leveled. (I want 180+ and think I can get it)

Well recorded material sounds great, like the artist is in the room with you. Poorly recorded tracks sound exactly like they were recorded-poor. The best SDA affects, excluding the Telarc’s “Great Fantasy Album was from Linkin Park, “Hybrid Theory” on track 11, after the intro, the words “and now a lesson in rhythm management” come on and then all hell breaks loose. The artificial beats travel all over the room, up/down, front/back, left/right, but each type of beat/drum had a defined location. Even if you hat the music, borrow the album and try the track.

Played some tracks from the Jurassic Park III and Gladiator DVD’s to see how they did with imaging a 2.0 signal versus a 5 speaker setup and the SDA’s held up only missing the very rearmost ambient sounds as they were brought forward. You could easily fool inexperienced HT buffs that you have surround sound with these speakers.

Fun with sound imaging:

Mica, our black lab/collie was let in briefly since some particular music drives her bonkers and I wanted to see where she thought the sounds where coming from. (She can usually point directly at the speaker making the “offending” sound. Needless to say, she failed miserably. From barking at the TV during Blue Man Group to looking for the bird in the corner of the room on Telar’cs “Great Fantasy Album”, she was thoroughly confused. How’s that for and unbiased description of the soundstage?

Stengths:
Great imaging and extremely clear sound. Best music was very instrumental (Jazz, accoustic guitar, classical) but they did well in other genre's as well

Weaknesses:
Lack the bass of the larger bretheren and currently unbalanced image.
There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
Post edited by jdhdiggs on
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2004
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    This is the old set-up (Where the couch is now)...

    And yes Mantis, both set-ups unfortunately have rat-nests...
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2004
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    Nice James... and I'm sure Jack D. enjoyed the show as well. Are you sure Mica didn't get her paws on it??? :)

    First off, I'm pretty sure the bass will improve when you spike your 1B's.

    My SRS's SDA soundfield is very much like what you described, i.e., pushing 90 deg on the left, but nomally "only" 45 or so on the right (with occassional widening to 60 or more). I attribute this to room openings.

    When I visited F1 last year, his 2.3tl's soundstage seemed almost the opposite, i.e., 90 deg on the right and 45 on the left. And his room openings are just the opposite of mine.

    Although it's not uniformly symetrical, Russ' "cave" has no openings and the soundfield from his SRS 2's was very balanced, but about the same size overall, maybe 140 deg or so...

    Anyway your room looks to be closer to Russ than mine or F1's, so continue to play. I'd start with moving the right ch a lttle more to the right.

    Glad you're enjoying...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2004
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    Yeah, like this dog would ever spaz out and do something wrong... (She put the frisbee on herself)

    As for the JD, I earned that bottle with a very painful night of not moving from the sofa so I shall keep it forever...
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited March 2004
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    Great review. Nice looking rig and dog there Jd.

    I agree with Tour about your bass issue.

    Now the soundstage....I had the same problem too where one speaker image deeper than the other. One way to fix it is to leave the good side alone and work on the weak side. Move that one speaker forward/back closer/farther from center inch by inch until everyting's balanced. Took me weeks to get it right. My right speaker is actually farther to the right from center and slightly more forward.

    That's how important room acoustics is. I think the main reason why I had to work on mine is because there's quite a large opening on the right side of the room behind the right speaker.

    Maurice
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2004
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    I think you're right, there is a doorway immediately to the side of the right speaker and one just over the right shoulder of the sitting position making that side of the room "accoustically larger"

    Any rule of thumb for how far to the side you need to move the speaker for every inch or so they end up behind the E-canter and TV? This may fix both issues but I don't want to mess with the internal imaging.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited March 2004
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    It's hard to say. With mine, I had to move the speaker forward about an inch for every inch that its moved out. I don't want to say anything because I've never been lucky enough to play with those imaging monsters called SDA:). I'm sure they behave quite differently than normal speakers.

    Why don't you mark the current spot with tape and play around. Remember to take breaks because this is something that can take hours at a time. There were times when I felt like beating everything with a baseball bat because it was so frustrating.


    Good luck.


    Anybody else want to share your techniqes with us on how you deal with this problem?

    Maurice
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,030
    edited March 2004
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    If one speaker is playing *louder* than the other.....

    Take your chair.....

    and SLIDE over........

    My preamp dosnt offer front channel calibration and my room dosnt allow placement changes.......so I have to about do that till I find the sweet spot.

    I havn't encountered one speaker sounding deeper than the other??

    Have you moved the other one out some?

    Isnt optimum placement 3-4-5 inches from the back wall, 3 foot away from side wall?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2004
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    Not louder Sid, images differently. And no, the chair can not move over otherwis it would be in the doorway and would most likely not help this issue since it is most likely an artifact casued by a doorway being at both the second and third reflection points.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,030
    edited March 2004
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    Is there a way you can string up a thick curtain over the door ways, that can be easily moved over when you don't need it?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2004
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    You would need something accoustically reflective, not absorbtive in those spots to even out the room so the curtains would not work. I'm headed to a four day weekend and I'll have some time to experiment with different placement
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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