E-Bay Trouble again - The wait begins

VE6OHV · March 2004

Well my 2ch rig has ground to a screaching halt. I am in the process of building a dedicated 2ch rig, just a small one. I aquired a Dual CS514 Turntable on E-bay, supposed to be like new and hardly used. I guess that is true, however I spent 4 hours cleaning it, it was so covered in smoke build-up that it looked like it came out of a house fire! It does work (I think it might be running a bit slow) and after an extensive cleaning seems to be OK. Then the integrated amplifier shows up too, nice old Hitachi (It was supposed to be) left channel does not function and there is a humming/vibrating noise from the right channel. We will wait and see what the seller wants to do - it was represented as in perfect working condition. Hmmm

Now the NAD 2200 that I was waiting for - MINT - LIKE NEW - comming from the states....... When I saw the box my heart dropped. It looked like it was shipped via Afganistan! Crushed, smashed, torn, and taped up - bleeding styrofoam peanuts. I had to pay for customs fees before I was allowed to inspect the package. The shipper could have packaged it better, it was packed loose on the peanuts...... you all know what that means. Despite the damage I took it home and tried it out, no left channel, the output binding posts are damaged as well as the multiple scratches and dents on the NAD itself.

All in all a very dissapointing E-bay/Freight experience.

faster100 · March 2004

as a seller and buyer, e-bay is starting to get less and less a good place to go, electronics i never buy for this reason, the quality of buyers and sellers have gone way way down over the last 1.5 years that i have seen, people don't pay what they used to and they don't pay at all alot of times.. Its no longer the fun venture i persued 5 years ago.. I have slowed selling for this reason and buying has almost halted.. I do e-bay as a living somewhat, a supplement to our income and its about to change because of e-bay and pay-pal fee's increases and buyers not caring if they pay or not and sellers selling stuff as " like new" and ends up being garbage.. Sorry to hear all your troubles and good luck

danger boy · March 2004

damn, you've had a terrible time recently with quality control.

I've only had two bad ebay experience. most recently.. with a integrated amp i bought. the seller listed it as "everything works" on it. well come to find out the right channel was doa. I contacted the seller.. he was sympathtic but said the amp was sold "as is". true it was.. but he could have at least put that in his auction. that one channel wad dead. Anyway, i just last week got it back from the repair shop. it works fine now. Total repairs were pretty inexpensive. $32.31 to be exact. But it still burns me.. some people can't be honest in their dealings.

Only other ebay/shipping problem i've had over the years. I sold a Pioneer receiver and packed it really well. Well the buy said it arrived "damaged", but he wouldn't file a claim for the damages.. saying it was to much of a hassle. I think he was just trying to pull a scam or something. I offered to refund half of his purchase amount and file a damage claim, but i guess he's the one who had to file a claim. well he never did. and so that's the end of that story.

good luck, hope things go better for you.

phoneisbusy · March 2004

Sorry to hear about you experiences VE6OHV. Hope you get things resolved.

I've had great success with the flea market. It takes a bit more patience but the people here value their reputations so I'm more confident buying from them.

regards

Dave

VE6OHV · March 2004

This is a Joke right?

I sent -
Hi I received the turntable on Friday. Well packaged and intact. The
turntable is smoke damaged. There is a smoke residue all over the
turntable, it is very dirty and runs slowly. It is going to take an
extensive cleaning and servicing to resore the turntable to working
condition. I feel that the condition of the turntable was mis-represented.
Please let me know how you would like to procede with this issue.

He sent
I tested the turntable before it left here and it worked great. The
turntable was sold as a used item and you did have the opportunity to ask
about smoke during the auction, which you did not.

What the heck is going on here? Friggin' people! I had the oppertunity to ask about smoke damage?? Wow my ESP must be failing me.

Loud & Clear · March 2004

Yes, that is a joke ... and a bad one. Save that email, for sure, and pass it on to ebay's team of police. That's unreal.

ken brydson · March 2004

Did you ask if it had hail damage, or was ever hit by lightning, or was stepped on by an elephant?
I agree, a joke. A bad one

VE6OHV · March 2004

My responding e-mail - do you think that I am beeing too nice?

Hi George

I took the turntable in to a local electronics repair shop to get an estimate on cleaning and servicing, the tech said the slow speed is likely due to residue (smoke) buildup on the belt pulleys and a good cleaning should fix it up. If I send the unit back then I would be out of pocket well over 1/2 of the entire purchase price of the turntable. Obviously this is the brand and model number of table that I was looking for or I would not have bid on it. So that leaves me "holding the bag", I would like to have the cleaning and servicing done at a cost of $60.00 plus taxes. That way If I am going to be out of pocket at least I have something to show for it.

As for asking if an item is smoke damaged or not during an auction.... well I truly never thought it would be an issue with a houshold electronic item. Just as I would have never asked if it had lightning damage, hail damage, or if it had been stepped on by an elephant.

I appreciate your offer for a refund, however given the shipping distance and freight charges I do not think that would be a viable option. I would like you to pay for 1/2 of the cleaning and servicing charges however. I know that it is a used item, and it may have required some minor maintinence, that is why I am willing to pay for half of the servicing as well. I think that this would be a fair resolution to this issue.

Thank You

ken brydson · March 2004

Maybe a bit on the nice side but shows charactor on your end. Glad you could use my "elephant" analogy

VE6OHV · March 2004

Yep - sorry about the shameless plagiarism. I think it worked rather well tho.

ken brydson · March 2004

no prob. I always put the little "c" next to anything that I've copyrighted

steveinaz · March 2004

Ebay is sucking wind. I can't believe how many people put: "Excellent condition" "...but it has some sratches here, and some scratches there..."....well ****--that doesn't sound like "Excellent" condition to me. Most people don't even clean stuff up a little for the pic.

And what's up with people stacking equipment all the time? Buy a rack for christ sake, even if it's a Walmart $39 job. I dunno, I'm a fussy sonofabitch as anyone who has bought equipment from me knows. my 17 year old amp didn't have a scratch on it---the thing has been shipped to 3 different countries!

phoneisbusy · March 2004

Originally posted by steveinaz
Ebay is sucking wind. I can't believe how many people put: "Excellent condition" "...but it has some sratches here, and some scratches there..."....well ****--that doesn't sound like "Excellent" condition to me. Most people don't even clean stuff up a little for the pic.

And what's up with people stacking equipment all the time? Buy a rack for christ sake, even if it's a Walmart $39 job. I dunno, I'm a fussy sonofabitch as anyone who has bought equipment from me knows. my 17 year old amp didn't have a scratch on it---the thing has been shipped to 3 different countries!

I guess I'll find out on Monday!

Dave

steveinaz · March 2004

You're gonna love it, that Yammie hasn't even seen any AC yet...

wallstreet · March 2004

misrepresentation of material fact is fraud! a demand letter always works wonders in these conditions if the arsehole doesn't want to bother with you.

In the future I'd recommend audiogon. The shady characters don't seem to hang out there as much and the equipment is always nice.

VE6OHV · March 2004

His response:
Once again I remind you that this was sold as a used item, and
> some smoke
> and dust can usually be expected on something that is 20+ years
> old. You
> wouldn't complain about grease on the motor of a used car, it is
> somethingto be expected.
> I will not pay for any cleaning or make any partial refund. My
> offer of a
> refund upon the return of the turntable still stands.
> Please note that should you chose to leave negative feedback you
> will also
> have a negative in the same instant.
> Thanks,
> George

and mine...
As for negitive feedback. I paid promptly on completion of the auction. I provided you with all the information you required in a very timely manner. I have fulfilled all obligations of a buyer on E-bay. If you choose to leave negitive feedback for me I will be apealing it with E-bay. If I choose to leave you negitive feedback because I feel that you have mis-represented an item and refused attempts to reconcile the situation then that is my perogitive.

The only way that I will accept your offer to refund the purchase amount, will be a payment through pay-pal for the entire purchase price including freight both ways. I refuse to be taken advantage of because you mis-represented an item.

I will be contacting E-bay in reference to this situation - I will also be sending them an e-mail with your message to me re: feedback and your disregard and abuse of the feedback system.

Feel free to contact me by telephone if you prefer

What is with this guy?

VE6OHV · March 2004

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075691864&category=48649&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1

Here is a link to the auction -

You guys think that I am right or what?

Tour2ma · March 2004

First, just to be clear, we are talking cigarette smaoke and not house fire smoke... yes?

Regardless, his threat of feedback retaliation leaves me cold. ebay should be interested in this.

As for the smoke, he promised an item "...in very good used working condition...", and it is not.

I will add that the cleaning/ lubing needed is relatively straightforward. The seller should have done it, but for a few dollars you should be able to do it yourself.

danger boy · March 2004

i never have any luck with Audiogon. there are good deals to be had there.. but i'm always to late. So i have better luck on ebay. i'm sure there are shiesters everywhere.

VE6OHV · March 2004

Yes I do belive that it is cigarette or other tobacco smoke residue. Just so you guys don't think that I am crazy or fanatical. It is so coated with accumulated build-up that it is sticky to the touch. If you scrape your finger nail along it for 1/2 and inch you get a pencil eraser sized glob of tar like stuff. I do not belive that I am over-reacting, I know that it is a used product and some wear and tear is to be expected. This however is unacceptable in my opinion.

On another note - I heard back from the seller of the Hitachi - he wants me to take it in and get it fixed. No problems - no issues, just as I had hoped. As for the NAD - we are still working on it.

Anyone got any cleaning instructions for turntables that they could send me? It looks like I'm going to be stuck with it.

Tour2ma · March 2004

Nasty...

I've a pdf of a 1229 service manual I can e-mail you, just let me have your addy. Should be good for the motor and platter bearing, but the 1229 is a rim drive vs. belt drive.

Should be able to talk you through the cleaning of the belt and pulleys easy enough.

Here's a useful Dual site: http://compassnet.com/concept/index.html

dragon1952 · March 2004

Hi,
Not to be mean or anything, but I looked at his auction and I do not believe he has mis-represented the item. He clearly states :

Comes in very good used working condition in its original box as can be seen in the pictures.

He said "working condition" and never says anything about cosmetic condition. When cosmetic condition is not mentioned, it should be the responsibility of the buyer to specifically ask about this if it is important to them.
I have bought and sold around 30 items on ebay so far and I have found it deplorable that the sellers can't clean the items up before offering them for sale. They go out to garage sales, and such, searching for bargains, then drag some filthy thing back, snap a picture and that's it. I myself will spend whatever time it takes to make an item spotless before even thinking about selling.
As a buyer, I have come to expect to get dirty items and plan on having to spend an hour or so on everything I buy, which has been strictly audio equipment so far.

AsSiMiLaTeD · March 2004

Originally posted by VE6OHV
His response:
You wouldn't complain about grease on the motor of a used car,

Uh, yes I would.

What a jackass...

VE6OHV · March 2004

Originally posted by dragon1952
I have bought and sold around 30 items on ebay so far and I have found it deplorable that the sellers can't clean the items up before offering them for sale. They go out to garage sales, and such, searching for bargains, then drag some filthy thing back, snap a picture and that's it.

OK - I realize that you might think I am being finatical. If "we" let sellers get away with it - then yes it will become common place, even expected...... ie: "Why did you clean it up - are you trying to hide something?"

I paid top dollar for a used peice of equipment. I expected the item to be in top condition period. I might be blowing smoke here, as sure it might not do me any good, but I will not let some jackass take advantage of me or the E-bay system.

dragon1952 · March 2004

Well I do agree with you but I don't think things are going to change much. Bottom line.....if the seller doesn't mention cosmetics than there is probably a reason and the buyer needs to ask. Then if buyer gets a bogus answer he has a case. If cosmetics are not mentioned and the buyer does not ask about them, then it's buyer beware. Sometimes it takes a few buys to figure this out. I personally get a lot of satisfaction in restoring the cosmetics of a nasty looking item. I can understand why someone else may not feel the same way though. Good luck with your TT!

Dennis Gardner · March 2004

It seems that belt drive TTs are many times a crap shoot for speed accuracy unless preowned by someone that gives a ****
Those 20-30 year old belts that have sat in one place for years, just don't spin like they once did.

As a seller I found that words such as "Like New" "Mint Condition" and "New In Box" invites the most particular of collectors, as it should, and my description better be dead-on if expected to pass the muster of the avid collector. I found this out when I sold my 100 car 1:18 Diecast collection and had a guy give me bad feedback because there was a dept. store sticker on the window of the box that meant it wasn't "Mint" since it had been bought once. The sticker came off easily when he returned it and I sold it as used to someone else.

Hope you enjoy the 2ch once its up & going,

DG

E-Bay Trouble again - The wait begins

Comments