RTi10 and amps ?

BigA524
BigA524 Posts: 63
edited January 2011 in Speakers
I read through most of the post on rti's, amps and I still havent figured out what amp to get and WHERE.
Ive had these awhile with my onkyoTX-SR804 and want to finally pull the trigger on an amp.
I saw the Emotiva XPA-3 mentioned, thoughts?
other suggestions?
Where are you guys buying them? Every search I do i cannot find a place to get them?

Thanks
Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited January 2011
    Audiogon, ebay or craigslist if you're looking for used. If not either direct from the company like emotiva or through an authorized dealer off the manufactures website.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited January 2011
    For brand new Emotiva the XPA-3 will work well, or Outlaw audio is good bang for the buck. For used look on www.audiogon.com for Parasound, Rotel, Nad, Sunfire, B & K, Adcom.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited January 2011
    BigA524 wrote: »
    I read through most of the post on rti's, amps and I still havent figured out what amp to get and WHERE.
    Ive had these awhile with my onkyoTX-SR804 and want to finally pull the trigger on an amp.
    I saw the Emotiva XPA-3 mentioned, thoughts?
    other suggestions?
    Where are you guys buying them? Every search I do i cannot find a place to get them?

    Thanks

    I have picked up my last three amps off of Clist. Parasound (X2) and Adcom.

    Cannot beat the value there if you are willing to give up the warranty.

    I have two Parasounds HCA 1000A's that are looking for a new home. PM me if interested.
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    If I go with the xpa-5 can i bi amp my rti10s or just find a xpa3?
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 2,016
    edited January 2011
    BigA524 wrote: »
    If I go with the xpa-5 can i bi amp my rti10s or just find a xpa3?

    This bi-amp stuff is a touchy subject around here.

    If you haven't read "weak bass in RTi10," consider clicking below:
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1499548#post1499548

    IMHO if you're willing to $ an EXO & bypass the Polk sub filters, maybe. W/A7s, I'm taking that to the next level when I correct some DC offset issues. Feel free to pm me

    tony
    Samsung 60" QN65Q7FAMFXZA QLED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro, Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids “Foamed” & “Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop)

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels*. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - RB981*
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981* -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    Surrounds: Rotel 981* -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    *all connected w/Premiere ICs
    5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”

    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited January 2011
    BigA524 wrote: »
    If I go with the xpa-5 can i bi amp my rti10s or just find a xpa3?

    For the most part, biamping is a waste of time & most cannot hear any difference/improvement.

    However, with the XPA-5 you can also amp your back speakers, which will also benefit from the increased power. Mine came to life once I did so.

    You will hear clear improvements with amping your speakers with an Emotiva. You will have better bass, clearer vocals & instruments.

    All of your speakers will be running to their full potential, and you will be in excellent shape to upgrade to harder to drive speakers in the future.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    This bi-amp stuff is a touchy subject around here.

    If you haven't read "weak bass in RTi10," consider clicking below:
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1499548#post1499548

    IMHO if you're willing to $ an EXO & bypass the Polk sub filters, maybe. W/A7s, I'm taking that to the next level when I correct some DC offset issues. Feel free to pm me

    tony
    yes, i did read the bi amping stuff. I thought with the xpa-5 amp it might be different then a reg avr,

    I have decided to go with the Emotiva XPA-3 of I can find one! Will the amp still work without a center speaker. long story...

    thx
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    For two channel listening and using Emotiva amps, I would recommend either a pair of UPA-1 monoblock amps over the XPA-3 or the XPA-2 if you want to use a single amp.

    Emotiva has sold out on many of their amps, but I understand that more are on their way.

    Not sure I need the xpa-2. What are the listening differences in the upa-1 200w and going with less watts in the upa-2 at 125w??

    I'm also planning on getting a center not sure when though. My space is limited now with my current setup for a center. Wouldnt the xpa-3 still be a better option then the rest and with the pricing its almost the same.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited January 2011
    Since you are planning on getting a CC, get the XPA-3, that way it will have the 3rd channel there when you get the CC.

    A great many people can't hear a clear and distinct improvement adding a 125wpc amp. You will hear a difference with 200wpc. Also you will need more power if you ever step up to getting harder to drive speakers like the LSI's.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    Now the question is what is a good price on a xpa-3?
    Found a used one for $515 shipped in excellent condition.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2011
    BigA524 wrote: »
    Now the question is what is a good price on a xpa-3?
    Found a used one for $515 shipped in excellent condition.
    What do they sell for new these days? I don't think I paid more than that for a new one a couple years ago. Good news is I only lost $100 on the resale.
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    What do they sell for new these days? I don't think I paid more than that for a new one a couple years ago. Good news is I only lost $100 on the resale.

    New at Emotiva is $699. After reading through everything and seeing that new ones sold for $499 a few years back I'm sorta hesitant to pull the trigger on the used one.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited January 2011
    Then get a new one and enjoy.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited January 2011
    Don't worry about bi-amping.

    If you're into home theater, find something that's five channel. You'll really appreciate it when you get the new center channel. I try to have the same amplification for all the channels being driven, whether it be one 5 channel amp or 5 mono blocks.

    I don't buy into the "200 watts or it's not worth it" kool aid. I'd be willing to bet you'd be able to discern the difference between your AVR and a quality 60 wpc amp.

    Find a demo or close out from Music Direct or Audio Advisor if you're looking for a deal and don't wanna go used. Rotel, Adcom, Outlaw, Emotiva are good brands to look for. If you come across a deal on something you're interested in, post a link to it and we'll let you know if it's worth it or not.

    Here's a brand new 5 channel NAD at Audio Advisor: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAT955

    It's a bit more at $799, but I think it would do quite nicely.
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    Ok, It looks like the 2 Emotiva amps deals are going to fall through. I'm gonna need some suggestions on a amp. I think I'm gonna stick with a 3 channel. I will eventually get a center.
    Current setup is a RTi10, 2 Rears and a Onkyo TX-SR804. Right now I'm 50/50 with movies and music but would like it geared towards music just a little more. Price range I probably couldnt go more then $700.

    Thanks
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • MADGSF
    MADGSF Posts: 603
    edited January 2011
    At that price point you are pretty much looking at used units. I picked my amp up used 5 years ago and it still works like a champ so I would not be afraid as long as the seller is reputable. There is a nice Rotel RMB-1075 on audiogon that would fit the bill nicely. If you don't like it you would have no trouble selling it. Don't forget to include some decent interconnects.

    RMB-1075
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1300019010&/Rotel-RMB-1075-Excellent-Condi

    This Rotel is 6 channels that can be bridged to 3 at 150w per channel:
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1300398203&/Rotel-RMB-1066-6-x-60WPC-Ampli
    AVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
    Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
    Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
    Mains: RTi-10
    Center: CSi-5
    Rear: Boston DSi460
    Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
    TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
    DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2011
    BigA524 wrote: »
    Ok, It looks like the 2 Emotiva amps deals are going to fall through. I'm gonna need some suggestions on a amp. I think I'm gonna stick with a 3 channel. I will eventually get a center.
    Current setup is a RTi10, 2 Rears and a Onkyo TX-SR804. Right now I'm 50/50 with movies and music but would like it geared towards music just a little more. Price range I probably couldnt go more then $700.

    Thanks

    Probably a good thing then! Most seem to think that Emotiva is great for HT, but not as many say great for music. An Adcom GFA-7500 has done the trick for me.

    EDIT: I think the recommendations above from MADGSF are pretty solid, too!
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    I did end up getting the XPA-3 and I'm not impressed with the extra power. The highs were there but the bass was lacking. I'm gonna run the auto setup on my avr tomorrow but i doubt that will help. I'll probably get flamed for picking the emotiva.
    I tried full band with the sub active and I felt it didnt blend well.
    I played with the crossover..I dont hear a dif between 40 and 120hz.

    Suggestions?


    Also confused with the ohms part. The RTis are 8. Is something adjustable or does the amp just do it?
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,067
    edited January 2011
    Is the crossover on the sub turned all the way up? Try running in direct 2 channel and see how it sounds. I want to say it's a setup issue. Also see where the auto calibration set your front speaker levels at. Start at 0 db's and adjust up or down from there.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    The sub is at 200Hz all the way and the Phase is set at Norm. All the dbs were set at 0. I'm gonna rerun the setup and see.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited January 2011
    If you dont hear any differents between 40 and 120hz something is a miss..That is very strange.On my Rti10 i can tell a huge difference between the too hz..I would rerun the EQ and see if that helps and make sure the "small" speakers setting is set..When i just bought the SC-25, i could hear a HUGE differents in the bass on my Rti10's. I was in the same boat as you with not getting nice bass out of the two 7inch ..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,067
    edited January 2011
    BigA524 wrote: »
    The sub is at 200Hz all the way and the Phase is set at Norm. All the dbs were set at 0. I'm gonna rerun the setup and see.

    See if it sets them to large or small, you can always change to large if you want. See where it puts the crossover at in the receiver, if you want more lower bass from the fronts, lower the crossover point to around 50 or 60.
    What sub are you running btw ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    My avr only has Full band or the hz setting for the fronts. I reran the setup. It kept it on full band for the fronts and 70hz for the rears and it kept the sub on. The dbs was -2 for the right and 0 for left. +4 for both rears. The highs - mids are there but bass without sub is not there. Direct improves but not that much.
    Sub im running is a sony SA-WX700.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited January 2011
    Take it off FullBand put the fronts @ 80hz..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • MADGSF
    MADGSF Posts: 603
    edited January 2011
    First thing I would try for a test is take the sub out entirely and run them full range. I think using the pure direct would do this if you have a two channel source. I run my speakers full range, even when using the sub, and the bass is good to my ears. You can feel it as well if the music has a lot of bass. For movies running them full range without a sub works well for me too.

    Another suggestion, on my Pioneer you can set the sub to off/on/plus. The plus setting sends LFE informatoin to both the sub and any speakers set to large/full range. Not sure if Onkyo has this option but you might try it too if it does. I run my system with the sub at plus and the RTi10 as large and am happy.
    AVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
    Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
    Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
    Mains: RTi-10
    Center: CSi-5
    Rear: Boston DSi460
    Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
    TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
    DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    Cmiller wrote: »
    Take it off FullBand put the fronts @ 80hz..

    Best sound is between 80-100hz. rerunning setup helped. Sounds good but right now i dont think the price of amp good. Bass is still iffy without sub.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • Cmiller
    Cmiller Posts: 108
    edited January 2011
    Hmm,you just might be asking to much out of the Rti10 two 7's.I know your feeling bigtime though,two 7's should pound you would think, maybe we need a 300W per channel amp to really push the Rti10's..as many as stated before,room placement makes a big difference also..you could put the Hz @ 50 and upp the Mids and highs..
    Samsung PN50B550 Plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-25
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
    Adcom 7500 Amp-Panamax 4300 Conditioner
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk Csi A6 Center-Polk M60s rear Surrounds
    Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 X2
    Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium back surround
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  • BigA524
    BigA524 Posts: 63
    edited January 2011
    Cmiller wrote: »
    Hmm,you just might be asking to much out of the Rti10 two 7's.I know your feeling bigtime though,two 7's should pound you would think, maybe we need a 300W per channel amp to really push the Rti10's..as many as stated before,room placement makes a big difference also..you could put the Hz @ 50 and upp the Mids and highs..

    Maybe thats it. Im expecting to much. Gonna keep playing around with the settings. I have 30day trial on the amp.
    Marantz 1607 - Polk S60 - S35 - Emotiva XPA-3 - Polk DSWPRO550wi
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited January 2011
    If you are expecting to get the kind of deep bass out of floorstanders as you would a sub, it is not going to happen.

    There is some improvement with the bass, however, speakers will never be able to really hit the low notes even though it will struggle to try & do so.

    That is why I have always used a sub with music, so that is plays everything the speakers can't really get to.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited January 2011
    cfrizz wrote: »
    If you are expecting to get the kind of deep bass out of floorstanders as you would a sub, it is not going to happen.

    There is some improvement with the bass, however, speakers will never be able to really hit the low notes even though it will struggle to try & do so.

    That is why I have always used a sub with music, so that is plays everything the speakers can't really get to.
    I would wholeheartedly agree with your comments if they pertained to HT. I have RTi10s, and I've never heard them "struggle" with any type of music. I remain convinced that the OP has either some setup issues that have been overlooked, or some serious room issues... or it could be as you've suggested, and he expects subwoofer-like performance (i.e. "thump") from these tower speakers.

    I don't know... mine are pretty capable on their own, but obviously that's to my ears and expectations. Maybe the OP would hear mine and disagree, so it's hard to say...
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