Looking at Pioneer VSX-1120-K to power a HT system

Roamingrasta · January 2011

Anybody have an opinion on Pioneer VSX-1120-K? Im moving to a new house and will have a 31x23 game/multimedia room and am looking for a good mid-priced receiver for dual party and theater sound. Ive got a Denon 2807 in my current family room pushing a compact (nice sound) Aperion HT 5.1 which is suitable for HT and low volume music but lacks the volume necessary for parties. My secondary system is a Sony de935 receiver that I just blew up along with a RTi6 mid/woofer lending it to a friend for their X-mas party.
The game/multimedia room is going to have the RTi6 with x-over mods (if Im going to fix the speaker . . . then Im going to fix the speakers) per the forums configured as:
Front: RTi6 - purchased from Circuit City in 2006 on sale for $160 (new)
Center: CSi3- purchased from Frys in 2007 on sale for $99 (new)
Surround: bi-poled FXi3 purchased from Frys in 2007 on sale for $129 (new)
SW: Definitive SuperCube III x 2 bought them from a physician friend for $400 for the pair (barely used)

Im thinking of going 7.2 with RTi A5/A7 if my frugal **** can find them at a good price. IMO the weak link was the A/V receiver with the specs I wanted for the room Im building { Vizio 55, 90 projection screen, internet and DLNA music stream, PS3 for Blu-Ray and Netflix/streamed and content }
The Pioneer seems to fit the bill but have not heard one yet. Ill be at CES this week looking at A/V and the new LED projectors. Ill post my impressions with pics.

nguyendot · January 2011

I'd say that room is about 7000 cubic feet if it's 10ft ceilings.
An 1120-k is an excellent receiver, but 7000 ft^3 is quite large and would be pushing...actually exceeding what that is capable of. If you plan on getting good sound from those speakers in a room that size, you'll need to consider a hefty amp and some good room treatments.

You'll need more power - that's what the amp is for in addition to the receiver. This is to fill the space with sound.

You'll need room treatments - a room that size is going to be echo city.

stangjason · January 2011

I feel your pain on the room size because my room is an open floor plan. Right now I currently have an 1120 I'm considering taking back but I have to admit that it has a very good sound for movies but the amp is quite inadequate for music with volume.

I have a H/K AVR635 that has no problem filling my whole house with music but it's quite lacking in the surround sound department. If I can find a receiver like the H/K 635 that can provide as good a HT sound image as the 1120 at the 1120 price I'd buy it right now and carry the 1120 back ASAP.

Roamingrasta · January 2011

What would you recommend? I won’t be blasting the sound in an empty room . . . party means I’ll have bodies, so the echoing I’m not as worried about. I’ve got hardwood floors (hickory) and will have a pool table along with some furniture. The actual usable space is less than the 31’x23’ a size taken from construction/arch. drawings that I pulled that number from and that didn’t take into account the storage, wet bar and powder room. Let’s say we take 7’ feet of depth for them, I guessing that I have 24x20 feet. . . . see attached photo. [IMG]e:\key finder\game room.jpg[/IMG]

Roamingrasta · January 2011

How do you post a photo?

nguyendot · January 2011

Put it on photobucket or something, and link it would be easiest since you don't have many posts.

Glowrdr · January 2011

You have to upload it (flickr, facebook, etc) - then post the link to the picture. RIght now you've just posted a shortcut that says your picture is on your E drive. Doesn't help much :redface:

Roamingrasta · January 2011

I'll post the photo later . . . but as I've described my room size is a little smaller than the initial dimensions. BTW this is not a basement room; it's a room above the garage if that makes a difference.

Roamingrasta · January 2011

Would a 2 channel power amp for the fronts make a difference using the pre-amp output. As I said, I'll be at CES looking for a solution. This 1120 A/V has all the connectivity bells I want.

Roamingrasta · January 2011

Hope this works.

nguyendot · January 2011

Just for music... But for home theater the center will be what's using all the power.

Roamingrasta · January 2011

nguyendot wrote: »

Just for music... But for home theater the center will be what's using all the power.

What sound volume are you looking to push for HT. Other than the super bowl party (I cant see pushing that volume even for that) I throw I cant imagine ever blasting this set to those volumes.

tonyb · January 2011

That is still a pretty good sized room. If you have future thoughts on going A7's, I'd suggest at least a 3 channel amp for the front 3 speaks. The 1120 receiver has all the processing, but with big speakers it may lack in power, running 7 channels it will only put out about 40-50 watts. Or move up to an SC model, the ice amps in those receivers don't drop power as much in 7 channel mode.

Roamingrasta · January 2011

stangjason wrote: »

I feel your pain on the room size because my room is an open floor plan. Right now I currently have an 1120 I'm considering taking back but I have to admit that it has a very good sound for movies but the amp is quite inadequate for music with volume.

I have a H/K AVR635 that has no problem filling my whole house with music but it's quite lacking in the surround sound department. If I can find a receiver like the H/K 635 that can provide as good a HT sound image as the 1120 at the 1120 price I'd buy it right now and carry the 1120 back ASAP.

The 125W/ch is not enough? My old Sony DE935 when pushing 5.1 was really loud when pushing my RTi6 based system and its rated at 110W/ch. Am I missing something here? What speakers are you powering?

Roamingrasta · January 2011

tonyb wrote: »

That is still a pretty good sized room. If you have future thoughts on going A7's, I'd suggest at least a 3 channel amp for the front 3 speaks. The 1120 receiver has all the processing, but with big speakers it may lack in power, running 7 channels it will only put out about 40-50 watts. Or move up to an SC model, the ice amps in those receivers don't drop power as much in 7 channel mode.

I obviously only read the advertising hype; in my ignorance I thought when a system says 125W/Channel in 5.1 it means it. Educate me here, what do you look at . . . the total reported wattage?

nguyendot · January 2011

You look at what it really puts out. Google some models and see the benchmark tests. Home theater (.com) does testing on many receivers and will show their real output.

tonyb · January 2011

Roamingrasta wrote: »

I obviously only read the advertising hype; in my ignorance I thought when a system says 125W/Channel in 5.1 it means it. Educate me here, what do you look at . . . the total reported wattage?

Yeah, advertising hype is a good way of putting it. You can google your receiver model no. or HomeTheatermag.com publishes bench tests for what they review. Look around the forum,we have many threads on receiver power. Here's the jist,in short, don't worry so much about a receivers power as long as you have preouts to be able to add an amp down the road when/if you need more power. Alot of people buy the cheapest receiver they can afford, then the upgrade bug hits and want to go out and buy big power hungry speakers that their receiver just can't drive to their potential. The A7'S will work off a receiver but will benefit greatly with an amp. Your kinda pushing the limits with the A7's in surround mode with most receivers.

B Run · January 2011

I read somewhere that on the test bench the 1120 only puts out about 42watts with 5 channels driven. My theater room is about 28x27 and it drove my Rti's pretty well at louder volumes.

txcoastal1 · January 2011

You can definitely build off the 1120

stangjason · January 2011

B Run wrote: »

I read somewhere that on the test bench the 1120 only puts out about 42watts with 5 channels driven. My theater room is about 28x27 and it drove my Rti's pretty well at louder volumes.

I was listening to music on my 1120 last night and realized that something was missing, my sub, so once I went into my settings and turned my sub on made some adjustments everything in the world sounded beautiful again. I will still say that it lacks the oomph of my H/K 635 which I paid $399 for but it blows it away in sound staging. If I could only find a receiver with a little more oomph and as good of a movie sound as this Pioneer.

Does anyone know if the Denon line has a receiver that comes closer to its power rating and can put out as good of a HT surround sound as this Pioneer does? I really don't care a whole lot about have HDMI 1.4 or upconverting.

tonyb · January 2011

The "oomph" part is why they included preouts to add an amp, we've been telling you this over and over. Also did you check your speaker level settings ? Reset to 0 and go from there.

stangjason · January 2011

tonyb wrote: »

The "oomph" part is why they included preouts to add an amp, we've been telling you this over and over. Also did you check your speaker level settings ? Reset to 0 and go from there.

My H/K 635 needed no amp to get oomph but it lacks the HT experience I like from the Pioneer. My search is for a receiver other than H/K that can give me that oomph back without an amp along with that good HT experience. Are their any other receiver brands that can live up to their claimed power like the H/K?

nguyendot · January 2011

stangjason wrote: »

My H/K 635 needed no amp to get oomph but it lacks the HT experience I like from the Pioneer. My search is for a receiver other than H/K that can give me that oomph back without an amp along with that good HT experience. Are their any other receiver brands that can live up to their claimed power like the H/K?

]

You've probably repeated this about 10 times now. We do understand, and we have read it. No need to repeat it so many times.

Marantz
Pioneer Elite
Rotel
NAD

Google is your friend.

I'd start with hometheater.com and read the reviews on the receivers. The last page always has the actual measured output as opposed to the manufacturer rated power.

http://www.hometheater.com/category/av-receiver-reviews

stangjason · January 2011

nguyendot wrote: »

]

You've probably repeated this about 10 times now. We do understand, and we have read it. No need to repeat it so many times.

Marantz
Pioneer Elite
Rotel
NAD

Google is your friend.

I'd start with hometheater.com and read the reviews on the receivers. The last page always has the actual measured output as opposed to the manufacturer rated power.

http://www.hometheater.com/category/av-receiver-reviews

Isn't the 1120 and elite in non-elite guise?

B Run · January 2011

stangjason wrote: »

Isn't the 1120 and elite in non-elite guise?

It's a vsx32 without a few features and badges. If you're not going to add an amp and want more oomph check out the sc line, or just snag a used amp and hook it up and I think you'll be happy.

Roamingrasta · January 2011

What makes the 1120 such a desirable A/V receiver is its feature set at the price point of $500 (store price). With that said, you have to move up to something like the Onkyo TX-NR808 (135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC) with a Best Buy price of $1,000 to get similar features but a test measured 73 watts/ch X 7 to get the “oomph” that we’re talking about. That’s a whopping 100% premium on the 1120 price. Following up on a recommendation in this forum I’ve been looking into 3 Ch. Power amps . . . . I’ve got a still photography and videography hobby . . . a two trip out of county hobby . . . three beautiful children that sponge every penny out of your pocket hobby . . . you get the picture!
I’m not the consumer who is going to pay upward of a thousand dollars for a 3 Ch. power amp. I’m just too cheap! What’s the cost effective option for a good entertainment room?

Roamingrasta · January 2011

B Run wrote: »

It's a vsx32 without a few features and badges. If you're not going to add an amp and want more oomph check out the sc line, or just snag a used amp and hook it up and I think you'll be happy.

Hummmm . . . why don't you sell me your Adcom GFA-7000 :rolleyes:

nguyendot · January 2011

I recommend you buys read through this thread a few times... Because the same stuff is getting covered over an over.

stangjason · January 2011

Roamingrasta wrote: »

What makes the 1120 such a desirable A/V receiver is its feature set at the price point of $500 (store price). With that said, you have to move up to something like the Onkyo TX-NR808 (135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC) with a Best Buy price of $1,000 to get similar features but a test measured 73 watts/ch X 7 to get the “oomph” that we’re talking about. That’s a whopping 100% premium on the 1120 price. Following up on a recommendation in this forum I’ve been looking into 3 Ch. Power amps . . . . I’ve got a still photography and videography hobby . . . a two trip out of county hobby . . . three beautiful children that sponge every penny out of your pocket hobby . . . you get the picture!
I’m not the consumer who is going to pay upward of a thousand dollars for a 3 Ch. power amp. I’m just too cheap! What’s the cost effective option for a good entertainment room?

I've got a diaper and a lack of sleep hobby :biggrin: So you can see why $500 is a lot right now and I bring up the same topic on receivers. If I could just convert my H/K into a dedicated amp for my Pioneer.

I figure there is a little older receiver that I might find for around $550-$600 that will fill my wattage needs but I've just got to run into it. The TX-NR808 is getting cheaper but I've been scared away from Onkyo by a few things I've read here and there ...same for Yamaha.

Glowrdr · January 2011

stangjason wrote: »

Isn't the 1120 and elite in non-elite guise?

As said before, the 1120 is an Elite without the badge, but its the VSX elite, not the SC elite.

Here is a good way to explain it (assuming the 'stang in your name isn't horses...)

Try and show up to a Mustang Cobra meet, with a V6 automatic Mustang. Granted, its still a mustang - but they aren't even looked at on the same level. That would probably be for the regular pio vs the elite.

Then you get into the VSX elites. They are elites, yes. But again, it's like trying to say "Well, isn't a GT a cobra, without the snake?" It does SAY elite, but I think the VSX is more of a marketing ploy to play on peoples value of the brand recognition of the Elite badge. It's lower end, and missing some of the main components of the badging (i.e. the ICEamps)

So in your case, I wouldn't even pull the VSX line into the mix. You're either looking at the 1120 with an amp, or the SC line with the "real" amps. Other receivers are going to compare very similarly in the price range, otherwise if there was a clear winner, we would have all said so by now.

Also keep in mind that the 1120 puts out roughly half of what the 635 did in bench tests. That is why you're missing that oomph your talking about.

cnh · January 2011

That makes sense as the 635 is a rather HEFTY unit of over 41 lbs. And I doubt that the 1120 even weighs in at 30lbs.

cnh

Looking at Pioneer VSX-1120-K to power a HT system

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