DAC magic PSU Upgrade?

PrazVT
PrazVT Posts: 1,607
edited December 2010 in Electronics
Thinking of upgrading the PSU on my DAC magic in addition to the one on the Squeezebox Touch. I've only found 2 - the Little Pinkie and the AC-12. Based on the specs / descriptions, what do you guys think?

AC-12 PSU for DacMagic
1882_4.jpg

Little Pinkie V3i PSU for DacMagic
p1v.jpg


Thanks.
- Praz
Dali Optikon 1Mk2
NAD D3020 V2
Schiit Bifrost 2/64

..the rest are headphone setups.
Post edited by PrazVT on

Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    If I had to guess I'd say the Pinkie. It's odd that it's just a transformer with no additonal or any filter capacitance. Atleast the Bolder Modded ELPAC and Welboure for the Squeeze Box products includes a beefier stack of nice caps for filter capacitance. Atleast you are getting rid of the switching part of the PS, that's the worst part.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited December 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It's odd that it's just a transformer with no additonal or any filter capacitance.
    Because the supplied wall wart is just a transformer to step down the voltage.The rectification, filter capacitance and voltage regulation is within the main chassis.

    As for the OP's question I,m not sure that merely increasing the current capability of the transformer will bring about much in the way of sonic benifits since the stock wall wart trans looks to have a VA rating suficient for the job.If it's out of warranty and your handy with a soldering iron there are other options for mod's that should squeeze more performance out of that nice little DAC.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Because the supplied wall wart is just a transformer to step down the voltage.The rectification, filter capacitance and voltage regulation is within the main chassis.

    I see, but there are filter caps and voltage regulation inside the sqb units too, except all the aftermarket power supply's added better, faster rectification as well as more filter capacitance. Why not here?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    What would you suggest Fred? I have totally taken the Dac Magic out of the running because I detest the wall wart PS. If there is a decent way around this, then it's back in the running. :smile:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Because the supplied wall wart is just a transformer to step down the voltage.The rectification, filter capacitance and voltage regulation is within the main chassis.

    As for the OP's question I,m not sure that merely increasing the current capability of the transformer will bring about much in the way of sonic benifits since the stock wall wart trans looks to have a VA rating suficient for the job.If it's out of warranty and your handy with a soldering iron there are other options for mod's that should squeeze more performance out of that nice little DAC.

    Is it not a switching power supply? and the aftermarket PS a linear? That in itself is a big difference.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited December 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I see, but there are filter caps and voltage regulation inside the sqb units too, except all the aftermarket power supply's added better, faster rectification as well as more filter capacitance. Why not here?

    H9
    You would need to remove the internal rectiification if you wanted to feed it from an external DC volt source instead of raw AC.The SQB I assume is meant to use only an external DC supply.
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,545
    edited December 2010
    At the end of the day, it's the final output that matters, and apparently, the DAC Magic has it in spades (given it's popularity and rave reviews). I think you're worrying about nothing--and in the process, missing the boat.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited December 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Is it not a switching power supply? and the aftermarket PS a linear? That in itself is a big difference.
    No the stock wall wart is just a transformer used to step down the raw AC to a usable level.I'm guessing the DC regulation within the chassis uses the typical 3 pin IC regulators (LM78**/79** or LM317/337) as used in your Adcom.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    steveinaz wrote: »
    At the end of the day, it's the final output that matters, and apparently, the DAC Magic has it in spades (given it's popularity and rave reviews). I think you're worrying about nothing--and in the process, missing the boat.

    Not really Steve, you and I and others here are beyond these types of entry level mass produced pieces. The SQB Touch gets the same rave reviews this product gets, except for me it's almost unlistenable using the internal dac's and the extra performance a proper power supply adds is very noticeable.

    I don't tend to buy into the faceless hype. Now if several people on here that I trusted and had similar tastes in gear as me recommended it, then I'd take more notice.

    So I do worry about the cost cutting measures at this price point.

    So for me when pieces get rave reviews by the general public I rarely feel the same way when I use those products. Far too many times I've been disappointed based on all the accolades certain lower to mid priced mass produced gear gets.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    That didn't come out quite right, sounds snobish and eliteist, doesn't it? Didn't mean for it to sound that way.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited December 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    No the stock wall wart is just a transformer used to step down the raw AC to a usable level.I'm guessing the DC regulation within the chassis uses the typical 3 pin IC regulators (LM78**/79** or LM317/337) as used in your Adcom.

    Ok, I assumed it was a switching PS. If it's just the same as using a big torrid then why aren't more manufacturer's using this simplfied and more cost effective way of simply stepping down the raw AC. Seems they could save a lot in production costs and parts if there is no difference.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,545
    edited December 2010
    Understand, it's all relative and anyone buying a Magic is likely going to be duly impressed, good point.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • PrazVT
    PrazVT Posts: 1,607
    edited December 2010
    Because the supplied wall wart is just a transformer to step down the voltage.The rectification, filter capacitance and voltage regulation is within the main chassis.

    As for the OP's question I,m not sure that merely increasing the current capability of the transformer will bring about much in the way of sonic benifits since the stock wall wart trans looks to have a VA rating suficient for the job.If it's out of warranty and your handy with a soldering iron there are other options for mod's that should squeeze more performance out of that nice little DAC.

    It's maybe a month old at most. I love it so far - totally impressed with it. But since I was going to upgrade the PS on the SB, I thought I may as well do it on the DAC as well.

    So are you guys saying that the stock PS is probably a step up from what comes w/ say the SB?
    Dali Optikon 1Mk2
    NAD D3020 V2
    Schiit Bifrost 2/64

    ..the rest are headphone setups.
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    You would need to remove the internal rectiification if you wanted to feed it from an external DC volt source instead of raw AC.The SQB I assume is meant to use only an external DC supply.

    Would someone really have to remove the internal rectification? I know it would be redundant and would just act like extra diodes in the circuit. My remote control kit took 9-15vac then rectified and regulated it on the board. I ran 12vdc to it just as it were. It worked perfectly fine. Later when I new I was going to use DC for sure I omitted the rectifier and just used the regulator on board. There were no audio signals associated with this PS.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited December 2010
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Would someone really have to remove the internal rectification?
    Well yeah it will pass the DC minus the voltage drop across the diodes,but as you say it's redundant,so I'd remove it if using an outboard DC supply.Speaking of which a nice little external supply could be DIY'ed for this unit using a little Tamura Toroid,some fast recovery diodes with a healthy amount of Panny FC series low ESR filter caps and a Corcom IEC input AC line filter.