Are Monitor 70s really "easy to drive"?

thinkthis · December 2010

I just bought a pair of monitor 70s and a CS10 to replace my infinity bookshelf speakers and a cheap sony center channel I had been using.

I have a Pioneer VSX-1019 as my receiver.

Normally when I watch blu-ray movies I would put the audio at about -25 to 30 dbs. Now that I have the monitor 70s installed (and I reran the auto-calibration) I have to crank my audio up to -18 and sometimes even higher. On the Lion King I actually had my sound turned up to -10dbs, which I found out is as high as the amp will go. It wasn't quiet, but it was definitely not what I would call "loud."

I thought these babies were supposed to be easy to drive and only require a moderate consumer class amp (the 1019 is not high end, but it is not garbage by any means).

Would setting the surround rears, which I'm not using since I'm only doing 5.1, to "bi-amp" mode and then running a second set of wires to my 70s help out at all?

Thanks.

kawizx9r · December 2010

How long have you had the speakers? Let them break in.

Btw, welcome to CP.

thinkthis · December 2010

Thanks for the welcome. I forgot to mention that I LOVE the sound the 70s put out. The CS10 is also a revelation over my old sony center.

Oh they've only been in use a week. I know they need some break in to develop their sound, but I just wasn't expecting to have to turn the dial up so much in comparison to my (admittedly much weaker) previous setup.

Ron Temple · December 2010

Your AVR should go to at least +8. Reference level is usually auto-calibrated to -0. Your floorstanders are fairly efficient, but certainly represent more of a load than you bookshelf speakers.

Outfitter03 · December 2010

Welcome.

For HT most of the sound and pretty much all of the dialog comes through the center channel. The CS2 or CS20 is a much better match with the Monitor 70.

I have found quite a bit of variance in soundtracks, especially for the center channel. Frequently when I start watching a movie I need to pop into the menu and raise the center channel DB a little bit above my calibrated point in order to hear dialog properly. I am running a CS2 with Monitor 70s.

Have you tried any music listening? How do the 70's sound in two channel? Mine took about 2 weeks of running 18 hours of day to break in.

The other question is your source. If you are getting a weak source signal this can affect volume, but I don't believe this would be the cause if you are running HDMI for movies to your AVR.

tonyb · December 2010

When you ran the auto calibration, did you check to see what it set your speakers at ? You can go back in the menu and change it. It may have set them at minus 5, thus making the receiver work harder at higher volumes. Check it out.

nguyendot · December 2010

I bet your Infinitys were more efficient than the Monitors. Infinity generally has a higher sensitivity, and therefore are easier to drive, requiring less power.

polkfan38 · December 2010

Which Infinitys did you have? I have both Infinity (92 dB sensitivity) and Polk (89 dB sensitivity) and there is a difference however slight. That reciever puts out about 60-65 WPC in reality in 7.0. Not a problem with the 70s!

thinkthis · December 2010

I'm not really sure what the Infinity's are exactly. I inherited them from my father. They just say "Infinity Reference Series" on the back. They aren't too shabby, but the 70s blow them away, at least once I turn up the sound.

No one has any thoughts on bi-amping making the fronts easier to drive? I mean if the receiver can do a certain amount watts per channel, wouldn't sending two more channels worth of power to the fronts make them easier to drive?

Or is this simply a matter of splitting a pie into smaller pieces and the total power remains the same? Even if that's the case my rears are so puny that I wouldn't mind stealing some of the power being sent to them.

polkfan38 · December 2010

At this level, it is splitting the pie into smaller pieces. In a strict 2 channel set up, some AVRs have the ability to send the same signal out of two separate connections. (heights??)
Some people say they can tell the difference and some can't when bi amping. It is something you can play with.
But, being that the Monitor 70s are 8 ohm and are something like 90 dB sensitive, I would not worry too much about it.

tonyb · December 2010

thinkthis wrote: »

No one has any thoughts on bi-amping making the fronts easier to drive? I mean if the receiver can do a certain amount watts per channel, wouldn't sending two more channels worth of power to the fronts make them easier to drive?

No, your still using the same power supply. Just dividing up the pie as you put it. If you want bigger sound,move up the speaker chain.

polknewby · December 2010

I currently have the same avr and fonts. What do you have your avr set on right now? You can go in and configure it to a few options- Normal 7.1, 'bi-amp', zone B, ect. If you are running a 5.1 make sure you don't have it set on 7.1. I actually just switched to 7.1 but before had a 5.1 setup and 'bi-wired' mine. I actually could tell a difference in the sound and had extra wire so wasn't too big of a deal. When I had 5.1 running all the blurays ran hd master audio but 7:1 runs D llPx if the bluray is not in 7.1 format and will take away some sound quality from experience. Also make sure you are bitstreaming from your bluray player if you can so that all the uncompressed data is being sent.

-Josh

teadrunk · December 2010

I too have a similar setup, about 10 days back I bought Monitor 70s(cherry), VSX-1020-K and Polk110 Sub - fits my budget to the dot. Bi-amped, No surround/back speakers, as Im only interested in Music. I too was a bit disappointed in how it all sounds.
Turning the speaker setting to 'small' helped a bit but I think some notes/frequencies are missing. *** thinkthis- Did you try that / does it help *** ?

I really hope the break-in would improve the sound- btw, never knew about that till I read some older posts in this forum.

Im still looking for any information that would help. I may buy a better cd player depending on cost. Currently connected to an old no name player.

tonyb · December 2010

teadrunk wrote: »

I too have a similar setup, about 10 days back I bought Monitor 70s(cherry), VSX-1020-K and Polk110 Sub - fits my budget to the dot. Bi-amped, No surround/back speakers, as Im only interested in Music. I too was a bit disappointed in how it all sounds.
Turning the speaker setting to 'small' helped a bit but I think some notes/frequencies are missing. *** thinkthis- Did you try that / does it help *** ?

I really hope the break-in would improve the sound- btw, never knew about that till I read some older posts in this forum.

Im still looking for any information that would help. I may buy a better cd player depending on cost. Currently connected to an old no name player.

Bi-amping off the receiver isn't doing you any favors aside from the crappy cd player. Also cables can make a difference too. Did you run the auto calibration ?

nguyendot · December 2010

I didn't like the 1019ah-k, i bet the 1020 isn't much better as the amps seem identical. Let's see how the Onkyo goes.

polknewby · December 2010

1019 produced good sound for me - 23x25x9 ft. I run 12 gauge wire and COULD tell a diffence from 'bi-wiring' the fronts. But maybe it was just a fluke but everyone who listened before and after could tell too. True the 1019 and 1020 are no where close to being able to fully power the 70s, but should be able to get them crisp and and loud. Run hdmi whenever possible and run the auto set up. As far as the volume limit I've had line to -5 before and can listen to it fine at -40...

teadrunk · December 2010

Bi-amping off the receiver isn't doing you any favors aside from the crappy cd player. Also cables can make a difference too. Did you run the auto calibration ?

I did try auto calibration / MACC steps using the mic..But did seem to make much difference. It probably matters only for surround sound, when you have center,back or high etc. I did find that setting 'audio parameters' on the receiver like tone, bass, treble improves the output.
About Bi-amp, I am not totally convinced but on trying with and without I feel it was better with it.
I will try a new cd player for sure - pls do recommend / will check craigslist.

teadrunk · December 2010

Run hdmi whenever possible and

aah.. polknewby, you gave me the idea, to test my receiver/speakers, I will pull my samsung bluray player and connect to my vsx-1020 over hdmi and play my music cds.

nguyendot · December 2010

teadrunk wrote: »

aah.. polknewby, you gave me the idea, to test my receiver/speakers, I will pull my samsung bluray player and connect to my vsx-1020 over hdmi and play my music cds.

I doubt it will make a huge difference.

Also in terms of biamping, you aren't really biamping when you're using the same receiver, with the same power supply. It's passive biwiring at best.

What probably happened is you strengthened the connection from receiver to speaker when you loosened and tightened the connections. I biamped with my Denon 787 and my 1019 and wasn't impressed. I'll just get a bigger amp from now on.

polknewby · December 2010

I know that is not biamping and why I always said 'bi-wired' but the avr setup says biamp in the setup phase
How did the bluray sound with he CDs?

teadrunk · December 2010

The blueray did make it better, I suppose because the old cd player was not too good. So, in my case, I need to (1) get a better player (2) wait for break-in (3) retain the speaker setting as 'small' [maybe as I listen more I will find what I miss not hving it as 'large'].

About bi-amping, what I do is Bi-amping according to Pioneer, since separate connections/cables are used for front high and low speakers on each M70 tower (uses surround back output for low), each supposed to be fed by separate internal amplifiers. Certainly not as good as 2 physically separate amps, but I believe good enough to be not 'Bi-Wiring'.

polknewby · December 2010

I thimk what you are refering to is actually called Bi-Wiring, not Bi-Amping. I know that is what the AVR's manual calls it, but if what you are planning on doing is running a second set of speaker wire from your Surround Back L/R terminals on your AVR to the second set of binding posts on your speakers, that is Bi-Wiring. Your speakers get their power from the same power source on your AVR, and it isn't going to double the power by adding a second set of wires.
Correct me if im wrong but When you 'bi-amp you use a second source of power that drives the mid to lows while the avr supplies power for the tweeters. When I first hooked
my system up I called it 'bi-amping' and this is what the members explained it to me as.
Glad the sound is better and 'bi wiring' did make a big difference with mine too.

cfrizz · December 2010

Ron Temple wrote: »

Your AVR should go to at least +8. Reference level is usually auto-calibrated to -0. Your floor-standers are fairly efficient, but certainly represent more of a load than you bookshelf speakers.

Welcome! Agree with Ron, your receiver now has to work much harder to drive your floor-standing speakers. Add in the fact that receivers simply aren't able to give a vast majority of speakers the power that they need to drive them to their full potential, and you now see the results.

Make sure your receiver has plenty of room to get air, and start planning your next upgrades. A receiver with preouts for separate amplification and a separate amp.

Are Monitor 70s really "easy to drive"?

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