Warm, bright or neutral?

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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited October 2010
    kawizx9r wrote: »
    Rap/trance/hip hop isn't something I think anyone would listen to 'critically'

    .

    That is so wrong of you to say freddy because I have some cd's and I can tell slight diffs in the bass and highs when using diff components
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited October 2010
    Pretty much my 2 options right now are stick with the Yamaha and in a few months buy a serarate amp, or buy a HK 3600 or Marantz 7002 this weekend (wouldnt cost too much after selling my Yamaha) and reevaluate the sound. Either way by the end of the year i'll be running an amp anyways, it's just how long I can wait to get one.
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited October 2010
    By the way the tubes/hip hop debate has been keeping me entertained all day haha
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    That is so wrong of you to say freddy because I have some cd's and I can tell slight diffs in the bass and highs when using diff components

    No one said you can't hear differences, I was just wondering; who honestly sits down in front of their 2-channel rig/HT/etc and critically listen to said-music?

    I've listened to trance at raves, hip hop/r&b/rap at clubs. That type of music is generally party music and such. I know ALOT of hip hop/rap all talk about drinking/partying/women/etc (not all) but that's the majority of it.
    Truck setup
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,545
    edited October 2010
    B Run wrote: »
    Pretty much my 2 options right now are stick with the Yamaha and in a few months buy a serarate amp, or buy a HK 3600 or Marantz 7002 this weekend (wouldnt cost too much after selling my Yamaha) and reevaluate the sound. Either way by the end of the year i'll be running an amp anyways, it's just how long I can wait to get one.

    In my 37yrs in this hobby, I can tell you with confidence that trying to tame treble by replacing amps/receivers is going to be an (expensive) exercise in tail-chasing. By the time you get done trying to buy your way around this, you could have bought speakers that will give you what you're looking for.

    Seriously, think about it.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited October 2010
    Steveinaz is very correct .You could buy some polk lsi's for cheap and rock em with a external amp for the 4 ohm load

    Lsi's are very smooth as I have heard and they are practicaly giving them away on the polkdirect on ebay
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Lesson 3. Rap, trance or hip hop is not music.

    Come on Jesse, why do you not consider it music?? Who says you need a melody (and not a stolen one) to be considered music?;)

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited October 2010
    I think instead of buy amps/upgrading receivers i'm just going to wait until I can order an entire new setup and just do it right. Who knew picking up some cheap ol rt800's off craigslist 6 months ago would lead to this. I think my only problem is i'm done tricking out my cars and don't ride motocross anymore so my life is missing an endless money pit haha. I have definitely spent a lot of time lately getting back to my music and movies that I have thoroughly enjoyed ;)
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited October 2010
    steveinaz wrote: »
    In my 37yrs in this hobby, I can tell you with confidence that trying to tame treble by replacing amps/receivers is going to be an (expensive) exercise in tail-chasing. By the time you get done trying to buy your way around this, you could have bought speakers that will give you what you're looking for.

    Seriously, think about it.

    I experimented and went through 3 amps and 4 different AVRs in my HT rig with the same speakers - RTi series. For HT, it didn't matter, but I wanted my system to be listenable for music, too. I realize that it's not a reference music setup, but it sounds pretty darn nice to my ears now. I started with Yamaha and music listening sessions were relatively short - my ears just wore out and I'd get headaches. The sound now, beginning with a relatively cheaper HK AVR, is so much nicer. I mention cost, because in this case, it wasn't about $$ - as mentioned earlier, I think it was the HK "house sound", vice the Yamaha "house sound."

    My experience is not nearly so extensive, but for me, swapping electronics made a significant, noticeable difference. I liked these speakers and definitely wanted to make them work. It just took some playing around to get them to sound like they did when I auditioned them.
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited October 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    That is so wrong of you to say freddy because I have some cd's and I can tell slight diffs in the bass and highs when using diff components

    Are you saying you critically listen to Trance and Hip Hop?
    Like kawizx9r said I consider that music with a ? for parties. I have never sat back and said I think Jay Z would sound better if I had a nice tube Pre and Amp.

    And I will still contend that tubes are fast. I don't know what you were listening to but it wasn't set up correctly or the match between pre, amp and speakers was bad.

    Honestly I can tell differences in my 37yr OLD ears quite well. I like all types of music and listen to them in different ways. Jazz is nice first thing in the morning on a cool weekend day. Rock/Metal is my afternoon taste keeps me pumped up, and when I listen to hip hop it is loud usually in the car so I can hear the bump in the trunk.
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited October 2010
    Who says you can't listen to Trance critically??? lol

    I really do enjoy this type of music, and yeah sometimes I'll put it on my 2 channel and listen to it, but I'm normally also on my computer at the same time doing work etc and not really paying close attention.

    Most of my stuff that I really sit down and listen to is going to be rock, small group jazz, instrumental, etc as to me this is where I find the differences. Sometimes more of the house/chill music you can find differences.

    Trentmoller is more chill type music but its still electronic. I do listen to this a bit just to relax as I love the deep bass lines in the music, however its not something that everyone could listen to like this.

    and tubes can be great. I've heard them used in a HT set up before, sounded great. But everything does play into how the whole system sounds. Everything works with everything else.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited October 2010
    Tubes take the top off the electronic music like the french bands I listen to... air/justice/vitalic

    When it comes to tubes I say heck no to tecno

    I do alot of critical tecno listening in the lower registry and all the subtle textures layer'd over each other
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited October 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    Tubes take the top off the electronic music like the french bands I listen to... air/justice/vitalic

    Where do you get this stuff from? If you are using the right tube and the right tube gear tubes don't take anything away from anything. I've actually found the opposite. Tubes add more soul to the music and are actually more revealing and detailed than most mid level SS units.

    Of course YMMV

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited October 2010
    At low volume the tubes are not as bright
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited October 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    At low volume the tubes are not as bright

    Huh??? :confused:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,709
    edited October 2010
    Exactly what tube gear have you used and with what tubes?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited October 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Exactly what tube gear have you used and with what tubes?

    Obviously not much..........I'm guessing maybe one or two pieces of tube gear with crappy tubes.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2010
    I haven't had as much experience as Jesse or Brock or a good handful of these guys on CP, but in my personal experience alone I'd love to go all tubes.

    Never heard a tube amp/preamp take away from anything whether at high or low volumes or whether it's being used for 2-channel critical listening or HT.

    Just my .02
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    For Sale
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    Polk SR5250
    Polk SR104


    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,421
    edited October 2010
    My point is tubes are not a band aid and there are some crappy sounding tubes out there as well as poorly designed tube circuits. Tubes can be magical if they are implemented correctly (ie; correct tubes and proper circuit design) and can compliment the correct system.

    Again, tubes are not a band aid and should not be used that way.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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