Does the Denon DVD 2900 have the Chroma bug?

Shell
Shell Posts: 134
edited January 2004 in Electronics
and is it better then the 2800? Thanks for any help.
Post edited by Shell on
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited December 2003
    I have the 2800 and have no problems - very solid player. I have a problem with red hues but that is common with the projector I have.
    The 2900 is the latest and greatest though.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited December 2003
    The 2800 MKII had the worst chroma bug I have ever seen - on my system. It consistently ruined every DVD experience.

    The 2900 is CB-free (meaning the MPEG decoder does not introduce its own chroma upsampling errors), but it does suffer from the 4:2:0 interlaced chroma problem (ICP) like all DVD players.

    But the player itself works perfectly, and there isn't a law against improperly encoding the Chroma channel on a DVD so if you see it on the 2900, **** to the DVD/film maker. A few Disney DVDs and most notably the British made "Dog Soldiers" had Alternating Progressive Frame Flag Chroma encoding errors that the 2900 exposed mercilessly.

    Overall, the 2900 is IMO the finest universal player in its price class. It has been flawless and perfect in all formats - I love it.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Shell
    Shell Posts: 134
    edited December 2003
    Thanks for the quick responses. Now for a newbe question what does chroma error look like? Is this error intermittent or continuous during the movie? And why doesn't my cheap DVD player have this problem? Is it only in Progressive scan mode?
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2003
    Originally posted by Shell
    Now for a newbe question what does chroma error look like? Is this error intermittent or continuous during the movie? Is it only in Progressive scan mode?

    This thread may have some answers (scroll down to the last post for a pic and link):

    http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=66057#post66057post66057
    And why doesn't my cheap DVD player have this problem?

    Maybe it does...
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Shell
    Shell Posts: 134
    edited December 2003
    Thanks Shack, answered all my questions. :)
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited December 2003
    BEWARE - IGNORANCE IS BLISS - ONCE YOU KNOW WHAT THE CHROMA BUG IS YOU WILL START TO SEE IT IF YOUR DVD PLAYER HAS IT - PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!



    I love that line, Shack.

    Recent chroma bug disasters on the 2800 MKII included the U-571 opener, and a few scenes from Blade II, and Harry Potter II. It's all just a bad memory now........sailing free and clear in a CB-free sea of video bliss.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited December 2003
    I don't have the MK"II" model. I have the first one with the latest firmware. It was one of the highest rated player of its time. They still sell for around $300 used on ebay.
    I have yet to buy another progressive player for my projector but I may be surprised when I do???????
    Some of my blooming hue problems could be coming from my 2800.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited December 2003
    I'm not sure, Scott. I seem to recall the CB not being that bad on your system with your 2800.

    Surely the SI engine in the 2800 (same as in the 2900) gives a stellar PQ, but the 2800 MPEG decoder has the CB nonetheless.

    I wish I could have taken some screen shots of my HDTV with the 2800 MKII in the loop.

    Harry Potter's lips (yes his lips) were terribly afflicted with the CB in certain scenes. It almost looked like they were knitted shut with tiny horizontal lines - gross and very distracting.

    Pulp Fiction was another doozy..........the list goes on and on. After a while, it was all I was looking for - the green pen in Darkness Falls had it bad - I'm getting a torrent of CB flashbacks - I'd better quit before I go into convulsions.

    If you can live with the CB and/or it's not that noticeable on your display, all the more power to you.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited December 2003
    Thanks for the responce Doc.
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  • Shell
    Shell Posts: 134
    edited January 2004
    I should have never asked about the chroma bug. Ignorance truley is bliss in this case. Now I spend to much time looking for chroma artifacts on my old DVD player. My daughter was watching Toy Story and I kept pausing the screen to see if I could find a chroma error. She will no longer let me watch movies with her. LOL
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited January 2004
    Read this article for the differences between the Chroma Upsampling Error (aka the Chroma Bug), and the Interlaced Chroma Problem (ICP), which nearly all players suffer from.

    The ICP will only be noticeable when the DVD progressive-frame flag alternates between true and false every frame, when it really should have been set to "true" all the time.

    A vertical low pass filter in the de-interlacer will fix the ICP, and some DVD player manufacturers are now adding it. The 2900 does not have this filter.

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • dan t
    dan t Posts: 206
    edited January 2004
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  • dan t
    dan t Posts: 206
    edited January 2004
    Here's more info on that Chroma Bug problem on some DVD players.

    Chroma bug problem dvd players
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  • Shell
    Shell Posts: 134
    edited January 2004
    Dan, I noticed the 2900 was not on either list. Maybe this was made before the 2900 and 2200 were released.

    Thanks
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  • dan t
    dan t Posts: 206
    edited January 2004
    Good point. The list was compiled 12/2002 and both the DVD-2200 and DVD-2900 came out 5/2003. But, according to audioholics.com forum, neither dvd player suffers from the Chroma bug problem.

    Dan
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