Is there any point buying a powerful amp for low volume listening?
Comments
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Gordon I realy dont know where your coming from when you responded to my post with "I don't know what your intent was with your post but I have been completely honest and clear with this group. I owe no apology nor explanation especially to you." ????
After you suggested the B&K I simply googled the amp and your listing on CP was almost right at the top of the search . I have not waded my way through any of your past posts as you could check on who has last visited your profile
I simply responded very curtiously by paying you a compliment on the terrific equipment you have . I guess if I had any intent it would be to point out the coincidence of your recommendation -
I'm not looking for accolades from the group. I feel GOOD about what I have done for a couple folks here.
I don't know what PFB was getting at? Whatever it was, I don't care for it.
Gordon
Well you deserve the accolades and I believe you got your point across. The feel good is the reward for doing good!!! "You do good, you get good, do bad and you're screwed," karma is what she is.;) -
For your reference my amp is 30wpc and has 120,000uF of filter capacitance. (12) 10,0000uF caps w/ 6 per channel.
Wow, I guess you spent a lot money with those 12x10,000uf Mundorf caps 12x$30=$360 just for the power supply caps or are those the cheap ones?Make it simple...Make it better! -
Wow, I guess you spent a lot money with those 12x10,000uf Mundorf caps 12x$30=$360 just for the power supply caps or are those the cheap ones?
It's a commercial amp, more of a boutique amp, I guess (see my sig). Not Mundorf's. I believe they are Panasonic or ELNA. If they are good enough for Nelson Pass, then they are good enough for me.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Here's a great article to read debunking the myth about needing a lot of wpc to improve sound quality. Sure, if you are driving inefficient speakers in a larger room you will need more power. But just read the article closely. This is what sold me on buying a lower power class A amp. I was sincerely worried 30wpc wasn't going to be enough. But it is more than enough, by far.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0701/volksamp.htm
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/firstwatt3/alephj.html
I'm not suggesting everyone go out and buy this type of amp. They aren't for everyone, but just read and understand the parts, design and execution are far more critical than final printed specs.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
It's a commercial amp, more of a boutique amp, I guess (see my sig). Not Mundorf's. I believe they are Panasonic or ELNA. If they are good enough for Nelson Pass, then they are good enough for me.
Good amp! but if you see the inside, I would use "dual mono" power supply. using one power supply for each channel "transformer, bridge rectifier, and some kind of soft start" also I would use better caps. I guess mister Nelson wants to save some money too lol and those caps are just good but not good enough for the money He asks for his amps. I have seen mister Nelson in the forum I go diyaudio.com. He has very good designs.Make it simple...Make it better! -
Good amp! but if you see the inside, I would use "dual mono" power supply. using one power supply for each channel "transformer, bridge rectifier, and some kind of soft start". I guess mister Nelson wants to save some money too lol and those caps are just good but not good enough for the money He asks for his amps. I have seen mister Nelson in the forum I go diyaudio.com. He has very good designs.
Yeah, I'm sure you know more about amp building than he does :rolleyes::rolleyes:. And he does cut corners every time he builds an amp :rolleyes:. You are loosing serious credibility in my eyes. Have fun with your amp building.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Yeah, I'm sure you know more about amp building than he does :rolleyes::rolleyes:. And he does cut corners every time he builds an amp :rolleyes:. You are loosing serious credibility in my eyes. Have fun with your amp building.
H9
I never said I know more than He does but it is for SURE that He cuts corners.
But if you paid less than $2k I guess it is fine. since using dual mono power supply will cost him more money right.Make it simple...Make it better! -
Yeah, I'm sure you know more about amp building than he does :rolleyes::rolleyes:. And he does cut corners every time he builds an amp :rolleyes:. You are loosing serious credibility in my eyes. Have fun with your amp building.
H9
if you want to meet mister Nelson pass and see his DIY amps designs and share some points with him and other amp designers and many diy'rs just go to diyaudio.com. you will have a great time there.;)Make it simple...Make it better! -
Think we should revert back to the subject of suggesting polkfarmboy a good amp, while the rest of us just sit back and enjoy a beer and listen to the music
^^^^Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
^^^^
He fred I would worry more about hearingimpared and gordon swaying the thread offtopic with there geriatric posts:D -
They're good people, granted I've only been on the forum for a short while.
Have you thought about what amp you're going with?Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
It's a commercial amp, more of a boutique amp, I guess (see my sig). Not Mundorf's. I believe they are Panasonic or ELNA. If they are good enough for Nelson Pass, then they are good enough for me.
Nice! However is that a Van Alstine logo on the front? UGH! -
polkfarmboy wrote: »He fred I would worry more about hearingimpared and gordon swaying the thread offtopic with there geriatric posts:D
HUH!
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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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polkfarmboy wrote: »He fred I would worry more about hearingimpared and gordon swaying the thread offtopic with there geriatric posts:D
I, like Joe, also have to shrug my shoulders and say 'huh' here?
Geriatric posts? So experience and age = obsolescent? I don't believe there are many members who would agree with that.
An interesting discussion....with the 'Usual Suspects', i.e., SS vs. the TUBE! And, of course the TUBE has almost 'godlike status'. Poor SS, an amp for mere paupers, or worse yet....for NEWBs! Oh, the horror....the horror! Brought to you by don't forget to smile and laugh at yourself and remember when you were a 'NEWB'!!!
Because Everyone here was ONE.....ONCE?
Carry on!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
It's Volks Amp though it looks similar.VA were a licencee to produce certain Pass models.hearingimpared wrote: »Nice! However is that a Van Alstine logo on the front? UGH! -
Tubes rule. Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
No!!!
Hahaha, you hit that nail right on the head. For a guy who puts out some really lousy sounding amps he sure has a lot to say about cable "myths!" I've heard a couple of his amps, one was at Phil's, and I can tell you I had cotton in my ears to quell the bleeding!!!!:eek:
Disclaimer; not brand bashing here, just sharing my experience. -
It's Volks Amp though it looks similar.VA were a licencee to produce certain Pass models.
Thank goodness! Van Alstine amps are nerve grinders. Not brand bashing here, just sharing my experience. -
I, like Joe, also have to shrug my shoulders and say 'huh' here?
Geriatric posts? So experience and age = obsolescent? I don't believe there are many members who would agree with that.
An interesting discussion....with the 'Usual Suspects', i.e., SS vs. the TUBE! And, of course the TUBE has almost 'godlike status'. Poor SS, an amp for mere paupers, or worse yet....for NEWBs! Oh, the horror....the horror! Brought to you by don't forget to smile and laugh at yourself and remember when you were a 'NEWB'!!!
Because Everyone here was ONE.....ONCE?
Carry on!
cnh
Well if it makes anyone feel better the amp stage of my integrated is 350 wpc of clean, high current, SS power with tons of headroom. The preamp stage is pure tube bliss.
Again Polkfarmboy, HUH!?! -
hearingimpared wrote: »Well if it makes anyone feel better the amp stage of my integrated is 350 wpc of clean, high current, SS power with tons of headroom. The preamp stage is pure tube bliss.
Again Polkfarmboy, HUH!?!
You know I'm kidding Joe. But a nice gesture at compromise there!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
You know I'm kidding Joe. But a nice gesture at compromise there!
cnh
I know Constantine but I was just giving our boy PFB and example of "geriatrics!":D;)
BTW IMHO a tube pre matched with a really good solid state amp is a match made in heaven. Add to that a tubed CDP, a turntable and a great phono pre (solid state or tube) and you get a huge, ear to ear smile! -
Yeah, I'm sure you know more about amp building than he does :rolleyes::rolleyes:. And he does cut corners every time he builds an amp :rolleyes:. You are loosing serious credibility in my eyes. Have fun with your amp building.
H9
10-4.
Looks to me that it does have dual P/S for the two channels with two separate windings for the DC rails on the PT. Maybe not as sexy as "dual mono" all the way back to dual power transformers... but likely more than adequate. Kenwood and hk both used this "twin power" approach on some of their mid-grade amplifiers back in the 70s and 80s. -
polkfarmboy wrote: »I will be buying an amp soon but forgetting that a powerful amp is beneficial down the road for moving to a bigger room ,seakers etc .... Is there any other reason for choosing a 200 wpc over a 120wpc ?
Anything over a 100W/8 is fine, however keep in mind some manufacturers rate 100W/8 but when they are put on a bench and measured they are only 60-70W/8.[ Home Theater ] 3 x LC265i for LCR and LC80fx rears plus Velodyne DD15 subwoofer using Denon 3808a processor with custom 5 channel amplifier and Oppo BDP-83 player. -
I'm only seeing a single bridge rectifier.mhardy6647 wrote: »10-4.
Looks to me that it does have dual P/S for the two channels with two separate windings for the DC rails on the PT. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Nice! However is that a Van Alstine logo on the front? UGH!
No, the VA stenciling has to do with the company Nelson named to distribute the Aleph line at that time, it stands for Volksamp.
At the time Nelson believed, based on the critical success and sales success of the original Aleph series, that he wanted to make a high end amp "for the people", a great sounding amp that could be affordable to a large portion of audiophiles, so he came up with the name as a play on the "Volkswagen" which was intended to be a car "for the people". Hence the name Volksamp. These were all made in house (Forest Hills, CA.) and last production units like mine used the very same chassis the First Watt amps used then and today.
The "name" was only a partial success as after so many were produced he found it was more successful to market them with "Pass" stenciled on the front rather than "Volksamp" so the VA stenciling stayed but the "Pass Aleph 30" was added. It's my understanding these were made at the same Pass Labs facility as First Watt amps. Volksamp was really never a separate entity, but Pass Labs itself.
Volksamp was a name just like First Watt that was under the Pass Labs umbrella. That's the information I have.
Sorry for the derail, but atleast we are generally on the subject..
Lanchile, I'm well aware of the Pass Labs forum on DIYAUDIO and I have corresponded with Nelson several times with many different questions, etc. But thank you for pointing that out.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Yeah Fred cleared that up for me Brock. If I was Mr. Pass I wouldn't want anything to remotely link me to Van Alstine i.e., not even a close looking logo.
Disclaimer; again not brand bashing just sharing experience. -
The only point for my posts about the Aleph and the articles I linked too is to show you can buy a high quality, lower power amp that sounds fantastic, will drive almost anything and it won't cost you an arm and a leg. It's more about design, parts quality and execution.
Nothing more, nothing less
YMMV
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
The only point for my posts about the Aleph and the articles I linked too is to show you can buy a high quality, lower power amp that sounds fantastic, will drive almost anything and it won't cost you an arm and a leg. It's more about design, parts quality and execution.
Nothing more, nothing less
YMMV
H9
I believe the above in bold has been stated numerous times in thread by you, me and several others. That's statement is the long and short of what to look for in an amp.:)
