Bi-wire??

psuie23 · November 2003

I have RT2000 fronts and a CS400 center. Currently I am using the metal brackets to connect the high and the low. Is it worth wild to get some 14-4 wire to really bi-wire it...or would the gain be negligible?

pjdami · November 2003

Depends. Some people hear a difference others don't. Best thing to do is try it out for yourself. Its relatively cheap and something fun to try out.

I do the biwire thing on my rigs.

Got biwire? (got milk??)

P.

Fireman99 · November 2003

Not even 2 weeks ago i sat on the same fence your on now. I tried it and am GLAD I did I definatly can hear a diff and the wife can hear it aswell.
I tried it with 1 front first and switched between left and right ch and I could hear the diff. Went right out and got another length of Biwire for the center.
Next step Biamping the 150's
Dan

psuie23 · November 2003

Thanks guys...I'll order some biwire

jay

Fireman99 · November 2003

NP let us know if you hear a diff!
Dan

psuie23 · December 2003

I went into my friendly neighborhood tweeter to get the cable today...and he tried to steer me away. I explained that i currently use 10 or 12 g wire on my fronts with the metal connector. I asked about going to 14/4, and he said the impact would be negative. The only way i would get a positive impact, would be to get the monster bi wire...the thick shielded stuff that is made to get the special clips on the ends. Is that what you used?

danger boy · December 2003

it opened up my highs some.. that was the biggest difference i noticed.

psuie23 · December 2003

what wire did you use...if i may ask?

organ · December 2003

psuie,
When you mentioned "metal connector", are you talking about the metal jumpers that connect the upper and lower speaker terminals? If you haven't done so, replace them with speaker cables. You'll hear a difference.

Not all systems will benifit from bi-wiring. My Dyna amp sounds better using single wire and my NAD amp sounds better bi-wired. You never know until you try.

Also, I think that salesman is trying to make some extra cash by trying to get you to purchase the thick Monster stuff. Even with the lower line cables, you are increasing the surface area for electron flow when you run two sets of wire. The system is either bi-wired or not. If your system is capable of sounding better bi-wired, you don't need $200 cables to hear the difference. Just try a set of 14 or 16 gauge for the high frequency and use the 12 gauge you have now for the low freq.

Maurice

psuie23 · December 2003

perhaps i will try to get some wire and do some experimentation.

I have never tried to bi-wire before. The ends that meet at the receiver....do you twist the two wires together, or leave the separate?

RVJII · December 2003

I personally sat on this fence a few weeks ago as well. I decided to go with the bi-wire setup since at worst it gives you the equivalent of 3 gauges lower. (i.e. if you use 10 gauge pairs it is like using a single 7 gauge run.)

In the end, it comes down to your ear. There are many people here who will argue both ways. (I used to be against it myself.) The way I looked at it was that I have spent a good amount of cash on my gear so what is a few extra bucks for some wire.

danger boy · December 2003

you can use almost any kind of wire.... but i recommend at least a 16guage... better yet.. 14 or 12guage.

I use a Monster Z2 bi-wire cable.

PolkThug · December 2003

Originally posted by psuie23
The ends that meet at the receiver....do you twist the two wires together, or leave the separate?

Yes, twist them together at the receiver end, or use a connector that can accomodate both wires. BTW, I bi-wired my Rti70's with 16g, and personally, I could hear only a slight difference, but my girlfriend could really hear a difference, under blind testing conditions she could easily tell which speaker was bi-wired.

Anyway, make for a nice cheap tweak.

Regards,
PolkThug

psuie23 · December 2003

All -

I tried doing some experimentation last night. I bi-wired one of my speakers and connected it to the b speaker output on my receiver. Unfortunately, due to the type of connector, I couldn't use too big a wire *i.e. around 16 g* I then compared a speaker to b speaker and saw a negative impact. Wasn't terribly clear...almost sounded hollow. I don't know if it was a sum of unideal circumstances...but the experiment didn't go so well for me.

I did change my connector between hi and low input to wire vs the metal bracket...and I did prefer the wire.

PolkThug · December 2003

I've got a dumb question, does your receiver put out the same amount of wattage to A and B? I did my testing with just A speakers, left vs. right.

Trying doing your A and B test with both speakers wired normally and see if you still get the hollow effect.

Regards,
PolkThug

danger boy · December 2003

Hmmmm? interesting. i would connect the wires to your main connectors.. and not to the "B" onces. two wires to black and two wires to red..

you can also run those same two pairs of wires.. and leave the metal jumpers in place.. while it's not bi wiring.. some people also hear a slight increase because of the increased current flow to them.

Tour2ma · December 2003

Originally posted by danger boy
you can also run those same two pairs of wires.. and leave the metal jumpers in place.. while it's not bi wiring.. some people also hear a slight increase because of the increased current flow to them.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat???

...
Just be sure both wires are ++/--.... don't want to cross 'em up... Best to wire without the jumpers first as a safeguard. If all sounds right, ie., in phase, you can safely add the jumpers back in.

As for the use of the A/B speaker option, it should yield the same result as bi-wiring from a single pair of amp terminals, but because it brings different pre-amp circuits into play, it may not. Here I am specifically thinking of the speaker selector switch. If you have seldom or never used the "A + B" or "Both" setting, the contacts may not be clean. Take them out of the equation by installing both wire to the "A" terminals as db suggests.

Lastly, and I believe you may have already come to this conclusion, don't jump right to the expense of a 14 x 4 purchase, MC or otherwise. Just buy more of the 12 ga you are already using. This both keeps the cost down and estanblishes a baseline for juging future wire "upgrades".

ezc · December 2003

Try running a seccond pair of wires to each speaker. Remove the jumpers & see if you hear a difference. I have tried bi wires & have not gone back to single since. My fronts are all bi wired with Z2 Bi wire. My system sounds more full, soundstage opened up & there is more detail.

danger boy · December 2003

Originally posted by ezc
Try running a seccond pair of wires to each speaker. Remove the jumpers & see if you hear a difference. I have tried bi wires & have not gone back to single since. My fronts are all bi wired with Z2 Bi wire. My system sounds more full, soundstage opened up & there is more detail.

finally someone with the same exact wires i have.. Z2 Monster bi wires and got the same results. Improvement in soundstage. and more detail in the upper end..

I didn't get that same improvement when i was running Monster XP in a bi wire situation.. only when i went with the Z2's.

psuie23 · December 2003

Originally posted by ezc
Try running a seccond pair of wires to each speaker. Remove the jumpers & see if you hear a difference. I have tried bi wires & have not gone back to single since. My fronts are all bi wired with Z2 Bi wire. My system sounds more full, soundstage opened up & there is more detail.

Maybe I am not understanding you, but this is what i tried with my a and b speakers. It had a negative impact in that scenario.

ezc · December 2003

DB
I was using monster Z1 wires than added a legnth of XP to the Z1. I ran theZ1 to the lower post & the XP to the upper post. The improvement was noticible. But when I went to the Z2 BAM the speakers woke up! psuie23 do you have anyone near you that has a pair of good bi wire speaker cable you could try? You got the 2000 which has if I remember right has two 8" woofers a 6.5" mid & a trilam tweeter. Is the cable going to the low terminal large enough or does the receiver or amp have enough power to drive the 2000's as they want to be driven? I would think the 2000 would like more power than say a rt800i due to driving 2 woofers & a mid. I dont know anyone with the 2000 so I couldnt say if its better bi wired. My rt800i & my current lsi15 both sounded better bi wired. Oh just thaught of somthing isnt the 2000 subs powered? If it is how is the subs wired line level or lfe? It could be with this type of speaker that uses a powered sub it may sound better wired standard, since the lows are powered & there is only one mid driver. just my thaughts.

amulford · December 2003

I have some 2000's. I run a custom lfe to the pre-in and some Monster 12 xp (200 watts) to the high side with the jumpers out.

You can't be in the same room if you crank them all the up. It's exquisitely painful...;)

Bi-wire??

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