Settings for Onkyo 807 after running Audyssey?

keeneyrm01
keeneyrm01 Posts: 80
edited June 2010 in Electronics
I set up my new 807 and ran audyssey, which ended up setting all my speakers at low levels (-6db fronts, -7 center, ect.) and it seems to work really well for blu-rays. Having the volume at -5db is very loud and 0db is pretty insane. But when i switch over to the cd player or ipod input i really have to crank up the volume more than i would of though, like up to +8db before it starts to get to a pretty loud level. This is also in a small basement room.
My real question is, is that not good for the amp for it to be cranked up that high without putting out a lot of volume or does it not matter. I always went by the philosophy of the less you needed to crank up the volume level, the less distortion and cleaner power would be going to the speakers, but i don't know if these kinds of receivers work that way. I messed around with the intelivolume feature and set it +10db for the cd player and ipod so it would be the same loudness at like 0db or a little lower, but i wasn't sure if that was the right thing to do either.
Any input on the matter would be appreciated. Thanks.
HT basement room:
TV- 42in Panasonic S1 Plasma
A/V Receiver- Onkyo NR807
Blu-Ray- 80GB Sony PS3
Power Supply- Monster HTS-1600
5 Disc Sony CD/DVD Changer
Time Warner HD Cable Box
Speakers:
Front- Polk RTi A3
Center- Polk CSi3
Side Surround- Polk RTi4
Back Surround- Polk RM6750
Sub- Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX
Bedroom:
32in Visio LCD, Sony STR-DE685 AVR, MTX Monitor 12, Sony 5 disc DVD changer
Post edited by keeneyrm01 on

Comments

  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited June 2010
    I would think switching the AVR to the PURE AUDIO mode for 2 channel listening would 'defeat' the Audessey settings and return you to normal levels. I haven't checked this myself. But is seems logical?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • over50
    over50 Posts: 201
    edited June 2010
    Check out a post by "kuntasensei" from 2-8-10.. this post go`s into detail everything you want to know about Audyssey.
    Marantz SR 7007
    polkaudio RTi10
    polkaudio CSi A6
    polkaudio RTiA3
    B&K ST.3140 Power Amplifier
    HSU Research VTF2 MK3
    Vizio P65-C1
    Panasonic 605 blu ray
    Onkyo DS-A4 i-pod Dock
    Universal Remote
    BDI Icon 9429 TV Stand
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited June 2010
    keeneyrm01 wrote: »
    I set up my new 807 and ran audyssey, which ended up setting all my speakers at low levels (-6db fronts, -7 center, ect.) and it seems to work really well for blu-rays. Having the volume at -5db is very loud and 0db is pretty insane. But when i switch over to the cd player or ipod input i really have to crank up the volume more than i would of though, like up to +8db before it starts to get to a pretty loud level. This is also in a small basement room.
    My real question is, is that not good for the amp for it to be cranked up that high without putting out a lot of volume or does it not matter. I always went by the philosophy of the less you needed to crank up the volume level, the less distortion and cleaner power would be going to the speakers, but i don't know if these kinds of receivers work that way. I messed around with the intelivolume feature and set it +10db for the cd player and ipod so it would be the same loudness at like 0db or a little lower, but i wasn't sure if that was the right thing to do either.
    Any input on the matter would be appreciated. Thanks.

    Audyssey sets the level trims so that 0 on the volume reading equals the level that movies are typically mixed at (i.e. "reference level", or 105dB peaks from main channels, 115dB peaks from LFE).

    As to your CD player, are you running analog or digital? Because I'm running the TX-NR1007, and I have the opposite issue. My typical movie playback level is -15dB and CD playback level is typically -25dB without any use of Intellivolume.

    Give me more info about your setup. What kind of speakers/sub? Because honestly, -5 to 0 is a bit on the high side for volume. My system will do it, but you wouldn't want to be in the room for very long with it cranked that high.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited June 2010
    Kuntasensei,

    I haven't been near my Onkyo for over a year now...but concerning the PURE AUDIO setting...are you saying that Audyssey corrections are still operating in true two channel sound?

    If so, at least any equalization introduced by Audyssey should be shut off in Pure Audio...no?

    Are the volume settings unaffected? I honestly don't 'remember'??

    Thanks..

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited June 2010
    cnh wrote: »
    Kuntasensei,

    I haven't been near my Onkyo for over a year now...but concerning the PURE AUDIO setting...are you saying that Audyssey corrections are still operating in true two channel sound?

    If so, at least any equalization introduced by Audyssey should be shut off in Pure Audio...no?

    Are the volume settings unaffected? I honestly don't 'remember'??

    Thanks..

    cnh

    Pure Audio should bypass all the AVR processing - Audyssey, distance/delay, etc. included. Not sure if it bypasses Intellivolume adjustments, but there still shouldn't be a huge difference in level between Pure Audio and Stereo (which is what you'd use for 2-channel with all the Audyssey stuff still in place). Audyssey's corrections also shouldn't create a huge discrepancy between the two as the OP is seeing.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • keeneyrm01
    keeneyrm01 Posts: 80
    edited June 2010
    Yeah I'm using analog for the cd player and ipod input. I know that 0db is supposed to be reference level for the room after calibration but i don't know if its because the room is so small but it just doesn't seem very loud at that level. Its pretty loud when i get to about -5db for lossless format blu-rays but for music it just seem like i have to crank it up so much more and im afraid thats gunna cause the amp to over work itself.

    For example, if i were to plug my ipod into any type of stereo and only turn the ipod's volume up half way, then the amp would have to be cranked up way too much at any volume level and cause distortion... I'm afraid having the speaker trim levels cut down to -7 would be this same type of thing, having to turn the volume level up too much to compensate for it.

    And on the other topic, i think the pure audio mode cuts all processing and equalizing and video circuits but it keeps the settings for the trim levels... I think..
    HT basement room:
    TV- 42in Panasonic S1 Plasma
    A/V Receiver- Onkyo NR807
    Blu-Ray- 80GB Sony PS3
    Power Supply- Monster HTS-1600
    5 Disc Sony CD/DVD Changer
    Time Warner HD Cable Box
    Speakers:
    Front- Polk RTi A3
    Center- Polk CSi3
    Side Surround- Polk RTi4
    Back Surround- Polk RM6750
    Sub- Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX
    Bedroom:
    32in Visio LCD, Sony STR-DE685 AVR, MTX Monitor 12, Sony 5 disc DVD changer
  • keeneyrm01
    keeneyrm01 Posts: 80
    edited June 2010
    Oh and i have Polk RTi A3 fronts, CSi3 center, RTi4 sides, RM6500 rears, and PSW- 111 sub. The room is in a basement 20Lx13Wx7H. The listening position is set up facing the width way in a 13x11 area. I watch black hawk down in 5.1 uncompressed PCM at -5db and it didn't seem excessively loud at all, i would expect it a bit louder at that level.
    HT basement room:
    TV- 42in Panasonic S1 Plasma
    A/V Receiver- Onkyo NR807
    Blu-Ray- 80GB Sony PS3
    Power Supply- Monster HTS-1600
    5 Disc Sony CD/DVD Changer
    Time Warner HD Cable Box
    Speakers:
    Front- Polk RTi A3
    Center- Polk CSi3
    Side Surround- Polk RTi4
    Back Surround- Polk RM6750
    Sub- Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX
    Bedroom:
    32in Visio LCD, Sony STR-DE685 AVR, MTX Monitor 12, Sony 5 disc DVD changer
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited June 2010
    keeneyrm01 wrote: »
    Oh and i have Polk RTi A3 fronts, CSi3 center, RTi4 sides, RM6500 rears, and PSW- 111 sub. The room is in a basement 20Lx13Wx7H. The listening position is set up facing the width way in a 13x11 area. I watch black hawk down in 5.1 uncompressed PCM at -5db and it didn't seem excessively loud at all, i would expect it a bit louder at that level.

    In my experience, PCM tracks typically seem quieter than TrueHD or DTS-MA tracks. Never figured out why, but it's true of every BD I've played that had PCM. As to the difference between digital and analog levels, I can't say, as I've never hooked up anything to my 1007 via analog. I'm letting my Oppo feed CD-audio, SACD, etc. digitally over HDMI. Still, I guess there could be a big discrepancy between the analog and digital levels. Intellivolume can help change each input to give you a more consistent level across all inputs.

    You have solid speakers that should be pretty efficient, so they shouldn't take much to drive them to high levels. The only weakness I see in your system is your subwoofer, which sadly doesn't extend much deeper than your other speakers and is woefully inadequate for digital soundtracks because its -3dB point is 42Hz. You aren't getting any of the subsonic information that's in modern soundtracks. That could explain why you're having to turn the volume up so high to get the perceived loudness that you're looking for - your system can't play back the sub-40Hz audio that makes up a great deal of the visceral part of modern soundtracks. I guarantee you that if you had a subwoofer that hits cleanly down to 20Hz, you wouldn't be listening to the Irene chapter of Black Hawk Down at -5dB from reference. :p

    Not having a sub that can go lower than 42Hz with authority also means that you're missing out on the advantage of Audyssey's DynamicEQ with respect to perceived loudness at lower volume levels.

    The speaker trims are there to get all channels to reach reference when volume is at 0. The actual range of the volume control goes up to +18 with all channel trims zeroed, so there's still room above that and you're not at risk of overdriving anything. The question is mostly about what the line output power is of your CD player and the iPod... which you can vary with the volume control on the iPod, but unless your CD player has built-in volume controls, you're stuck with whatever its line level voltage is and will have to compensate in the AVR.

    It certainly won't hurt anything if you have to set volume up near 0 to get decent levels in your room with analog inputs... but it is definitely unusual, and could make your system more susceptible to noise. What are you using for a CD player? And how do CDs played in your Blu-ray player via digital sound by comparison?

    (But more than anything, I have to stress this: You need a better subwoofer, especially for that size area. Your current sub has neither the power for that size room nor the extension to fully reproduce digital soundtracks. Make your next upgrade a subwoofer from SVS, Hsu, or ED and I guarantee you'll put a big-**** smile on your face and any concerns about volume levels will be GONE.)
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited June 2010
    By the way, regardless of what Audyssey set the crossovers at for your speakers, I highly recommend changing everything but your rear surrounds to 80Hz.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen