Real Confused on Receivers!

RUSigX · April 2010

I need to buy a new receiver although I had initially thought about buying seperates. What are some good newer model receivers with enough power to push the LSi15s and other 4Ohm LSi speakers that I have for surround sound?

I see that Onkyo has the TX-NR5007 that says its 4ohm rated. My friend has a Denon 3808 that sounds really nice but I dont think hes using 4ohm speakers with it and I also heard the new Denon receivers are junk compared to the older models. How about Yamaha? I have heard of the NAD T785 as well which looks nice but how long have they been manufacturing it and is it a lot of bang for the buck?

Also, i'm running 5.1 right now but would buy a 7.1 receiver. Can a lot of the better receivers be used as a processor which you can add an external amp to later on? Since I have 4ohm speakers should I just use an exteranal amp instead of a receiver?

Thanks guys for the input!

cstmar01 · April 2010

Honestly I think most of the AVR's that would be 4 ohm are pretty expensive. I can't think of any lower models that offer the 4 ohm rating. I would say an amp will be your best bet in order to get the most out of your LSI's. Pio elites, the higher model denons, yahama, onkyo all make great pre/pros if you decide to go that route.
IMO I would look for a medium prices AVR that had all the bells and whistles that I wanted and get a nice amp. Most pre/pros are going to be more than these AVR's and then you can put more of that money into your amp. If you wanted good pre/pro look at Integra, they have about everything you could want at a decent price. Also the Onkyo pre/pro, and Anthem are awesome.

nooshinjohn · April 2010

The only one that pops to mind would be the Sunfire TGR3 or better, the TGR 401, but they are expensive to say the least and do not have the most currend decoding/HDMI built in. Better to get a good avr with pre-outs and use external amps as you originally planned.

danger boy · April 2010

although expensive.. buy a receiver then get a two or three channel amp for your fronts. that would be my choice if I was looking for a receiver.

RUSigX · April 2010

I didn't really think about it like that! I guess I could buy a used 5 channel Sunfire amp (200x5) and then if I wanted to go to 7.1 at some point I could just buy another 2 channel amp and I'm there right? Or sell the 5 channel and upgrade to a 7 channel for simplicity.

I just looked at the Rotel RSX-1560 receiver but now i'm leaning back towards seperates. Any models of Denons, Onkyos, Integra, Yamahas, pre/pros you all could suggest? What do they normally run($)? I thought I looked on Onkyo and Denons site but never saw any pre/pros only, just receivers with built in amps.

I have looked at some of the pre/pros out there like Sunfire etc and they are really pricey and as you guys said before...some of the technology isnt there (HDMI 1.3, etc).

nooshinjohn · April 2010

You CAN use a receiver as a pre/pro if it have preouts for an external amp. I would find one that has the features you like that has preouts. and then just get the amp you like.

PSOVLSK · April 2010

Good advice so far. What are you using for a DVD/Blu-Ray player? If it has analog outs, getting a new AVR/Pre- that decodes the new formats isn't important. Your answer to this question would probably determine what I would recommend.

cstmar01 · April 2010

nooshinjohn wrote: »

You CAN use a receiver as a pre/pro if it have preouts for an external amp. I would find one that has the features you like that has preouts. and then just get the amp you like.

agree. To me this is probably the cheapest route. I'm not sure what your looking for a budget but in terms of pre/pros and costs.

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?prea71ch&1275258178&&&/Amthem-AVM50

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?prea71ch&1273906116&&&/Integra-Dtc-9-8-Thx-Ultra-2-7-

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?prea71ch&1273083300&&&/Integra-Onkyo-DHC-80-1

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?prea71ch&1270840520&&&/Sunfire-Theater-Grand-TGP401

for some decent AVR's that can get the job done.

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1275001845&&&/Pioneer-Elite-SC-07

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1274987735&&&/ONKYO-TXNR5007

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1272130941&&&/NAD-T-747

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1271705526&&&/Yamaha-RXV665BL This one is cheap but would have all the latest decoding as preouts.

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1270606921&&&/Onkyo-TX-NR

Now these are on the used market. The seller Rand is acutally a dealer that is here in WI called Hi Fi Heaven. If you go to their store their price is no where close to these and they are brand new items.
There are many many more options you just have to see what you want.
Such as do you want HDMI pass through or do you want the signal to be upconverted? If you have a good source you can do HDMI pass through and get good results. ect

RUSigX · April 2010

My current setup is an LG 60" plasma, the latest DTV DVR, a Denon DVD-1910 with DVI out straight to TV HDMI, and a Sony DA3000ES receiver. I have all Polk LSi 4ohm speakers (5.1) except for the powered sub. The fronts are Polk LSi15s. It's time to upgrade the Sony definitely...and possibly the DVD player too?

I was thinking about either buying a new receiver or seperates. If I buy seperates I will most like have to go used. I'd like to spend maybe a $1,000 or less on something like a used Sunfire (200x5) amp and maybe somewhere in the $2,000 or less range on a used or new pre/pro. Maybe I need a new DVD player too? Not sure if I would need HDMI pass through or upconverted?

There is so much out there to look at I'm just trying to get the most bang for the buck with some good features, etc.

RUSigX · April 2010

cstmar01, I see you left a link to an Integra 80.1. I have been reading about those and they seem to get great reviews. Do you know what the differences are between the new 80.1 and the Integra 9.9? I know the 9.9 is now about half the price of the new 80.1. Thanks!

PSOVLSK · April 2010

RUSigX wrote: »

I'd like to spend maybe a $1,000 or less on something like a used Sunfire (200x5) amp and maybe somewhere in the $2,000 or less range on a used or new pre/pro.

If you're going to spend that kind of coin an AVR shouldn't even be in the discussion.

nooshinjohn · April 2010

RUSigX wrote: »

I was thinking about either buying a new receiver or seperates. If I buy seperates I will most like have to go used. I'd like to spend maybe a $1,000 or less on something like a used Sunfire (200x5) amp and maybe somewhere in the $2,000 or less range on a used or new pre/pro. Maybe I need a new DVD player too? Not sure if I would need HDMI pass through or upconverted?

On that budget, I would consider the Yamaha RX-z11 or the RX-z7 and a two channel amp for your mains at a later time. both of these Yami's are just about the best there is IMHO when it comes to their decoding abilities and their flexibility is amazing.:)

RUSigX · April 2010

What are the main differences on the Z11 vs Z7? I know the obvious that one is 11 channels and one is 7 but they seem to both be the same price at different places. I heard that the Z7 had a better picture? Have they been out a long time making the technology old? Will they handle the 4ohm speakers?

I was also looking at the Integra 80.1 as a pre/pro but would like to know how it compares to the 9.9 since its about half the price now. How about the Onkyo NR5007, how does it compare to the Yamahas? How about the Pioneer SC-25 or SC-27? I liked some of the older Denon stuff but heard the new stuff had cheap components and wouldnt run 4ohm speakers.

I like the idea of maybe picking up a nice two channel amp at a later date to run the LSi15s that I have. Lots to think about, please keep your comments/suggestions coming.

nooshinjohn · April 2010

RUSigX wrote: »

What are the main differences on the Z11 vs Z7? I know the obvious that one is 11 channels and one is 7 but they seem to both be the same price at different places. I heard that the Z7 had a better picture? Have they been out a long time making the technology old? Will they handle the 4ohm speakers?

The RX-z7 does have better video pass through, and may be the better choice between the two. I would buy used if you are comfortable with that and save a bunch of money that could be spent on a great two channel amp.
I think the Yamaha is just about the best there is on the decoding side of the ball, but Pioneer and Onkyo Integras are no slouches either.

I ran Yamaha exclusively for the better part of 20 years without a single problem of any kind. From an appearance standpoint, again the Yamaha has a very clean high-end look to it, whereas the Pioneer/Onkyo seem to look a bit more cluttered IMHO.

I do prefer the Yammy, but ultimately your ears will need to decide. If you are able to listen to them in person, I would do so because we are talking about a significant amount of coin here. It is worth a drive to see them for yourself.:)

cstmar01 · April 2010

The 80.1 is acutally a 9.2 channel while the 9.9 is only 7.1. The newer supports more HDMI connections and is 1080P/24 compatable while I think the other only supports 1080P/60 however I am not 100% sure on that.

Here is the information regarding the 80.1

http://integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DHC-80.1&class=Preamplifier&p=f

and the 9.9
http://integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DHC-9.9&class=Preamplifier&p=f

The 80.1 is going to have your "height" and "wide" channels while the other does not have this feature. There are some other things between the two and really comes down to if you want to pay for those extra features. Personally I do not care for the 9.2 and easily can accept the 7.1 as well as the the difference in price.

The yahama recommend is also good, however personally for me I have not heard the higher end yahama, but did not care for the yahama sound on the lower end models that I have had. Just MO

newsman · April 2010

I hate helping fellow audiophile, but I'll do it anyway

Go with separates, not only do you get better quality for a little bit of more money, but you don't have to trow away your amp when new digital format comes over. Case to the point, with Blu Ray 3D, your receiver would need to support HDMI 1.4. This is just an example, I understand that to most 3D is not a must. But with separates, you can just sell you pre and buy a new one that supports new format, while keeping your amp. There are cons to separates too, like buying interconnects between pre and amp. But after having both, I prefer separates.

digitalvideo · April 2010

Only the Pioneer Elite SC series lineup! :cool:

RUSigX · April 2010

Gents, I think I've pretty much made up my mind to go with seperates. As far as an amp to go with the Lsi15s I think I'm either going to go with a Sunfire (200x5) or a Rotel 1095 (200x5). From what I have read on here I am probably going to end up with the Sunfire. Anybody got one they would like to get rid of

? I'm thinking the Cinema Grand 200 or the TGA-5200. The 5200 is just a newer version right?

I was thinking about the Integra 9.9 as a pre/pro because they seem to have a lot of options and are relatively affordable used. I'm not sure I would pay double for the 80.1 especially since technology is changing so fast. Are there any other great options out there in the $800 - $1,500 range new or used? I definitely want something with HDMI 1.3, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback!

nooshinjohn · April 2010

I would grab the Rotel over the Sunfire. Did I just say that!!!:eek:

Seriously though, I don't think the Sunfire digs as deep on the bottom end if you go with the 5/200. I run the 5/400 in my HT rig and it is a fantastic performer. I am in the process of trying to separate my two channel from the HT setup, but the 5/400 is the one piece that will stay.

The Rotel would be my choice.:)

For the money, I would grab this as well....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RSP-1098-7-1-Processor-Preamp-w-HDMI-LCD-Screen_W0QQitemZ120551813751QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c1172b277

Enjoy!

John

RUSigX · April 2010

Hey John, I just took a look at that RSP-1098 and its definitely a cool looking unit. What's it probably 7 years old or so? I see that is has the HDMI 1.3 upgrade with 3 in and 1 out. I'm not sure what that unit will go for right off? How do you think it would compare to something newer like the Integra 9.8 or 9.9? They run about $1k.

I can pick up a used Rotel for about the same price as a used Sunfire...choices, choices, choices

... I have heard good things about both.

cnh · April 2010

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I would grab the Rotel over the Sunfire. Did I just say that!!!:eek:

Seriously though, I don't think the Sunfire digs as deep on the bottom end if you go with the 5/200. I run the 5/400 in my HT rig and it is a fantastic performer. I am in the process of trying to separate my two channel from the HT setup, but the 5/400 is the one piece that will stay.

The Rotel would be my choice.:)

For the money, I would grab this as well....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RSP-1098-7-1-Processor-Preamp-w-HDMI-LCD-Screen_W0QQitemZ120551813751QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c1172b277

Enjoy!

John

Man are you back-sliding John,

First you're trashing your beloved SDA-SRSs, now you're going Rotel over Carver? What's next? lol

cnh

nooshinjohn · April 2010

The last I checked, the 1098 was still a current piece from them, so it should be a pretty good way to go. I expect that it will go in the 1k range. The display on the front is also a mini-monitor.

nooshinjohn · April 2010

cnh wrote: »

Man are you back-sliding John,

First you're trashing your beloved SDA-SRSs, now you're going Rotel over Carver? What's next? lol

cnh

The CAT scan revealed I suffer from Upgraditus. I am afraid it is incurable. Unfortunately I do not qualify for disability benefits, so I actually have to work and trade gear to support my disease.:eek::D;)

cstmar01 · April 2010

cnh wrote: »

Man are you back-sliding John,

First you're trashing your beloved SDA-SRSs, now you're going Rotel over Carver? What's next? lol

cnh

Bose. The last name in audio.

and he can donate me all his gear!

RUSigX · April 2010

Well looks like i just bought a Sunfire TGA-5200 amp. I got it from a dealer who said it was brand new and the box had been opened but that was it. I made him an offer on it and he took so looks like i've got one on the way. Now I need to mate it up with a good pre/pro. I see that Rotel on ebay is up to $700+ already

.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RSP-1098-7...item1c1172b277

polkfarmboy · April 2010

RUSigX wrote: »

Gents, I think I've pretty much made up my mind to go with seperates. As far as an amp to go with the Lsi15s I think I'm either going to go with a Sunfire (200x5) or a Rotel 1095 (200x5). From what I have read on here I am probably going to end up with the Sunfire. Anybody got one they would like to get rid of ? I'm thinking the Cinema Grand 200 or the TGA-5200. The 5200 is just a newer version right?

I was thinking about the Integra 9.9 as a pre/pro because they seem to have a lot of options and are relatively affordable used. I'm not sure I would pay double for the 80.1 especially since technology is changing so fast. Are there any other great options out there in the $800 - $1,500 range new or used? I definitely want something with HDMI 1.3, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Why not buy a brand new emotiva umc1 for $699
They give you a big discount of new tech they release next time around and they sell faster than anthying Ive saw on the used market
http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

I dont think the integra 9.9 would sound diffrent than the dhc 80 when it comes to bluray 7.1

The only diff between the 9.9 and 9.8 is that you can assign independent video color calibration settings to each of the specified hdmi inputs

cstmar01 · April 2010

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Why not buy a brand new emotiva umc1 for $699
They give you a big discount of new tech they release next time around and they sell faster than anthying Ive saw on the used market
http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

I dont think the integra 9.9 would sound diffrent than the dhc 80 when it comes to bluray 7.1

The only diff between the 9.9 and 9.8 is that you can assign independent video color calibration settings to each of the specified hdmi inputs

The UMC-1 has had bugs with it. That is why I didn't recommend it. Some people really like them, others find them very annoying and are going back to AVR's or othe pre/pros. The price is great however I do not know if they have finally got a firmware without bugs and also if they finally got the manual out.

nooshinjohn · April 2010

cstmar01 wrote: »

The UMC-1 has had bugs with it. That is why I didn't recommend it. Some people really like them, others find them very annoying and are going back to AVR's or othe pre/pros. The price is great however I do not know if they have finally got a firmware without bugs and also if they finally got the manual out.

+1 to the bugs issue...

nhhiep · April 2010

deleted

DMara · April 2010

cnh wrote: »

Man are you back-sliding John,

First you're trashing your beloved SDA-SRSs, now you're going Rotel over Carver? What's next? lol

cnh

cstmar01 wrote: »

Bose. The last name in audio.

and he can donate me all his gear!

I'd say white-van Panamax

RUSigX · April 2010

What a great price point on the UMC-1, but I dont need any bug issues

. I'm thinking real hard about the Integra 9.8. Looks like I can pick one up for around $900 or so. I think there is little difference in it and the 9.9. Thoughts? Any other up to date used pre/pros out there in the $1k or less range.

What are some good cables for the audio from the pre/pro to the amp?

Real Confused on Receivers!

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