Power conditioners?

mdaudioguy
mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
edited March 2010 in Electronics
I've got a Crutchfield gift card that I need to put to use...

Monster HDP 1800 or HTS 3600 MKII,
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_119HDP1800/Monster-HDP-1800.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1193600MK2/Monster-Power-HTS-3600-MKII.html?

Furman S-5500,
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_756S5500/Furman-S-5500.html

or Panamax MAX 4300-PM?
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_299M4300PM/Panamax-MAX-4300-PM.html

I'll be plugging my AVR, DVD player, PS3, Samsung DirecTV box, and Squeezebox receiver into one of these. All I currently use is a surge protector. I haven't decided whether or not to plugs my amps into one of these or leave them connected directly to an outlet.
Post edited by mdaudioguy on
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 18,006
    edited February 2010
    Out of the 4 you picked I say get the monster 3600
    if you could spend a little more go for a Panamax 4400 or 4500
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,959
    edited February 2010
    The 3600 does make an improvement.....at least it did in my rig. That said, it's about ready to hit the door because when it is running, you can hear it when the music dies down or stops. That's just as annoying to me as the issue it corrected.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    The 3600 does make an improvement.....at least it did in my rig. That said, it's about ready to hit the door because when it is running, you can hear it when the music dies down or stops. That's just as annoying to me as the issue it corrected.

    I've read that elsewhere too. Others have said no noise at all. Perhaps it depends on how hard it has to work to do its job? Just a guess. I really have no experience with these things. :confused:
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,959
    edited February 2010
    When I got it [used], it had some noise to it. Not as bad as it is right now but still noticeable. I'm guessing that they get louder as time marches on. The 1600 was dead silent but it didn't do the job.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    Or, will a power strip like this do the basically the same thing?
    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_119HDP900G/Monster-GreenPower-HDP-900G-PowerCenter.html
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,959
    edited February 2010
    Save your money.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited February 2010
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Or, will a power strip like this do the basically the same thing?
    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_119HDP900G/Monster-GreenPower-HDP-900G-PowerCenter.html

    Much bigger transformer in the larger units.

    here's the guts of an APC http://s.fatwallet.com/static/attachments/16090_h15b.jpg
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited February 2010
    This is the one I use, it has lots of outlets and plenty of switching options. During a recent snowstorm, the power went out and when it came back on we had a large surge and the power center did it's job, and went into protect mode.

    This unit is discontinued so you might find it at a bargain.

    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1195100MK2/Monster-Power-HTS-5100-MKII.html?search=monster+hts+5100&ssi=0&tp=568



    Jimmy
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Save your money.
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Much bigger transformer in the larger units.[/url]
    Got it. I think I'll go for the Monster 3600. If it makes noise when I plug it in, Crutchfield will get it back!
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    I'll be plugging my AVR, DVD player, PS3, Samsung DirecTV box, and Squeezebox receiver into one of these. All I currently use is a surge protector. I haven't decided whether or not to plugs my amps into one of these or leave them connected directly to an outlet.
    Let's say I decide to plug all of the above, plus my 2 amps into one of these power conditioners... I'm assuming that's how these things are designed, so that's ok. As it is right now, everything's plugged into one outlet, so I guess there's really no difference. This is one of only two outlets in use on this circuit - the other one has my sub plugged into it. I'm just trying to get some tips to optimize my setup, since I have little knowledge of power issues related to this kind of equipment.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,959
    edited February 2010
    I have always plugged the amps directly into the wall to yield the best results.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Never give Monster any money for anything. There are plenty of alternatives for any of their products.

    Well, seeing what my choices are (based on the fact that I only have $$ to spend at Crutchfield), which do you suggest? Do you have experience with any of these brands?
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited February 2010
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I have three Panamax units; 2 5300EXs, and a 5300-PM. A couple of years ago I was having a problem in my breaker box (although at the time I did not know this is where the problem was) between the breaker for the spa, and the breaker my HT gear is on. I was listening to music in the HT, and was watching the voltage meter on the Panamax bounce around between 120 and 93 volts, and all values in between. I was wondering what was the problem, but everything connected to the Panamax was working great, even while the lights were flickering. At one point, the voltage dropped below 90, and the Panamax immediately shut everything down with no issues. It turns out 90v is the threshold they use for low voltage.

    How does the 5300EX and 5300PM compare to the Panamax Panamax M5400-PM? I'm thinking of buying one for my basement HT.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    I have always plugged the amps directly into the wall to yield the best results.

    That's been my experience too.
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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited February 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    That's been my experience too.

    Im confused....why is this?

    Thanks, David
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    I'm no expert here, but I've read similar things elsewhere. My understanding is that plugging an amp directly into the wall allows for the unrestricted flow of electricity. I'm unsure as to the effect of a power conditioner on an amp. :confused:
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited February 2010
    Knucklehead wrote: »
    Im confused....why is this?

    Thanks, David

    Many power conditioners will "choke" the power coming out of it. My Richard Gray will pass a full 20 amps which is adequate for my amps which draw 6 amps each. Granted, they can exceed that on peaks, but I seldom run it that hard to top out.

    Most conditioners can only pass 15 amps. Total up the amperage draw of pieces plugged in and try and keep the total at 75% of available power.

    Gordon
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited February 2010
    The power conditioners that get the best reviews by audiphile magazines/websites for improving sound are from:

    Balanced Power Technology (BPT) http://www.b-p-t.com/

    Chang Lightspeed http://www.changlightspeed.com/
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    Knucklehead wrote: »
    Im confused....why is this?

    Thanks, David

    With the Monster units (at least the ones I've owned) there are current limiting circuits inside thus keeping the amp from performing at it peak level.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    I ordered the Monster 3600 MkII (sorry Blue Fox :o), as it seemed to be the best bargain from Crutchfield in my price range. However, I will evaluate it and if I'm not satisfied, I'll probably step up to something like the Panamax 5100. As far as I'm concerned, that's probably the top end of what my existing equipment deserves! ;) I'm planning on leaving my amps plugged directly into the wall outlet.
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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited February 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    With the Monster units (at least the ones I've owned) there are current limiting circuits inside thus keeping the amp from performing at it peak level.

    Gotcha.....I guess plugging the amp into a surge suppressor is acceptable.
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
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    Panasonic 42" Plasma
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    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
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  • chiptouz
    chiptouz Posts: 152
    edited February 2010
    I like the monster 3600
    Sharp LC-80uq17u
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited February 2010
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    I ordered the Monster 3600 MkII (sorry Blue Fox :o), as it seemed to be the best bargain from Crutchfield in my price range. However, I will evaluate it and if I'm not satisfied, I'll probably step up to something like the Panamax 5100. As far as I'm concerned, that's probably the top end of what my existing equipment deserves! ;) I'm planning on leaving my amps plugged directly into the wall outlet.

    I have mixed emotions about plugging your amps straight into the wall.

    I leave my solid state gear on 24/7, so one reason I use a conditioner is to remove power transients from the equation to protect the equipment. But obviously sound quality is even more important.

    Just like any other electronic component I think headroom is a key factor, and the size and quality of the toroidal transformer in the power conditioner comes into play. If you are drawing less than 50%-60% of the power conditioners capacity at high listening levels with heavy bass passages, I would think you can and should plug everything (including the amps) into the power conditioner. I think both sound quality and component safety will be enhanced.

    In my personal experience, even with good aftermarket power cables and duplex outlets, the amps quieted down more when connected to clean power with no degradation in overall sound quality. I will qualify that my APC H10 has never exceeded its 40% threshold, and usually runs under 20% capacity. This is just a modestly priced power unit similar to the Monster you are considering, but has yielded great results for me.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
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    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    I have mixed emotions about plugging your amps straight into the wall.

    I leave my solid state gear on 24/7, so one reason I use a conditioner is to remove power transients from the equation to protect the equipment. But obviously sound quality is even more important.

    Just like any other electronic component I think headroom is a key factor, and the size and quality of the toroidal transformer in the power conditioner comes into play. If you are drawing less than 50%-60% of the power conditioners capacity at high listening levels with heavy bass passages, I would think you can and should plug everything (including the amps) into the power conditioner. I think both sound quality and component safety will be enhanced.

    In my personal experience, even with good aftermarket power cables and duplex outlets, the amps quieted down more when connected to clean power with no degradation in overall sound quality. I will qualify that my APC H10 has never exceeded its 40% threshold, and usually runs under 20% capacity. This is just a modestly priced power unit similar to the Monster you are considering, but has yielded great results for me.

    Got the Monster.
    My original plan was to leave the amps plugged directly into the wall outlet, but when setting up the power conditioner, I noticed that there were two outlets on the back for "high current audio" that have "a specifically designed filter circuit for high power audio components like amplifiers" (according to the manual). So, I plugged them in there. Everything sounds good. I believe I could hear a slight improvement in clarity once I got everything transferred to the conditioner. So far, I'm happy with this purchase.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Got the Monster.
    My original plan was to leave the amps plugged directly into the wall outlet, but when setting up the power conditioner, I noticed that there were two outlets on the back for "high current audio" that have "a specifically designed filter circuit for high power audio components like amplifiers" (according to the manual). So, I plugged them in there. Everything sounds good. I believe I could hear a slight improvement in clarity once I got everything transferred to the conditioner. So far, I'm happy with this purchase.

    My Monster had the same outlets. When I pluged my amps into it, it still limited the current and it was quite audible when playing deep bass lines. Just saying.
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    inspiredsports wrote: »

    In my personal experience, even with good aftermarket power cables and duplex outlets, the amps quieted down more when connected to clean power with no degradation in overall sound quality. I will qualify that my APC H10 has never exceeded its 40% threshold, and usually runs under 20% capacity. This is just a modestly priced power unit similar to the Monster you are considering, but has yielded great results for me.

    With you... no matter what i can do, i've never seen more than 60% on the H10, and that's through everything i've ever run off of it.

    It took the Oinker, B&K, CDP, TV, and my old Klipsch RW-10D at completely unlistenable volume levels to get it to trip 60% just once.

    At this point, i was straining the entire circuit, so i doubt i would have seen anything different plugged into the wall.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    My Monster had the same outlets. When I pluged my amps into it, it still limited the current and it was quite audible when playing deep bass lines. Just saying.

    Oh, I hear you. I'm going to try plugging them back directly into the wall in a day or two to see if I can hear the difference.
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,564
    edited February 2010
    I just added a plug for my integrated behind my rack. I had been plugging it into a Panamax 5100 EX and I can notice a difference now that I have it plugged into the wall. Bass is punchier, seemingly a bit deeper and there is more of a snap to snare drums and all the other stuff:D.
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited February 2010
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    I just added a plug for my integrated behind my rack. I had been plugging it into a Panamax 5100 EX and I can notice a difference now that I have it plugged into the wall. Bass is punchier, seemingly a bit deeper and there is more of a snap to snare drums and all the other stuff:D.
    Cool! So, is this added outlet on its own circuit, or just an additional outlet on the same circuit as everything else?
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  • JPSmario
    JPSmario Posts: 142
    edited March 2010
    I've been running the HTS3600 MkII for a year now and it's been nothing but perfect for my system. everything is plugged into it, bass is punchier than I can believe and I've got major improvments in blackness on both my soundstage and my CRT TV screen. Granted, the Rotel RB-980BX is not that high-powered; I never see the amperage higher than 1.5 for music alone (Vinnie Coliauta kick drum rolls) except for the power-on surge. I've been happy with the Monster.
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