adding power to my Denon 3802

bounty5 · September 2003

I have owned a Denon 3802 for about a year now, and for the most part am pleased with it. The theater sound is great, but I find the music end lacking. I have been thinking that some additional power might be in store, but am unsure if I should be looking at an "amp" or a "pre amp" for this receiver? The manual is anything but specific in this regard, and the website is even worse. Ideally, I am looking for a warmer sound with more fullness. Does anybody here have any experience with this same receiver, or line?
Any brands any better or worse than others for this? I have been steered towards Adcom by a few friends.
Thanks, Tom

Frank Z · September 2003

As long as the receiver has "Pre-Out's" you can easily add a seperate amp to drive the speakers. Basically your receiver will then be functioning as a pre-amp.

TroyD · September 2003

Frank is correct, by using the pre-outs on your Denon, you essentially bypass the internal amplifiers and can add outboard amps. With my Denon 1801, I use the preouts and have separate amps for my center and mains. Thre are some who think this isn't a good idea but I and many others do it and find it works very well.

Plenty of brands of amps out there and opinions on them are numerous. Adcom makes good gear. I own a few Carver amps and love 'em....others are NAD, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo just to name a few.

BDT

John K. · September 2003

Tom, whatever the problem might be, it's highly unlikely that a new receiver or amp is going to solve it. Since sound is sound, regardless of whether it's in a movie or music on a CD, there shouldn't be any difference there. If you want more warmth or fullness in the sound a different amp won't get it ; turning up the bass and/or turning down the treble control will make a difference.

wcoluccci · September 2003

The reciever has a lot of power, maybe your problem is with the speaker setup in the reciecer menu. I have a 3800 and it kicks ****. My set up is rt55i mains, csi400 center, fx 300's side surrounds, fxi50's back and a energy s10 sub. It took me awhile to set everything just right. I do not know what your running as mains, but if you running a sub set your speakers to small. I wish you luck.
wcolucci

bounty5 · September 2003

My posting of this came after visiting a friends house, and listening to his NAD receiver, with a pair of Mirage mains. The sound was quite simply incredible. I asked him about the specs of his system, and he told me the receiver was 75 watts. Now the 3802 is 110, and I have yet to get that amount, or kind of sound out of them. I currently have a pair of Sony mains, which will be replaced within a month or so, to a pair of RTi70s, or perhaps their new equivalent. My system, as it stands now consists of the Denon 3802, a PSW650, the Sony mains, R20 surround, and R10 rear surrounds. The theater stuff is great, but it seems like I have to turn this thing way up, to 20-25 to get any real sound with a wallop. I will admit that my room is anything but audio friendly, and although I have tried moving things somewhat, there does not seem to have been a big change. Could this simply be the difference in the main speakers? My circa 87 Sony TAV480, practically forced you out of the room when turned to 3, I would have expected similar results with the Denon.

Dr. Spec · September 2003

Not all volume controls are similar in the relative gain they provide at any given volume setting.

The Denon volume control goes well into the positive range; a listening volume of -15 on DVDs is generally pretty loud. Most music is recorded a bit lower than DVDs, so around -10 for music would be considered very loud.

The Denon has plenty of power, especially if all your speakers are set to small with an 80 Hz crossover to the PSW650.

The Sony mains might be inefficient also. Have you calibrated your speaker system at the listening position with test tones and a SPL meter?

Doc

bounty5 · September 2003

I suspect that the Sony's may be a good portion of my problem. I also have a pair of Rti15s in the kitchen, and despite their modest size, their sound seems much clearer and louder in them than the Sony's. I have the 650 sub (through LFE)and all my speakers set up as small. I have used the test tone feature with an SPL meter several months ago and noticed improvement. I will need to work some more on room setup and placement of speakers. I could also use the "in line" method for the sub to gain more low end. I believe my best bet would be to upgrade my mains as planned, and then proceed from there.

wcoluccci · September 2003

The problem also could be what are you using as a music source. Also how that source is connected to your reciever. Are you using line level out, digital optical or coaxal and can you set your frequency response on your dvd if you are using a dvd for playback. On my denon 2900 dvd this is done in the set-up menu.
I would also check what sound mode and effect you have the reciever set on. Remember movie sound tracks are recorded differntly than audio cds. But don't do anything drastic till you change your mains. Very high efficiency speakers make a big differnce.
wcolucci:D

Tour2ma · September 2003

Originally posted by bounty5
I suspect that the Sony's may be a good portion of my problem.

Agree... personally I'd put speakers at ~80% of the determination of the final sound quality of a rig.

Not that you could get great sound with a 7 wpc Akai or some such thing wired to a nice pair of mains. But that is moot since Denon is in a nice class of AVR's.

Get the Polks or Mirages or whatever and then reassess your AVR's worthiness.

pwmcon1 · September 2003

Hey Bounty,
I ahve a denon receiver 1700, I amthinking of replaceing.
It has been receommened to try NAD, what model # is your friends that you were so impressed with?
thanks

hamzahsh · September 2003

Thumb of Rule!

24/192 Burr-Brown DACs are better for Home Theater. 24/192 Crystal DACs are better for music.

Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, Proceed, Nakamichi uses Burr-Brown DACs and more. (Brighter & Detailed)

Harman Kardon, Onkyo, Marantz, Lexicon, NAD, Outlaw uses Crystal DACs and more. (Warmer & Smoother)

I'm into 90% HT & 10% into Music.
I prefer Burr-Brown DACs.

bounty5 · October 2003

after losing bids on three amps in a week on ebay, a friend told me about an equalizer he used in his home setup. I checked ebay, and sure enough they were there. Purchased an Alsesis M-EQ-230 for a little under 100$. This thing is small, and weighs in at less that 4 pounds, so I was a little nervous. I placed it inline between cd player and receiver, and vive la difference'. The Denon, which I thought was lacking power suddenly unveiled itself. The changes i made across the spectrum were minimal, but the dramatic change in sound (removing some of my acoustic boundaries no doubt) are postively breathtaking. I have used eqs before (a technics 7band x2), but this 1/3 octave, 30 bandsX2 offers so much control over what you hear its amazing. I may still go the additional amp at some point, but feel that this addition has solved some of my problem.

dorokusai · October 2003

Bounty - Have any more information on that EQ? 30 bands you said?

Bionic - If you want an EQ this is what I was talking about, don't use the inboard one on the AVR.

pwmcon1 · October 2003

Well I bought the Denon 3803. it is great improvement over the 1700 5 yo unit. 6ave has a deal where u ordered the 3802, which they were out but they gave u the 3803 for $650 delivered, the price of the 3802. The local tweeter store here in VA still sells the 3803 for $1000.

I also purchased the polk lsi9, to replace my old monitor 10's.
I like them alot, tehy sound better than the monitor 10, and were 1/4 the size.

Now since my new denon u can hook up 2 speakers in another room, in addition to 7/1 in the main room, I am thinking of trying the Klipsch sb3 or sb2 bookshelf speakers for the bedroom, I want a different sound than the polks, and these were really highly rated by 30 reviewers on a website.
Anyone with any experince with these??

bounty5 · October 2003

dorokusai, the eq is made by alesis, M-EQ-230. 30 bands for right and left side, and a 12db boost for both sides also. Check ebay, there were several last week.

dorokusai · October 2003

Thanks Bounty, I will keep my eyes peeled. Looks like a neat little tweaker.

adding power to my Denon 3802

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