Need help on speaker setting

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danielyu
danielyu Posts: 10
edited September 2003 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I just bought a pair of Rti 150, pair of Fxi 50 and Csi 40. I don't have a subwoofer, so should I set ALL 5 speakers to "LARGE"? Since the towers are the ones pounding out the bass, would making the others "Small" make the sound better?

Also, does using 12 gauge wires really improve sound over 16 gauge? Also for Fxi 50, is it ok to set them up "toe-in"? I toe-in my towers and they sound great.

I'm new to home theater/audio and am still learning, so fellow Polk owners, please shed some lights =)

Thanks
D.

btw, I own a Harman Kardon 7200, very NICE receiver. Taking out the rubber base on the tower and use only the metal pin improved bass tremendously. Any other placement suggestions to improve bass since i don't have a sub?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited September 2003
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    Welcome to the forum.

    I'll answer what I know. IMO, you won't notice a difference between 16 and 12 gauge wire. You will notice a difference between that kind of wire and some higher end wire, but not Monster (over priced/under performing) wire. Try placing your speakers closer to the back wall as a way to improve bass response.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
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    Mains to large, sub to off/no, all others to small, 80 Hz crossover if it is selectable. Advise 12 gauge on the mains since you are using them full range and triple duty for bass. If you find yourself running out of power for L/R at high volumes for HT applications, consider a larger high current amp for the 150's.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2003
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    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    If you find yourself running out of power for L/R at high volumes for HT applications, consider a larger high current amp for the 150's.
    ... or a sub?

    Will he want to send LFE to the mains here?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
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  • danielyu
    danielyu Posts: 10
    edited September 2003
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    Thanks guys. Regarding crossover setting at 80hz, does that mean the frequencies below 80hz for my center and surrounds would be routed to my mains? Does this setup produce more bass than setting "Large" for my center and surround speakers? They don't have woofers, but spec says they can go down to 40 or 50 hz......

    At my current setting (all Large, speakers close to walls), they generate good bass, enough for normal movies, but i'd like to maximize my speakers w/o getting a sub.

    Another question: is bare wire connection better than using connectors like banana plugs? I was told by a tech guy that using any connector would cause some (though probably insignificant) signal loss.

    Thanks
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited September 2003
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    Personally, I'd go with what Doc suggests. The 80Hz crossover isn't a line drawn in the sand, there's going to be some bass output to your 'small' speakers that hits below the crossover point. Your receiver is going to be taxed enough as it is.

    Does anyone of the forum run their 150's with an external amp, using their receiver as a pre? Bigsexy, maybe? I wonder how that's going.

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  • gatemplin
    gatemplin Posts: 1,595
    edited September 2003
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    Adding connectors just makes things easier, you wont notice any audible difference. Also, I found that the nuts on the binding posts can rattle loose over time when using bare wire. You can find cheap bananas and spades at parts express or radio shack etc.
    Graham
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited September 2003
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    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    ... or a sub?

    Will he want to send LFE to the mains here?

    Why wouldn't he want the mains to be large, in ANY scenario? If not, perhaps he should have bought the 38's and a set of stands.

    Cheers,
    Rooster
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2003
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    In general Russ it's just a Bass management issue to me. As the number of bass radiators grow the issues with Hot and Cold zones tend to increase.

    Here specifically my LFE concern was speaker preservation based. While the 150's are beefy, I just did not know jow much they can take. Thus the question...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
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    Well he said he didn't have a subwoofer, so his only correct set-up is mains large, sub off. Whether or not he needs a subwoofer is really another matter entirely.

    I think the 150s can handle it; I don't think the h/k can deliver it. If he will be using the mains for triple bass duty (i.e., high passed surround bass, mains bass, and LFE), he needs about 300-400 wpc for a HT application.

    Considering a good sub amp is typically 300-500 watts alone, and the AVR is 100+ watts per side, the h/k will quickly run out of steam with the BM circuit configured as described above.

    My vote here is for one of two things - a beefy external amp for L/R, or a powered sub. Or keep things moderate in volume for HT and watch the temp and clipping/overdrive indicators on the h/k.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2003
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    Good points, Doc. Clipping is likely the bigger concern here.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2003
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    Originally posted by danielyu
    Also for Fxi 50, is it ok to set them up "toe-in"? I toe-in my towers and they sound great.

    That kind of defeats the purpose of having a bi/dipole speaker. These speakers are designed to enhance the surround channels by dispersing the sound. Toeing them in will actually localize the sound. Mount 'em flat, no toe-in!

    Toe-in the mains, sure! you will get better imaging from your speakers. Just don't get to carried away with it or the front sound stage will really suffer.
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited September 2003
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    Originally posted by danielyu
    Also for Fxi 50, is it ok to set them up "toe-in"?

    Frank is right NO toe in.

    But also make sure you have them set right. You may already know this, but no one has mentioned it so here it is anyway.

    If you have the Fxi's behind you or on the back wall run them in the bipole position. If they are on the side wall and in-line with your listening position run them in the dipole position.

    Enjoy and welcome to the forum
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  • walk
    walk Posts: 178
    edited September 2003
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    If I understand the way bass management works for DD/DTS 5.1 recievers...

    If you don't have a subwoofer (Sub = No) then it will route the LFE to any speaker that is set = Large.

    If you set any of the speakers = Small then for that channel it will cutoff bass below i.e. 80hz and route it instead to the subwoofer (assuming you have one).

    What I think it will NOT do however, is re-route full-range channel (i.e. center/surrounds) bass to the *mains*, only to a sub.

    If you don't have a sub, then setting a speaker = Small will only put a 80hz cutoff on it and nothing else, it doesn't route it to the mains or any other channel. That is preferred anyway, since those small speakers can't reproduce the bass, so why waste amp juice sending it - but ideally I think you should get a subwoofer.

    But if you don't, then yeah set the L/R to Large and the rest to Small. The RTi150 can handle and will reproduce "good" bass but the rest really will not.

    I could be wrong about how 5.1 bass management works though :/

    Does it route full-channel bass from speakers set = Small to other speakers that are set = Large?
    - Sony 50"A3000 SXRD; Onkyo TX-SR 805
    - Polk RTi150 mains; CSi30 center; FXi3 surrounds, R15 backs
    - Velodyne CHT-12 subwoofer
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