Tuesday Turntable Tweaks!

madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
edited September 2003 in 2 Channel Audio
Tonite I used a friends Shure V15 cartridge setup tool and test lp. I don't have a Shure cart but the tools still work.

I changed the angle slightly on the cart to make it line up with the tool because it was off. I bumped up the force from 1.75g to 2g. After re-leveling the table I ran through the test lp and set the antiskate. Afterwards I went ahead and cleaned the stylus with some last. I got a noticeable improvement out of this little tuneup. Not bad for 3 hours worth of work.
madmax
Vinyl, the final frontier...

Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
Post edited by madmax on

Comments

  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited August 2003
    Glad to hear you got improvements. I heard that changing and setting up carts is very hard but I had no idea it could take up to 3 hours!

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Detachable headshells are set up friendly. Fixed ones are a pain.

    Regardless though, the majority of the time seems to be the anti-skate adjusting.

    The Shure test records are very good, but there's a fair amount of trial and error involved. This is complicated by the fact that the higher difficulty segments, numbers 4 and 5, are easily damaged by mistracking. And once they are damaged it is hard to distinguish the damage from true mistracking. Shure warns to discontinue test at first sign of a mistrack at any level.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    It took about an hour to go through the lp, an hour to tweak everything around and recheck the vta and for/aft with the original tools that came with the sme. Another hour to make sure all was right including some more tests on the anti-skate.
    Seemed reasonable to me. Maybe I'm a little slow but I was taking my time and having a lot of fun with it at the same time.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Three hours is not unreasonable considering the tone arm adjustments as well.

    What SME do you have? A 3009? Mark "?"?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    I have the mark IV with solid headshell. (less resonance problems with the solid). Besides, it just looks cool. I was going to go with an rb250 rega (did I get that right, it's been awhile) but you know by the time you put a few upgrades in it you have more in it than the IV I found from a great dealer in hongkong. If anyone ever goes high end on a tone arm talk to me first. No sense in paying 2000-3000 when you can find one for $600 to $900. Awesome arm. You can adjust almost everything while playing an lp!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Thanks, max. I'll take you up on your offer... if and when.

    I've seen the IV go on ebay for between $900 and $1000. The V is the one that's really "out there".

    I have a 3009 I, II (both original and improved) and III.

    What I have the jones for now is a 3012. A NIB just went for $960 on ebay.

    Then again, I also have (for display purposes only) a 1930 Audak tone arm. Damn thing weighs about 2 pounds.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    From what I remember the V had one additional feature over the IV. It was questionable whether you needed the feature depending on what your setup was. I can't remember what it was though. Whatever it was wasn't worth almost twice the cost!
    madmax

    PS: I'm wondering if there are replacement cables out there for the IV, who makes them and if I would want one or not. Not for now but for someday when I get the upgrade fever again.

    Edit: Can you post a pic of the 1930?
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Ask and ye shall receive.

    I just love the old table top radio look of the head. Note the NOS replacement stylus for $0.35. Also can't really tell in the pic, but the arm leads have cloth insulators.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • gidrahgidrah Posts: 3,031
    edited August 2003
    Hey Max. What cartridge are you running? I know your spinnin' some quality stuff. Beyond my means, but not beyond my wishes.

    BTW. I just received a Dual 510. Stock arm and unknown cartridge. It's time I did some searching and researching on how to do half the things just mentioned.
    Make it Funky! :)
  • izafarizafar Posts: 795
    edited August 2003
    Hey guys,

    I just have a very basic question (not trying to hijack the thread): where can I get a brush to clean the record before putting on the table. I am noticing a lot of lint on my record. Also whats the alternate way of cleaning a record in the absence of a proper cleaning brush?. I am also suspecting some of the lint is accumulated on the needle, whats a best way to get rid of that.

    Thanks.
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Parasound Halo A23 - Parasound Halo P5 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    How about a can of compressed air to remove the dust?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    Cool arm!

    I use the Goldring 1042 cartridge. My next one will be a Clearaudio Aurum Beta.

    The brush I use:
    http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AHUNTBRSH
    Just put the lp on the table, turn on and let one or two turns go by with this brush on the lp. Pull off to the side when done. Re-do after completion of play.

    You can clean your stylus with "Last stylus cleaner"
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    iza,

    I nailed a lot of 20, NOS Jasco "Disk Jockey" brushes on ebay a while back for resale. It's a nice, economical, "no-name" felt record brush and includes a stylus brush to boot. It''ll do the job on your lint issues, but will not "deep" clean.

    $5 plus shipping. If you're interested PM or e-mail me. Pic below of one that I opened.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    That is a good deal on the brush. Deep cleaning is best left to a record cleaning machine (which most of us cannot afford) or at least an Orbitrac which you can find for about $40. One of these days I will have the vpi 16.5 cleaner but for now the orbitrac is a great alternative. My perspective on it is that if you cannot afford at least the $40 orbitrac and a cheap brush then maybe you should reconsider the need to play lp's. Not giving anyone a hard time but there is an entry level cost to this hobby. :D
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Originally posted by madmax
    Not giving anyone a hard time but there is an entry level cost to this hobby. :D
    madmax
    This just in... :D
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    Didn't really get it... :D
    There really is an entry level cost.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited August 2003
    Hey tour, I have the same brush. My friend gave it to me with the TT but it's missing the stylus cleaner:(. I agree, if you can't afford a record cleaning machine, the brush is excellent.

    I have a question for you guys. I am enjoying the B&O but I want to uprade to a Rega in the future. Would I have to go through all the different adjustments and stuff if I use a Rega cart? I heard the Rega carts are plug and play like my B&O and the only thing to adjust is the weight.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    max,
    I hear ya. But you know, in truth my original outlay was only about $700. The better (read -- "more expensive") toys came later, and are still coming...

    Audio-itis... my friend for life.

    organ,
    Yup. For dust removal they are adequate.

    As for the Rega question, to the best of my knowledge all plug and plays (pnp) are self aligning, so yes, only the weight and anti-skate would be involved in the set up of one. Even VTA should be designed into the arm/ cartridge combo of a pnp.

    But to be honest I've never followed Rega. I was not under the impression that all their arms were pnp.

    My $0.02 worth would be to get away from pnp with your next TT move. Having a range of cart's to choose from is analogous to being able to swap out different EL34's in a tube amp... albeit a little more expensive.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited August 2003
    Cool, I'll have to think about that when I'm ready to upgrade the TT. It's going to be a long time before I get a Rega. I want to try a tube DAC first, then get back into HT with a cheapo receiver using pre outs. But my first cart will probably be pnp. I'll use it while I learn about cart set up/adjustments, etc.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • izafarizafar Posts: 795
    edited September 2003
    I recieved this brush from Tour this weekend. It is working great on removing lint/dust of the LPs. I havent used the needle brush as yet as the needle seems not dirty right now. Thanks alot Tour for prompt shipment and a great deal.
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Parasound Halo A23 - Parasound Halo P5 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited September 2003
    iza,

    Excellent... I was wondering about its arrival. Undamaged I trust... Happy to hear it is satisfactory.

    The instructions are kind of weak, so here are some tips.
    On the LP brush:
    1. Light pressure applied to an LP spinning on your TT is fine.
    2. Avoid using your hand to remove lint from the brush. Skin oil will build up on the brush with time. The stylus brush works well for cleaning the LP brush.

    As for the stylus brush, here are some tips to safeguard against damaging the stylus..
    1. It is best to clean the stylus while holding it in your hand. Since you're running a p-mount, it's easily removed.
    2. Use the length of the brush to clean.
    3. Using light pressure, always brush from the base of the stylus towards its tip.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • cmy330gocmy330go Posts: 2,336
    edited September 2003
    I know this may be a little late Organ but I agree with Tour in regards the pnp cartridge. If you have your heart set on a Rega at least treat yourself to the upgrade kit so that you can use something other than Rega cartridges in the future or at least be able to tweak it to your liking.

    If you don't have your heart set on Rega, you may consider a Music Hall (my personal fav). The upside to the music hall tables is they come with a respectable cartridge mounted and adjusted. So in a sense it is plug and play. When I got my table it only took about 15 minutes before I was spinning my first piece of vinyl. But on the other hand it also sports a fully adjustable arm, so if you want to try other cartridges there is nothing holding you back.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing Rega the least. They are great tables, and I very seriously considered the P3 before purchasing my table. I finally decided on the music hall (mmf-7) because: set up was a no brainer, i liked the adjustability, and the fact that is very well isolated.

    I could go on forever about this but I'm going to stop before I put you all to sleep. As always this is just my opinion, hope it helps.

    Happy Listening!
    HT
    Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600

    2 CH
    Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500,
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited September 2003
    Thanks for the info, cmy. I don't have my heart set on the Rega, I'm open to suggestions. I've heard great things about the Music Hall tables. If I get the MH table, I'll have to order online because I don't know any MH dealers around here. Holy ****, that means I'll have to get a tubed phono pre-amp, YEAH! more tubes!:).

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited September 2003
    cmy,

    Don't cut yourself short, you're among the Club's TT folk (read "nuts") here.

    While we are talking choice of TT's... I am old school. AR XA's for basics and classic Thorens/ SME combo's for the serious stuff. I have never found the need to modernize.

    Will also still admit my old Dual 1229 has a place in my heart.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited September 2003
    Maurice, you tube freak. :D

    Tour, with the MF's phono stage, I can hear a nice rumble in my old Thorens between tracks. It still sounds great and you don't notice the rumble while it actually playing something. Can that be the bearing? I'm wondering if the Thorens is just too old and used. Of course, I've put a new TT on hold and looking for some new Mains.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited September 2003
    The main platter bearing could be responsible for the rumble. Not sure what Thorens calls for. A drop of of Shell 20W NON-DETERGENT is worth a shot, it is what AR uses. If it quiets it, but comes back fairly quickly, then removing the bearing and cleaning it may be required.

    If lubing does not help, then it could be coming through the drive. Yours is the 160, right? Not too familiar with it. Is it belt drive or idler wheel? I'm thinking the former, but not sure. Let me know...

    I think I told you once that I have a 160, but was in error. I picked up a TD-126 for the SME arm that was on it.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited September 2003
    I don't remember you saying you had the 160.

    I have the 160 and it is belt drive. Forgive my ignorance, but are talking motor oil?
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited September 2003
    oops, wrong thread...
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by dcarlson
    Forgive my ignorance, but are talking motor oil?
    Yup... :)

    Actually I do have a bottle of Thorens "lube". It's clear and has more of a silicon base look to it. Sewing machine oil, which is pretty widely available is a very light, clear oil that could be a nice substitute.

    AR did/ does use Shell 20W non-detergent...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
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