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kuntasensei · August 2009

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I've noticed the same thing regarding Episode III. The sound track really isn't as good as I and II. Not even just the dialogue, but the surround encoding in general. Things don't seem to flow quite as smoothly as they could have. The movie itself is DAMN good...but the soundtrack didn't quite live up to expectations.

Now the podrace scene in Episode I...that's a masterpiece of the surround sound format.;)

I know I'll get slammed for saying this, but I'm just not a fan of Ben Burtt as a sound designer, at least for whiz-bang surround action. I think he handles music-heavy material well... but man, I wish Gary Rydstrom was still at Skywalker Sound!

kuntasensei · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Agreed, 'Curt...and how about when the senator's ship explodes in the beginning of Episode II? WOW -- that sequence bottomed out my PSW10 until I thought it was going to blast through my floor; had to go back and make major trim adjustments on that one! :eek:

Because my SVS 20-39CS+ is passive with external amplification, I didn't have a subsonic filter. That scene seriously was the first time I ever feared for the safety of my subwoofer. I didn't QUITE clack the driver against the former... but damn, it made a noise I never want to hear again! And if you think the sound of a PSW10's soft bottoming is scary, you don't want to hear a big mama like the SVS hit overexcursion! I quickly set a subsonic filter at 18Hz (though I'm bypassing it for my Buttkicker).

kuntasensei · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

That may be -- and that subtle "quiet softness" dominating the track indeed seems intentional to add a taut edge -- but I had a real problem with the dialogue stem on this disc (which I own because I enjoyed the film); most of Reeves' dialogue delivery was simply inaudible during most of it (I suppose not a negative) and it became tiring after awhile to raise and lower the master volume to compensate, as action and dialogue came and went.

Now ya'll have me wanting to go back and watch this again. I don't recall the dialogue being all that low. Then again... I think I watched it somewhere near -15dB from reference too, which may be why. I do remember that movie having some serious dynamic range though.

kuntasensei · August 2009

CaligulaPolk wrote: »

805.. looks like you need to upgrade

im not sure about new model OS settings would be same or slightly different

I was thinking about stepping up to a 906, actually... but then I saw the new Denon flagship model and thought, "Man, I should go 9.1 and throw in some front speakers for Dolby Pro-Logic IIz." (Whether I will or not depends entirely on how insane I am at any given moment.)

cnh · August 2009

Insanity is with us "all"! The Onkyo 907 will probably have that feature in any case....if it is already there on the 607.

Thankfully, I'll be away for about a year. So no chance of being tempted either way...and by the time I get back to my gear...I'll have missed it so 'much' that it will take months before I get the upgrade bug back?

cnh

CaligulaPolk · August 2009

cnh wrote: »

Insanity is with us "all"! The Onkyo 907 will probably have that feature in any case....if it is already there on the 607.

Thankfully, I'll be away for about a year. So no chance of being tempted either way...and by the time I get back to my gear...I'll have missed it so 'much' that it will take months before I get the upgrade bug back?

cnh

going to be roommate with bubba?

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

Yes...the dialogue was horrendously hushed on Constantine...

Any Onkyo owners want to start sharing some speaker level calibration settings, too?

kuntasensei · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Any Onkyo owners want to start sharing some speaker level calibration settings, too?

What do you mean? Our level trims? Considering that's so dependent on speaker sensitivity, placement, room acoustics, etc., it'd be so different for everyone that the info would be useless. Plus, if you use Audyssey, the speaker levels are trimmed specifically for how each channel is EQ'd (which you can't see, because it is equalizing hundreds of points for each channel, at least on the MultEQ XT version; 2EQ isn't quite as robust).

I'll gladly post all my values, but I'm not sure what use it would be to anyone.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

Of course it wouldn't be of use to anyone; the reason would be just to share the trim values with one another.

concealer404 · August 2009

kuntasensei wrote: »

Now ya'll have me wanting to go back and watch this again. I don't recall the dialogue being all that low. Then again... I think I watched it somewhere near -15dB from reference too, which may be why. I do remember that movie having some serious dynamic range though.

Yeah, depending on speakers i ran at the time, i was usually -15dB to reference. I haven't watched it in a while though. You probably didn't notice any dialogue problems at -15.

If you've got the ears and the gear for it, bump it up some, it's ridiculous. I haven't seen a movie in years with that kind of range. Maybe the new Batman.

kuntasensei · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Of course it wouldn't be of use to anyone; the reason would be just to share the trim values with one another.

Okey dokey then.

L +2
C -1
R +2
RS +2
RBS -1
LBS -1
LS +2
SUB -4

concealer404 · August 2009

I run:

R: +2
C: 0
L: +2
LS: +4
RS: +4
CS: 0
Sub: 0

Due mainly to my mishmosh of speakers.

kuntasensei · August 2009

Yeah, my levels are primarily because my center is 1dB higher sensitivity and 1ft closer than my mains. And my side surrounds are 8-10ft away and my rears are like 3ft (and sharply angled down). Subwoofer level is -4 because I had to balance my subwoofer amp's gain with the Buttkicker's.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

concealer404 wrote: »

Yeah, depending on speakers i ran at the time, i was usually -15dB to reference. I haven't watched it in a while though. You probably didn't notice any dialogue problems at -15.

If you've got the ears and the gear for it, bump it up some, it's ridiculous. I haven't seen a movie in years with that kind of range. Maybe the new Batman.

Yes...at -15 from reference, there isn't going to be much that will be missed -- BUT, even cranked,this film had some intelligibility issues in places from what I recall.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

Thanks for the speaker values, guys.

concealer404 · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Yes...at -15 from reference, there isn't going to be much that will be missed -- BUT, even cranked,this film had some intelligibility issues in places from what I recall.

Hrmmmm.... i hate to jump on the setup issue bandwagon.... But what you're running is FAR better than what i used, and i had no problems at any point with intelligibility.

SoundArtillery · August 2009

I never have any intelligibility issues and I am only running two channels.

kuntasensei · August 2009

concealer404 wrote: »

Hrmmmm.... i hate to jump on the setup issue bandwagon.... But what you're running is FAR better than what i used, and i had no problems at any point with intelligibility.

Yeah, I don't remember anything being unintelligible... and when I watched it, I think I was still using my CSi30, which is what Mike has. The CSi40 does do way better with dialogue than the 30 did though. Since it has been so long since I've watched it, I can't really say for sure that there were no dialogue problems, but I do remember that movie having insane dynamic range.

Still... my neighbors can't hear my system even at insane levels, so I tend to crank it. :P

concealer404 · August 2009

kuntasensei wrote: »

Yeah, I don't remember anything being unintelligible... and when I watched it, I think I was still using my CSi30, which is what Mike has. The CSi40 does do way better with dialogue than the 30 did though. Since it has been so long since I've watched it, I can't really say for sure that there were no dialogue problems, but I do remember that movie having insane dynamic range.

Still... my neighbors can't hear my system even at insane levels, so I tend to crank it. :P

I was using uhmmm....

Polk 11TLs for mains
Paradigm Titan V.3s as center and rear center
Infinity SM115s as r/l surround
(2) Mirage Omni S8s

It was a **** to even get to sound halfway decent. Ridiculously bass heavy.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

concealer404 wrote: »

Hrmmmm.... i hate to jump on the setup issue bandwagon.... But what you're running is FAR better than what i used, and i had no problems at any point with intelligibility.

I wasn't running this setup in my sig when I reviewed Constantine; but it's been universally accepted this disc had some dialogue issues.

I fail to see how what I was running was "better" than what you had in any case -- are you certain?

kuntasensei · August 2009

I wonder if it's less of a problem with the mix than it is that Keanu mumbles a lot in it. Maybe I didn't have a problem understanding him because I listen to mumbling idiots all day.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

kuntasensei wrote: »

I wonder if it's less of a problem with the mix than it is that Keanu mumbles a lot in it. Maybe I didn't have a problem understanding him because I listen to mumbling idiots all day.

LOL...I know what you mean about listening to mumbling idiots all day...

But the other actors had a difficult time delivering audible dialogue as well, from what I recall.

kuntasensei · August 2009

I can't decide whether to pull the DVD of Constantine back out or just wait to get the BD next month when I get my Oppo.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

kuntasensei wrote: »

I can't decide whether to pull the DVD of Constantine back out or just wait to get the BD next month when I get my Oppo.

Are you pulling the trigger on the Oppo BD player? I just read the review of it in the latest issue of Home Theater, just delivered yesterday, and I may buy it myself. It got GREAT reviews by Kris Deering, if I'm not mistaken, on BD and DVD upscaling...looks like it's going to be the deck to beat for $500.

kuntasensei · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Are you pulling the trigger on the Oppo BD player? I just read the review of it in the latest issue of Home Theater, just delivered yesterday, and I may buy it myself. It got GREAT reviews by Kris Deering, if I'm not mistaken, on BD and DVD upscaling...looks like it's going to be the deck to beat for $500.

I'm still ruminating over it... but I can see it happening. I'm still using a Panasonic RP-91, which by all accounts is an excellent upscaling DVD player. I haven't really wanted to make the jump to Blu-Ray that much, but then I think "Well, I have a receiver that does the lossless codecs and a projector that does 1080p with deep color" and it starts to make more sense.

A friend brought his Oppo BDP-83 over to try to convince me to buy his (to prevent his wife from killing him for spending the money), and watching that sucker in action and finally seeing the lights for the lossless codecs flicker to life on my 705 immediately made me think, "Crap... I'm not buying his because I want to see what his wife does to him when she finds out, but I'm gonna end up with one of these."

I still have a few DVD-A discs and know of a few SACDs that I've wished I could play, so the Oppo seems like it would satisfy a whole lot of my evil upgradeitis. So yeah... I've got some throwaway money coming next month. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the Oppo.

concealer404 · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

I wasn't running this setup in my sig when I reviewed Constantine; but it's been universally accepted this disc had some dialogue issues.

I fail to see how what I was running was "better" than what you had in any case -- are you certain?

I think people just don't watch it loud enough.

Just sharing what i thought about it, no worries.

I think that you you have now is probably better than what i listed.... at least matched better. Might not reach the sheer volume i could, but i'm sure it's much more balanced.

hearingimpared · August 2009

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

I wasn't running this setup in my sig when I reviewed Constantine; but it's been universally accepted this disc had some dialogue issues.

I fail to see how what I was running was "better" than what you had in any case -- are you certain?

concealer404 wrote: »

I think people just don't watch it loud enough. Just sharing what i thought about it, no worries.

I think that you you have now is probably better than what i listed.... at least matched better. Might not reach the sheer volume i could, but i'm sure it's much more balanced.

I just watched Constantine again and Mikes right about the dialogue issues. I had the volume up very high too. I had to put the subtitles on to get it all.

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

hearingimpared wrote: »

I just watched Constantine again and Mikes right about the dialogue issues. I had the volume up very high too. I had to put the subtitles on to get it all.

Thanks for confirming this, 'Impared!

:)

Mike LoManaco · August 2009

kuntasensei wrote: »

I'm still ruminating over it... but I can see it happening. I'm still using a Panasonic RP-91, which by all accounts is an excellent upscaling DVD player. I haven't really wanted to make the jump to Blu-Ray that much, but then I think "Well, I have a receiver that does the lossless codecs and a projector that does 1080p with deep color" and it starts to make more sense.

Indeed; you aren't running a Blu-ray player yet?

A friend brought his Oppo BDP-83 over to try to convince me to buy his (to prevent his wife from killing him for spending the money), and watching that sucker in action and finally seeing the lights for the lossless codecs flicker to life on my 705 immediately made me think, "Crap... I'm not buying his because I want to see what his wife does to him when she finds out, but I'm gonna end up with one of these."

You know something? As crazy as this all sounds, so many people -- me included -- have been desperate to see the "TrueHD" and "Master Audio" lights illuminate on their current generation Onkyo receivers since the launch of the BD format (or subsequent "win" of the "format war" by the BD camp) on the front panel displays...early BD players, like my Panasonic DMP-BD10A, did not bitstream these new codecs, and so only "MULTICH" showed in the receiver's display. I can TOTALLY understand the itch to see the orange "DTS HD MA" logo and listening mode flicker onto the Onkyo's screen...I'm waiting to see mine finally come to life after I get a player that will bitstream the damn TrueHD and Master Audio codecs...

I still have a few DVD-A discs and know of a few SACDs that I've wished I could play, so the Oppo seems like it would satisfy a whole lot of my evil upgradeitis. So yeah... I've got some throwaway money coming next month. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the Oppo.

I hear ya...hopefully gonna get the Oppo (or maybe the current model Panasonic that happens to be out, based on reviews) from the wifey for the holidays, or when we move...

This Oppo is supposed to be THE player to beat right now, ESPECIALLY for the price.

kuntasensei · August 2009

Nah, I stayed out of the HD format war... but since that's over, I guess I'll make the jump. A big factor (and I know this is dorky) was that I saw that Star Trek was coming on BD in November... and damn, I'd love to hear that in all its lossless glory!

So yeah, I think it's pretty much a done deal. Already spec'd out the price of the player plus Wall-E, Transformers, King Kong, Serenity, A Bug's Life, Iron Man, and 2 Nickel Creek SACDs. That ought to keep a smile on my face for a bit.

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