Portaable players and FLAC

Systems
Systems Posts: 14,873
edited August 2009 in Electronics
Is there such a thing as a non iPOD portable(mp3) player that can accept uncompressed FLAC files?I Know iPOD's accept Apple lossless but I'm looking for other possible alternatives.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    Going Portable, hmmm?

    This probably would be all the Lossless supported players out there.

    http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players-for-lossless-audio/
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Is there such a thing as a non iPOD portable(mp3) player that can accept uncompressed FLAC files?I Know iPOD's accept Apple lossless but I'm looking for other possible alternatives.

    Ahem. There is such a creature, and it even has a AC-powered dock with RCA-outs. It no longer reproduces in captivity, but there are still some seen in the wild from time to time, i.e. ebay. I'm speaking, of course, of the Rio Karma. (Rio closed their doors in 2005, and their technology was sold to Trekstor.)

    In fact, a guy I can vouch for personally has one up there now, BiN $249 with a 60Gig hard drive modded in.

    I have 4 I've modded myself, 2 with 60's.
    There is also a forum maintained, but it's not nearly as active as their old one used to be, riovolution

    Or, there are an armload of different players that have been Rockboxed to accept lossless like flac and ape. I think the accepted best of that lot is a Cowon player. Google rockbox, it's an ongoing community reversing players.

    p.s. Technically, flac is compressed, but it is a lossless compression codec.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Going Portable, hmmm?
    Yes I want something for background music and periodic headphone/earphone usage.
    This probably would be all the Lossless supported players out there.
    Thanks for the linky.I'm glad there is such a beast as I don't want to listen to nasty neutered MP3 files if I can help it.
    John30_30 wrote: »
    It no longer reproduces in captivity, but there are still some seen in the wild from time to time,
    LOL ,thanks for the great info John.That rio looks interesting and I will investigate the links you provided.
    I have 4 I've modded myself
    Ah then maybe I will ask if you are aware of any mod that will allow one to access the digital data stream ,bypassing the players internal DAC and analog electronics?
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    I have questions about modding a Pioneer DV-79Avi. Help? ;)
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Yes I want something for background music and the the odd headphone/earphone usage.

    Thanks for the linky.I'm glad there is such a beast as I don't want to listen to nasty neutered MP3 files if I can help it.

    LOL ,thanks for the great info John.That rio looks interesting and I will ingestigate the links you provided.
    Ah then maybe I will ask if you are aware of any mod that will allow one to access the digital data stream ,bypassing the players internal DAC and analog electronics?

    No one's done that that I'm aware of. My mods were tinkertoy level compare to that.



    It also does play compressed codecs such as ogg vorbis, mp3, and wma, and was just about the only DAP for a long time that linux users could interface with via the ethernet port.


    Actually, a Canuckistani compatriot of yours might know something. He used to have a site called karmalimbo.com basically for refurbing, but he got busy with R.L. and shut it down. The guy is a E.E. in R.L. iirc. Great guy. http://www.karmalimbo.com/
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    I have questions about modding a Pioneer DV-79Avi. Help? ;)
    Not sure if this is directed at me, but I have modded a pair of Pio's so might be able to offer some assistance.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55733&highlight=modding+dv563
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    John30_30 wrote: »
    No one's done that that I'm aware of.

    Ok thanks,it would be desirable as it would allow direct( digital) connection to an outboard DAC of higher quality.I would like to find out how Wadia does it with their iPOD docking station.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    Thanks GV! The question is directed to you and anyone who can help me mod the Pioneer. A New Thread with pictures coming up soon. :)
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Thanks GV! The question is directed to you and anyone who can help me mod the Pioneer. A New Thread with pictures coming up soon. :)
    the first step would be to order the service manual as it will be invaluable.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    John30_30 wrote: »
    ....Canuckistani compatriot of yours....
    :eek::mad::D


    Thanks john,I will see if I can get in contact with my commy **** countryman about said mod.;)
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    Yes Sir! I have already got a 108 Pages Long SM in hands (on screen really since it's PDF). :D

    Sometimes, I am torn what to call between the term "Canucku, Canuckasian, and Canuckastaini" Well, whatever works there, I guess. :D
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    :eek::mad::D


    Thanks john,I will see if I can get in contact with my commy **** countryman about said mod.;)

    Heh. No insult implied or intended.

    Here's a diagram of the mainboard from his site. You may be able to eyeball it and intuit where you'd want to hook in.

    qnqvlx.jpg
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Ok thanks,it would be desirable as it would allow direct( digital) connection to an outboard DAC of higher quality.I would like to find out how Wadia does it with their iPOD docking station.

    Why not just get a Wadia and an iPod? I now have two Wadia docks, and two iPod Classics (120GB). One is for home with the Bryston BDA-1 DAC (you recommended it), and I use the second at work with a Benchmark DAC1 and head phones. So far I have not had any issues with either the Wadia or iPod, and am impressed with the quality of the iPod Classic. It is a solid, well built piece of gear.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Yes Sir! I have already got a 108 Pages Long SM in hands (on screen really since it's PDF). :D
    If you get a chance I would like to take a look at the schematic for the analog board section.
    Sometimes, I am torn what to call between the term "Canucku, Canuckasian, and Canuckastaini" Well, whatever works there, I guess.
    That will be enough of that there Bucko.:D
    John30_30 wrote: »
    Heh. No insult implied or intended.
    And none taken,I chuckled actually.
    Here's a diagram of the mainboard from his site. You may be able to eyeball it and intuit where you'd want to hook in.

    qnqvlx.jpg
    That looks interesting I will have to dig abit further into the design of these things and see whats possible.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Why not just get a Wadia and ipod?
    For cost reasons.It will just be for a noncritical secondary source so I want to keep costs low therefore I will just be purchasing the player for now.
    Bryston BDA-1 DAC (you recommended it),
    I take it that you still prefer it over the DAC1?
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    I take it that you still prefer it over the DAC1?

    Oh yes. It is great, and I am in heaven. I am going home now to listen to it. ;)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    If you get a chance I would like to take a look at the schematic for the analog board section.

    You got email (the only one I knows). ;)
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Is there such a thing as a non iPOD portable(mp3) player that can accept uncompressed FLAC files?I Know iPOD's accept Apple lossless but I'm looking for other possible alternatives.

    Last I checked there was the Rio Karma and Trekstor Vibez. I had a 12gb trekstor vibez and enjoyed it immensely, it also had gapless playback which I didn't care about until I got a MP3 player without it.

    Not sure if they are out yet but Trekstor had a flash version coming out soon. Lots of info on Head-Fi if you are so inclined.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • SivaNevets
    SivaNevets Posts: 303
    edited August 2009
    u also want a decent DAC/codec and decent output power (5mma at least). there r tons of mp3 players support flac/ape but with a **** codec lol
    im actually looking for one too if theres any @ fair price
    Front: Martinlogan ESL
    Center: Martinlogan Stage
    Rear: Martinlogan Motion 4
    Sub: Martinlogan Grotto-I
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC 1523K

    PC 2 Channel: Polk LSI7
    Headset: Grado RS2 + Grado RA1 amp
    Mic: Neumann KMS605

    Car Audio
    2002 MB C240 Sedan
    MM6501 components
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    MB Quart Onyx 4.60 (1/2 to components, 3/4 bridged to sub)
    Pioneer 8200BT HU
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    You got email (the only one I knows). ;)
    Thank you sir.It sure is nice having it in PDF format.A quick look shows that unlike those in the DV563 they used some decent opamps (Burr Brown OPA2134)for the front left and right analog outputs.Thats a good thing because they are most likely surface mount types so not exactly easy to replace/upgrade.On the other hand I see they also used the same single polarity (+12vdc)as in the lower models.Overall though it looks like a nicely built ,full featured universal player.
    Gaara wrote: »
    Lots of info on Head-Fi if you are so inclined.
    Thanks ,I will have to wonder over there and get my read on.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Why not just get a Wadia and an iPod? I now have two Wadia docks, and two iPod Classics (120GB).
    Well I sprang for a classic as well.The 120 G's of storage made it very attractive as I intend to use Apple lossless exclusively.Down the road I may seriously consider the Wadia.

    btw.I'm going to download the latest version of iTunes ,where might I find the option for Apple lossless?
    Thanks
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    where might I find the option for Apple lossless?
    found it.:)
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited August 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Well I sprang for a classic as well.The 120 G's of storage made it very attractive as I intend to use Apple lossless exclusively.Down the road I may seriously consider the Wadia.

    Congratulations. The iPod Classic is a well built little music server. You really do need to get the Wadia, and upgrade the stock SPDIF cable, to get the most out of the iPod. I have almost 1700 classical "songs" on mine, and many are 10, 20, and 30 minutes in length. Using Apple Lossless I still have 65GB disk space left.

    Glad you found the Apple Lossless option on iTunes. Personally, I only use iTunes to rip CDs, and copy them to the iPod, and I hate iTunes. I really hate the way it takes a CD with multiple artists on it and puts the songs in differant folders rather than one folder, the CD folder. It drives me crazy trying to find all the songs to copy over to the iPod. However, once they are on the iPod it is great.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited August 2009
    I hadn't played with WinAmp in years, but tried it again the other day-and I was pleasantly surprised that it now integrates with the iPod (among many other new features). Meaning I can use it to manage my library and transfer or sync music to (and from) the iPod. And while I haven't played with Apple Lossless yet-Winamp just may support that as well.

    The one thing I like so far is that I have a library of FLAC so with WinAmp, I can just drag the FLAC file from my library onto the iPod, and based on my conversion settings, convert to whatever format I want on the fly. So I really don't need to use iTunes anymore if I didn't want to.
    WinAmp supported Audio formats include: CDA, MP3, MP2, MP1, AAC, M4A, MP4, NSA, FLAC, OGG, WMA, MID, MIDI, RMI, KAR, MIZ, MOD, MDZ, NST, STM, STZ, S3M, S3Z, IT, ITZ, XM, XMZ, MTM, ULT, 669, FAR, AMF, OKT, PTM, WAV, VOC, AU, SND, AIF, AIFF
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Congratulations. The iPod Classic is a well built little music server.
    Yes it's a solid little unit and the convenience factor is through the roof once you get the files loaded on to it.Mostly due to unfamiliarity, I'm finding iTunes a lot harder to manage files and sync with than WMP.
    You really do need to get the Wadia
    Thats a real possibility in the future and that upgrade path played a big part in my decision to buy an iPod vs something else.
    As one would expect using it's sub par integral DAC/linedriver it falls well short of a good CDP as far as SQ is concerned.However it does sound better than I expected and is entirely acceptable for the purpose of noncritical background music ,atleast with the lossless files.The errors are mostly of omission(loss of detail/soundstage width/height etc) and thankfully the highs are rather soft and rolled off instead of sounding bright and edgy.I may build a DIY docking station with a Class A preamp/ buffer circuit and see if that improves SQ,that is if I can pry it away from my Daughter.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    It's cool if you can build a dock with Class A line stages. You need to do whatever necessary to get your hands on the iPod even if it means robbing from your little girl. :D
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    It's cool if you can build a dock with Class A line stages.
    Yeah without having access to the digital data I think buffering the analog output with a nice discrete opamp is the best bet.It's cheap and easy enough to do.
    You need to do whatever necessary to get your hands on the iPod even if it means robbing from your little girl. :D
    She's decided she wants to buy one for herself so I guess that means I can have mine back.:)
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