Looks like XO upgrades for the 2A's are coming sooner than I thought....

comfortablycurt

Hey everyone.



So, I've been having some problems with my 2A's the last couple days. The left channel tweeter keeps cutting out, and sounding slightly garbled at times. This issue only occurs if I'm listening at high volumes for a somewhat extended length of time. If I let the speaker sit for a while, the tweeter seems to work fine again.

They already have RD0-194's, just for the record.

I'm guessing the poly's are going.



So...I guess I'm going to go ahead and upgrade my XO's a little sooner than I thought, since I've gotta tear into the XO's anyway. I'll be simply eliminating the poly switches.

Here's the schematic...mine are the 2A's.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=677948&postcount=3


Here's what I'm going to need, as far as I can tell(per speaker).

Tweeter section-Two 2.7 ohm resistors, one 12uf cap. The 750pf cap is a bypass cap, and should be eliminated, correct? Do I need to jumper it or anything like that?

I'll go with the 12 watt Mills resistors, and a 12uf Sonicap here. I'd want the Gen I Sonicaps, correct?


Midwoofer section-two 20uf caps, and two (gulp) 130uf caps.

Any suggestions on brands for these caps? Should I go with Sonicaps for the 20uf's? It'd cost me about $115 for four 20uf Sonicaps, and I'm on a bit of a budget. Should I spring for the Sonicaps, or will another brand work well here? I've always read that the higher grade caps make less of an impact in the midwoofer section, than the tweeter section . Maybe I'll get some cheaper ones now...and upgrade them to Sonicaps sometime down the line. Should I look into Solens? Daytons?

The two 130uf caps? Where should I go for these ones? Again...I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as I can, and these are some big **** caps. Definitely won't be going with Sonicaps for these ones...lol


I don't need to bother with the inductors, correct?

Internal wiring- Should I upgrade it? What gauge? Silver or copper? Any suggestions?

Binding posts-I'd love to upgrade these cheap stock binding posts. I've read about people using both Vampire and Cardas binding posts on their SDA's with good results. Any suggestions?

What size/type of binding post will I need to look for?

I've already Mortited them, and I have some Dynamat Extreme waiting to be applied to the baskets.

I want to spike them as well...but I don't want to spend $120 on a set of the Mye Sound spikes that everyone here suggests. Any other(lower cost) suggestions?

I'm probably going to either make, or purchase an upgraded SDA IC cable as well. I've read about people upgrading their pin/blade inputs on their speakers with RCA terminals or binding posts. Is there any way to upgrade a blade/blade terminal? I'm guessing there isn't...


Any other tweaks I should look into, while I've got these torn apart?




Eventually, I'm also going to mod them to use the RD0-198's, but I'm going to upgrade the stock XO's first, and do the TL mod later on down the line.



Thanks in advance for the help. I can't wait to tear into these things!!

leroyjr1

Do you plan on keeping the 2A's for a while? If you plan on upgrading to something in the near future I wouldn't stick a ton of money into them.

comfortablycurt

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Do you plan on keeping the 2A's for a while? If you plan on upgrading to something in the near future I wouldn't stick a ton of money into them.

I've definitely put a lot of consideration into that. But, I am planning on keeping the 2A's for a pretty long time. I'd love a pair of 1C's, but I really think they'd be too large for the room my gear's in right now.

I'm still most likely going to eventually get a pair of 1C's, but that's probably another 5-10 years down the road. Even when I do, I'll probably still keep the 2A's.

My eventual plan is to TL the 2A's. I'd want both 1C's and the 2A's though, so I could have some SDA's with 194's, and some SDA's with 198's. If the 2A's ever get sold, it will be a long ways down the line...and they'd probably get replaced by a pair of 2.3TL's. But, that's all long in the future at this point.

So, I'm definitely planning on keeping them around for a long time to come. I want to make sure I do think right, but I also want to try and keep costs down where I can.

comfortablycurt

Alright...I've got part of a shopping list put together here.

resistors-
4x 2.7ohm 12 watt Mills resistors@$3.85 each=$15.40
2x 0.5 ohm 12 watt Mills resistor(to replace polyswitches)@$3.85 each=$7.70

capacitors-
2x 12uf Gen I Sonicaps@$20.45 each=$40.90
4x 20uf Solen's@$8.99 each=$35.96
4x 130uf Solen's@$43.95 each=$175.80(eek)


The 750pf cap will be removed, and I now know that it doesn't need a jumper.


I'm going to skip on upgrading the internal wiring, because the wiring that's in there now is still in good shape, and I'm trying to keep costs down. I may or may not come back to it at a later date.

I'm also going to go with the Vampire binding posts, for budget purposes. What size/style will I need?



I may have to hold off on the 130uf's for a little while, due to their higher cost. Would I be alright upgrading everything else, and leaving the 130uf's until a later date? Or, should I just wait until I can do it all at once? If the SDA's are down for a while...it's not really a big deal. I've still got my 7A's to keep myself entertained. I'll do some more testing tomorrow, but the SDA's do still seem to be working fine, unless I drive them at higher volumes for an extended period of time.

headrott

Curt, I definately recommend the Cardas binding posts (The CCGR or the CCRR). I have used them on my 2Bs, 3.1TLs, AI-1 interconnect, and my Aragon 8008bb amp. They are very good, although maybe not the best but well worth the money.

Greg

cnh

I'd be interested in what you do Curt....as I may have to deal with my 2As or Bs...I'm pretty sure they are Bs even though they look like As because according to the Polkie who I got them from about a year ago, they have different numbered mid-drivers.

When I return the main thing I need to do is get some RDO-194s, a decent SDA wire and use some foam glue to secure the slowly detaching passive wafer! But that's nothing compared to what you have going on above!

Show us some pics of the progress.

cnh

heiney9

Curt see my post in the RAS. Parts Express carries the 130uF Solen. For the others you can go Sonicap or Clarity Cap depending on your budget. The Clarity's are a very nice alt to Sonicaps if $$$ is tight.

Wait and do the entire x-over. Not a good idea to replace all the others and leave the original 130uF's in there.

Caps

Clarity PX 12uF $8.30 x 2 = $16.60
Clarity PX 20uF $13.45 x 4 = $53.80
Solen 130uF x 4 = 175.80

Total $ 245.20 a little less than your above scenario.

heiney9

............or you could just jump or replace the poly until you get the funds to do it properly. Based on your description of the problem I'd bet 100% on the weak poly's.

H9

heiney9

Mixing old caps with new caps will throw the balance way out of whack so if you can't do them all, then just wait or just replace/jump the polys.

H9.

P.s. I tried to add this to the above post but the edit time had run out.

Bubinga99

Another alternative you may want to consider is the Erse Pulse-X line:
http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX
They have a nice range of values and good pricing.

Four 130uF 250V would run you $134.

Des Moines

Curt,

I had my 1C XOs ugraded about a month ago with the following:

ClarityCap 12uf ESA's - $60 a pair.
ClarityCap 2.2uf ESA's - $24 for 2 pairs.

Dayton 20uf - $11.54 a pair.
Dayton 40uf - $20.48 a pair.
Mills 7.5ohm resistors - $15 for 2 pairs.
Mills 2.5ohm resistors - $7.5 for 2 pairs.

Des Moines

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I want to spike them as well...but I don't want to spend $120 on a set of the Mye Sound spikes that everyone here suggests. Any other(lower cost) suggestions?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-660 (set of 4)

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-670 (set of 4)

comfortablycurt

headrott wrote: »

Curt, I definately recommend the Cardas binding posts (The CCGR or the CCRR). I have used them on my 2Bs, 3.1TLs, AI-1 interconnect, and my Aragon 8008bb amp. They are very good, although maybe not the best but well worth the money.

Greg

Thanks for the suggestion, but for financial/budget reasons, I'll probably end up going with the Vampires. Those Cardas posts look really nice though.

cnh wrote: »

I'd be interested in what you do Curt....as I may have to deal with my 2As or Bs...I'm pretty sure they are Bs even though they look like As because according to the Polkie who I got them from about a year ago, they have different numbered mid-drivers.

When I return the main thing I need to do is get some RDO-194s, a decent SDA wire and use some foam glue to secure the slowly detaching passive wafer! But that's nothing compared to what you have going on above!

Show us some pics of the progress.

cnh

Yeah, there's been a lot of confusion about the transitional period SDA's 2's that came between the A's and the B's. If they've got two different MW's, they're definitely 2B's.

I've never heard my 2A's with SL-2000's, since they already had RD0's when I got them. These RD0's are definitely some nice sounding tweeters though.

I'll update with pics eventually. It's going to be a little while before I get the ball rolling on this project though.

heiney9 wrote: »

Curt see my post in the RAS. Parts Express carries the 130uF Solen. For the others you can go Sonicap or Clarity Cap depending on your budget. The Clarity's are a very nice alt to Sonicaps if $$$ is tight.

Wait and do the entire x-over. Not a good idea to replace all the others and leave the original 130uF's in there.

Caps

Clarity PX 12uF $8.30 x 2 = $16.60
Clarity PX 20uF $13.45 x 4 = $53.80
Solen 130uF x 4 = 175.80

Total $ 245.20 a little less than your above scenario.

Thanks for the info. I'm considering these Clarity's as an option...I've still gotta finalize a list though.

Upon further thought, I've also decided to simply hold off until I can afford to upgrade the whole XO's, rather than doing the 130's at a later date.

heiney9 wrote: »

............or you could just jump or replace the poly until you get the funds to do it properly. Based on your description of the problem I'd bet 100% on the weak poly's.

H9

That's the plan. I'm going to go ahead and jump the poly's pretty soon, just so I can get them up and running for now. Then the XO's will be getting upgraded shortly there after.

Bubinga99 wrote: »

Another alternative you may want to consider is the Erse Pulse-X line:
http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX
They have a nice range of values and good pricing.

Four 130uF 250V would run you $134.

I'll keep these in mind. I'm definitely trying to cut costs a little wherever I can. Anyone here have any experience with these caps?

Des Moines wrote: »

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-660 (set of 4)

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-670 (set of 4)

Thanks for the suggestions.

Have you ever used either of these? Any thoughts on them?

inspiredsports

Good luck with the upgrade.

As an alternative, I had great results with Aeon caps when I upgraded the 130uf caps in my SDA SRS 2's back in the fall of 2008. The 33uf were $7.74 each and the 100uf were $18.76 way back then.

You can also easily move to RDO-198's simply by bypassing a 5.8uf Sonicap (or other high quality cap) over the 2.7 ohm resistor closest to the polyswitch.

I would use Sonicaps for everything but the 130uf's for the tried and true upgrade so many here have enjoyed. If you are going to keep the 2A's for a while as you said, the Cardas posts are also highly recommended. I did this for both my SDA SRS 2 and SDA-2B upgrades with no regrets.

comfortablycurt

anonymouse wrote: »

I prefer the Dayton's over the Solen's for the midbass. I have tried both and I just seem to get more slam with the Dayton's

Interesting. I'll keep the Daytons in mind as an option.

inspiredsports wrote: »

Good luck with the upgrade.

As an alternative, I had great results with Aeon caps when I upgraded the 130uf caps in my SDA SRS 2's back in the fall of 2008. The 33uf were $7.74 each and the 100uf were $18.76 way back then.

You can also easily move to RDO-198's simply by bypassing a 5.8uf Sonicap (or other high quality cap) over the 2.7 ohm resistor closest to the polyswitch.

I would use Sonicaps for everything but the 130uf's for the tried and true upgrade so many here have enjoyed. If you are going to keep the 2A's for a while as you said, the Cardas posts are also highly recommended. I did this for both my SDA SRS 2 and SDA-2B upgrades with no regrets.

I take it you used multiple caps in series(parallel?) to create the 130uf value?

I'm also planning on eventually upgrading these to 198's. I'm going to mod the XO's first, and run them with the 194's for a while first though, so I can get a feel for them this way.

Then I'll mod the XO's for 198's, and swap them in.



I may also just end up going with Sonicaps for everything(aside from the 130's). I'm not really in a huge hurry to do this...so I should probably take the time and just do it right the first time.


Everyone seems to keep recommending the Cardas posts...so maybe I'll have to reconsider...



Thanks for the info.

falconcry72

I'm not really in a huge hurry to do this...so I should probably take the time and just do it right the first time.

i have no experience with the XO upgrades, but the logic above seems to apply to most things in life;)

JPSmario

Curt,

I'll be anxious to hear how this upgrade goes for you. My 2A's have been sounding better and better with the 194's, but I'm open to taking the upgrades further. I'm really wondering how the 198's would sound!

Best of luck,

Jim

comfortablycurt

falconcry72 wrote: »

i have no experience with the XO upgrades, but the logic above seems to apply to most things in life;)

Very true. Like I said above, I'm gonna replace the poly's with .5ohm resistors soon, just so I can get them back up and running for now. The rest of the XO's will be getting upgraded soon too though. I'm just going to start buying the parts a few at a time as I can, and once I finally have them all together, I'm going to tear into the 2A's and do it all at once.

JPSmario wrote: »

Curt,

I'll be anxious to hear how this upgrade goes for you. My 2A's have been sounding better and better with the 194's, but I'm open to taking the upgrades further. I'm really wondering how the 198's would sound!

Best of luck,

Jim

I'm very anxious to find out how it ends up too. It's going to be a while though before I've got 198's in them. I'm going to upgrade the XO's and leave the 194's in for a while, until the XO's are completely burned in. Then after I've got a feel for them, I'll further tweak the XO's and swap the 198's in.

I'll be keeping everyone updated on my progress.:)

comfortablycurt

Hey everyone,

Could someone tell me what style binding posts I'd need for my 2A's? The Cardas posts seem to come very highly recommended, so that's probably the direction I'll go. Could someone tell me what size/style I need? Please and thank you.:)

comfortablycurt

Alright...I think I've got somewhat of a finalized list of mods together. The Mortite and Dynamat Extreme mods have already been performed.

XO components-

HF circuit-
4x 2.7 ohm 12 watt Mills resistors-$15.40
2x 0.5 ohm 12 watt Mills resistors(to replace polyswitches)-$7.70
2x 12uf Gen I Sonicaps-$40.90

LF circuit-
4x 20uf Gen I Sonicaps-$114.40
4x 130uf Solen caps-$175.80


Cardas binding posts-Still unsure of what size/style I need...but somewhere in the $25-40 range I'm guessing.

Sonic Barrier 1" acoustic foam-still trying to figure out how much I'll need. I'm thinking at least 7-8 sheets of it...so probably about $90 for that

Larry's MW/PR mounting rings-$47

Mye Sound 1/2 UNC Brass Points, 1/4-20 thread pattern...x8-$120


Anyone see anything that I'm missing here? I'd definitely love to squeeze as much performance out of these as I possible can. Is there anything else I should look into doing, that I didn't mention above?



All that adds up to about $625 or so. Give or take a bit depending on how much the binding posts end up costing me. This should be a KILLER sounding pair of speakers when I'm done with them though. Shortly after this is all done, and the XO mods are all burned in, they'll be getting TL'd...which should make them even more badass.:cool: Once I'm done with all that, I think I'll be able to officially declare these as the most badass SDA 2A's around.;)

kawizx9r

New cloth for the grills while you're at it?

comfortablycurt

kawizx9r wrote: »

New cloth for the grills while you're at it?

Actually, I've already got some new cloth for the grills. It came with the speakers when I bought them. The glue isn't holding in all the corners anymore...and there are a few pulls here and there, and it's just generally faded. Once I'm done with all of the sonic modifications to them, I'm probably going to completely reveneer the cabinets, and I'll redo the grills then as well.

cnh

$625 for modding a set of SDA-2As. More power to you Curt. If it were me I'd just dump the 2As and try to find an already modded set of 1Cs for 900-1000 if I were going to spend that kind of money. But it's your call.

One of my SDA-2B tweeters (original SL-2000) acts up now and then...but inconistenly? I'll replace them with the RDOs and if that problem is still there. I'll rip out the tweeter XO and take it to a repair guy and get an estimate. All the cap/resistor values and work, just give me a headache. And I'm not going to put too much into them...just enough to bring the highs back. Good enough for me.

Good Luck!

cnh

heiney9

Curt, looks like you have everything covered. I hope you keep these for a long time because you'll never get what you invested out of them. I am all for tweaks, but if you have any idea of getting bigger SDA's within the next 3-5 years I'd seriously look at what you're spending.

With the cost of original purchase plus the mods you'll have over $800 probably closer to $900 invested and if you could sell them for more than $350, I'd be surprised. Not trying to be a buzz-kill at all, just pointing that out to you.

They will certainly be "killer" sounding SDA 2A's.