Can a PSW505 drive monitor 70's?

rhyek

Probably a stupid question. I'm currently wanting to replace my Logitech Z-2300 2.1 system since I recently fried my subwoofer after only a year of use and am looking for a good new setup. So I came upon the PSW505 on amazon and read some reviews where people recommend pairing it up with the Polk monitor 70s. I'm interested, of course, but I'm not sure if I'd need to buy a stereo reciever to complete the setup or if the PSW505 is capable of powering the speakers by itself.
I read that the subwoofer comes with speaker level outputs but no mention of wattage. I see most people drive the 70s with around 130 Watts per channel or so.
I'm running on a more or less modest budget and so far I'm thinking of purchasing an ASUS Xonar STX sound card, a couple of monitor 70s and the PSW505 for a 2.1 system. I mostly listen to music, but I do like watching movies as well. Expansion towards a 5.1 or 7.1 could come later for me.
For a 2.1 though, would I be set with just the components I mentioned or is it absolutely necessary to buy a stereo reciever for good quality sound? If so, any recommendations?

apphd

Welcome to CP rhyek. No you can not drive speakers off the speaker level outputs of a sub. Those are if you are getting your base signals from the speaker level outs from an amp to take the rest of the signal (what is not filtered out by the crossover to the sub driver) to your R/L speakers.

So yes you will need an amp or receiver to drive the 70's.

rhyek

Is that what you call bi-wiring the speakers? I guess that'd be connecting one of the speakers' inputs to the amp and the other to the sub's speaker level out?

cnoat

NO,the sub amp cannot run your mains.You need an avr or amp and pre amp.

cnoat

Any two channel would do you fine.Look at about a hundred a channel.The subs amp will power the lows and bypass to your 70's.Onkyo has a nice flat sound.Yammies are pretty bright.

comfortablycurt

rhyek wrote: »

Is that what you call bi-wiring the speakers? I guess that'd be connecting one of the speakers' inputs to the amp and the other to the sub's speaker level out?

No...that's not bi-wiring. That's simply a different connection method. The left/right outputs of your amp or receiver would be connected to the left/right inputs of the sub, then the Monitor 70's would be connected to the subs output.

In this connection method, the Monitor 70's are not being powered by the sub...the signal from the amp is simply being passed through the sub to the mains. The sub is then powering itself with it's own built in amp.

Bi-wiring is entirely different. Most of the newer Polks(and most newer speakers in general, for that matter), have two pairs of binding posts on the back. With a normal connection method, you only plug your speaker cables into one pair. There's a brass jumper plat that goes between the pairs of binding posts, to bridge the signal across to both pairs.

When bi-wiring, these jumper plates are removed, and you connect a pair of speaker cables to each pair of binding posts. This can be accomplished in a number of ways...You can simply get a pair of speakers cables meant for bi-wiring...they're terminated with just one pair of banana's/spades on the amp end, but the signal is split into four separates banana's/spades on the speaker end, and one pair is connected to each pair of binding posts.

Many modern AVR's also have a "bi-amp" feature, that is a waste of time IMO. The theory is, that you connect the normal front left/right channels to one pair of binding posts, and you use the surround back channels to connect to the other pair. The claim they make, is that hooking up the speakers to two pairs of outputs doubles the power that's going to your speakers. This isn't true though 99% of the time. The power for all channels in most AVR's, comes from one common power amp, and thus can't be doubled by simply connecting a pair of speakers to two pairs of outputs. Generally, the advertised power ratings of an amp are with only 2 channels, or even a single channel, driven at a time. Despite how they may be worded, such as "all channels driven", generally these test are with just one or two channels driven at a time.

Knowing that an AVR draws its power for all channels from one common power amp, and it's advertised power rating is 90(or 100, 110 etc) watts per channel(with two channels driven), there is no way that it's going to be doubling it's power output by connecting multiple pairs of outputs. The power output is still going to be exactly the same as with a single wiring method. Also, with most AVR's, their actual power output with 5 or 7 channels driven is significantly less than their advertised output. A 90 wpc AVR, for instance, may only actually be putting out about 45-50 wpc with 5 or 7 channels driven simultaneously.

A more appropriate term for an AVR's "bi-amp" mode, would be "bi-wire". There is much debate as to whether or not bi-wiring makes a difference. Many people have tried it, and claimed improvements. For the most part though, people say that it's a waste of time.

I've tried it myself with my Onkyo TX-SR606 and the RTi8's I used to have. I detected no improvements whatsoever when bi-wiring them.






Either way, with the setup you're describing, you'd need to get either a receiver, or some 2 channel separates. You mentioned eventually moving to 5.1 or 7.1...would you still do most of your music listening in 2 channel? If so, you could look into a 2 channel preamp with HT bypass, and you could eventually add a separate surround sound receiver. You'd be able to use your 2 channel preamp for listening to music, but when you wanted to watch a movie in surround sound, you'd just set the preamp to the bypass input, and it would pass through the signal from the surround receiver to your amp, without altering the signal at all. You'd have to make sure to buy a receiver with preamp outputs though.

If you prefer music in 2 channel, I would strongly suggest going with either an integrated amp, or a separate preamp and power amp. Most receivers can't even come close to the sound quality of a good 2 channel setup, and they throw in a lot of excess circuity, sound codecs, video processing circuitry etc... that you don't need at all for 2 channel listening.

What are you going to be using as a source(CD player/DVD player/computer etc...)?

What kind of budget are you thinking for a setup to power those speakers? Let us know, and we can give you plenty of suggestions to mull over.




By the way, welcome to Club Polk!!:)

rhyek

Thanks for the replies guys! Learning as I go.
comfortablycurt:
I've slowly been coming the conlcusion that a reciever would be pretty much overkill for me at the moment. I don't exactly plan on having more than just my PC and Wii on my particular setup. The PC already handles movie (bluray or other), tv, music, and video game audio playback and currently I've my Wii connected to the line-in jack on my current soundcard (the Wii doesn't do real surround sound anyways). Also I've been looking at some of the recievers brands such as Denon have to offer and I agree their power rating in most cases seems a bit lacking for the price! A lot of functionality and connections I'm not sure I'll ever be using. So, basically, I figure I'd do just fine with some sort of amp or amp/preamp solution to power the monitor 70s. Any advice with regards to that would be great! About the budget... I'm already spending close to $1000 with the soundcard, pair of speakers, and the subwoofer. I would like to keep it under $300 if possible.
By the way, I've read several reviews for those speakers from people claiming that with enough power pumped into them you don't really need a seperate subwoofer for general music listening. Sounds interesting. What are your thoughts on that? I'm currently disregarding that claim based on the fact that the subwoofer drivers on them are obviously small, also, I like bass. But it might be something to consider given the fact that I could for the moment use that money for a better amp, and get the subwoofer down the line anyways.
The sound card I mentioned does come with an S/PDIF output that I could use later on pairing it up with a surround sound reciever and mix that all in with whatever setup I get going now if possible.
Again, thanks for the replies, all.

cnh

The easiest solution would be to get a nice 'used' integrated amp like a NAD or a Cambridge Audio unit from Audiogon.com 300 is possible. And yes M70s can play music without a sub....most music...the bass is clean and reasonably fast and tight. No it's not as DEEP as using a sub. But a lot of music is not BASS heavy below 45-50hz. And the Ms can handle that area easily with enough quality power!

Happy hunting...there's ebay and craig'slist too..as you know. And keep your eyes on this site as well!

cnh

apphd

rhyek, $300 puts you in a used market. Looking at your requirements I would say look for an older 5.1 receiver that does not have HDMI. You should be able to find a nice AVR with enough power and connectivity to do what you want now and grow to meet all your needs as they are right now. To allow this to grow with you make sure it has pre-outs. The lack of HDMI may limit you a little, but not that much, and in a 2.1 system not at all. Onk., Denon, HK, Yamaha, everyone made what you are looking for, find the brand that has the sound you are partial to, then hunt down a good, well cared for unit in your price range. HK and NAD always seem to please paired with Polks.

Good Luck

C_o_l_e

If a receiver is overkill for you at the moment I highly recommend Logitech z680s or Z5500. They cannot be beat for that price range (~$400) and has some hardware decoding capabilities. I've used the Z5500s for the past seven years and I'm recently planning on buying M70s et al for a budget home theater system (which will run about $2K with everything). I'm definitely keeping the 5500s for another room though, they're that good.

rhyek

C_o_l_e: I loved my Z-2300s as a matter of fact. Best set of speakers I've owned to date (with regards to sound), but I know there's way better stuff out there in terms of sound quality, power, most noteably durability, etc., so I'm not even bothering with the 2-year warranty on the set and chosing to steer clear of Logitech.

What are your guys thoughts on the Onkyo M-282? 2 x 140 W at 8 ohms at $229 on Amazon.com seems like a good deal, but no pre-amp so no volume control. Silly question, how would I be able to control the volume on the set given that the soundcard's outputs are line-level?

Anyways, again guys, thanks for all the replies... appreciate the hospitality.

comfortablycurt

rhyek wrote: »

C_o_l_e: I loved my Z-2300s as a matter of fact. Best set of speakers I've owned to date (with regards to sound), but I know there's way better stuff out there in terms of sound quality, power, most noteably durability, etc., so I'm not even bothering with the 2-year warranty on the set and chosing to steer clear of Logitech.

What are your guys thoughts on the Onkyo M-282? 2 x 140 W at 8 ohms at $229 on Amazon.com seems like a good deal, but no pre-amp so no volume control. Silly question, how would I be able to control the volume on the set given that the soundcard's outputs are line-level?

Anyways, again guys, thanks for all the replies... appreciate the hospitality.

Good call on passing on the Logitechs. They make some decent media speakers...but they fall desperately short when compared to "real" speakers.


Regarding the Onkyo M-282...That's just a power amp. You'd need to get a separate preamp to put in between the output of your computer and the power amp. The output of your computer would go to the preamp, which would control your volume/inputs etc. Then the preamps outputs would go to the power amp.


I'd suggest looking in the used market myself. You can save a lot of money buying used gear.

For instance, here's an Onkyo M-282 on the 'gon for $180.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1274288847&/Onkyo-M-282-Black


I don't have any experience with that amp...but that's just an example.

hagmanm2

cnoat wrote: »

Any two channel would do you fine.Look at about a hundred a channel.The subs amp will power the lows and bypass to your 70's.Onkyo has a nice flat sound.Yammies are pretty bright.

I would disagree, after using and hearing 4 Onkyos (503, 504, 606, 801), I'd say they are bright, especially compared to many Yammies.

If you're on a tight budget (as I perpetually find myself), you can't beat this buy-it-now price. No remote though, which is keeping the price even lower.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-RX-V995-5-1-channel-Receiver_W0QQitemZ270560922153QQcmdZViewItemQQptZReceivers_Tuners?hash=item3efeb00a29#ht_500wt_1182


Both have pre-outs
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200261&CTID=5000300&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE



Also, I couldn't be happier with my AVR, which you can easily find for under 300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Denon-AVR-3805-7-1-channel-770-Watt-Receiver-black_W0QQitemZ130380965690QQcmdZViewItemQQptZReceivers_Tuners?hash=item1e5b4fa73a#ht_500wt_1182

http://www.usa.denon.com/productdetails/356.asp

*Both have pre-outs*

apphd

rhyek,^^^^^^^^Those are exactly the type of deals you should be looking for. Just find the brand that has the sound you like, use your head with deciding who to deal with and you'll be happy (maybe even happier) without all the latest and greatest features. Just make sure you will have the digital inputs you need (sounds like one optical for now).