Okay, Guys...the RTi12's Are Ready for Install...and A Subwoofer Surprise!

Mike LoManaco

Hey All,

Well...the RTi12's have been delivered, and boy are these things mean looking...you guys weren't kiddin'! I won't have them up and running until our new wall unit arrives, when I can reinstall the home theater system, but I'll check back in when I test 'em out...

ALSO: In the process of unpacking my sub in the new house, I came to realize that I made a mistake with the model we had -- it's actually a PSW350, not a PSW10 as I have been saying...here's the bad boy:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/recent/psw350/

The problem is, I have been using this sub for so long, through so many different moves and system installs, it simply slipped my mind which model it was...and so, at least this is better than the PSW10 I thought I was running...:o

Anyway, just thought I'd check back in and give you all an update; I'll let ya know when the HT is runnin'!

Thanks Guys.

leroyjr1

Congrats on your new purchase!!!!!!


Finally!!!:)

packetjones

Let us know what you think. Post some pics as well when you get it all hooked up.

maximillian

Share some pics to if you can.

leroyjr1

Yeah post some pics.. I know we can expect a detailed review once you get everything put together.

Mike LoManaco

I'll post HT pics just as soon as I can, guys -- thanks for all the welcomes!

Here's another question while I have some RTi12 experts at the ready...what would be the best settings at the PSW350 now that I will be running it with the RTi12's? Should PHASE still be set at 0 degrees? What about LOW PASS...should this still be at the highest setting (on the 350, that's about 160 Hz), or should it be around 120 Hz or so?

Thanks again, all!

Mike LoManaco

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Yeah post some pics.. I know we can expect a detailed review once you get everything put together.

LOL...Nahh...no detailed review of the 12's...most everyone here knows how they perform!

comfortablycurt

Awesome Mike! Good to hear they've arrived safely. That's great news on the sub too! The PSW350 is a substantially better sub than the PSW10.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts after you get some listening time in.:)

Mike LoManaco

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Awesome Mike! Good to hear they've arrived safely. That's great news on the sub too! The PSW350 is a substantially better sub than the PSW10.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts after you get some listening time in.:)

Thanks much, 'Curt.

comfortablycurt

BlueFox wrote: »

Polk does not have RTi12 listed as a model on the Products page. Is this a discontinued model? I was just curious what they looked like, and their specs?

They're the old version of the RTiA9. Here's their page in the discontinued products section.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/recent/rti12/

Mike LoManaco

Hey 'Curt,

What about the recommended settings on the rear of the PSW350, being used along with the RTi12's? Would you recommend leaving the PHASE to 0 degrees and the LOW PASS to the highest (160Hz) level?

Intel92

Mike - you'll love the speakers. Have had mine for almost a year now and they are excellent. I just moved and have just about finished my set up as well. I think tonight I will run the MCACC. What are you using to power them?

Mike LoManaco

Intel92 wrote: »

Mike - you'll love the speakers. Have had mine for almost a year now and they are excellent. I just moved and have just about finished my set up as well. I think tonight I will run the MCACC. What are you using to power them?

Thanks, Intel!

Unfortunately, I'm going to be sending 'em juice via an Onkyo 605; I simply cannot upgrade my amplification stage right now.

Intel92

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Thanks, Intel!

Unfortunately, I'm going to be sending 'em juice via an Onkyo 605; I simply cannot upgrade my amplification stage right now.

You'll be fine. I ran mine off my AVR until I had money to purchase my Carver from John here. Then I bought the RTi6s and now I think I want to purchase some FXis! gotta love it.

Mike LoManaco

Intel92 wrote: »

You'll be fine. I ran mine off my AVR until I had money to purchase my Carver from John here. Then I bought the RTi6s and now I think I want to purchase some FXis! gotta love it.

RTi6's?

BTW, would you happen to know the most ideal settings for the RTi12's running with a PSW350 sub in terms of the sub control's settings? Should the PHASE be on "0" degrees and the LOW PASS all the way up to 160Hz?

Intel92

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

RTi6's?

BTW, would you happen to know the most ideal settings for the RTi12's running with a PSW350 sub in terms of the sub control's settings? Should the PHASE be on "0" degrees and the LOW PASS all the way up to 160Hz?

RTi6s are my surrounds.

No idea on the PSW350. Sorry.

Mike LoManaco

Intel92 wrote: »

RTi6s are my surrounds.

No idea on the PSW350. Sorry.

Oh, OK -- gotcha. The RTi6's are bookshelves...:o

Thanks about the sub anyway.

cnh

Ok Mike..

Nice work....phase switch toggles from 0 to 180 degrees as a rule....what 'you' need to do is run some program material and get somebody to toggle the switch while your main speakers are running....your EARS will decide where the switch is best (0 or 180)...what you want to listen for is the loudest, tightest, cleanest bass you hear. That IS your setting. Could be either number!

Crossover...I'm not familiar with that sub but it may have a non-defeatable crossover since it is Older....if there is no LFE single sub line 'in' that is 'unfiltered'...just set the crossover to around 80 hz and play with it from there. Probably 80 will do ya!

And ENJOY!

cnh

danz1906

Nice Speakers Mike-Congrats!

kuntasensei

xcapri79 wrote: »

As cnh says try 80Hz and go from that point.
Your ears will dictate the final settings.

Oh, god no. Set it all the way to its upper limit and let the AVR do all the filtering. There's no need in having an analog filter in the way, because you risk cascading that filter with the ones on the AVR, creating a gap in frequency response (and analog filters can create a delay that can throw off proper distance/delay settings, as well as alter phase). On his 605, he needs to set LPF of LFE to 120Hz, then set all channels to 80Hz post-Audyssey. His AVR only has Audyssey 2EQ, but that ought to be sufficient to EQ the RTi12s. At the very least, it will get the distance/delay correct so that he can choose to turn off Audyssey's equalization later if he doesn't like it. cnh is spot on as far as phase goes, but most setups will stick with 0 degree phase, since the distance/delay settings will help ensure proper phase interaction between the speakers and sub. Audyssey also alters things in the time domain during its equalization, which should help ensure good phase correlation with the sub at 0 degrees phase.

Uh... someone quote all that so Mike can see it.

Sherardp

Congrats on the speaks bro. Make sure you power them with at least 200 wpc to get the most out of them. They will love you for it, trust me. I would even recommend Outlaw Audio monoblocks if you don't want to go multichannel amp.

Intel92

Sherardp wrote: »

Congrats on the speaks bro. Make sure you power them with at least 200 wpc to get the most out of them. They will love you for it, trust me. I would even recommend Outlaw Audio monoblocks if you don't want to go multichannel amp.

sorry to go off-topic but can you tell me where you got your center stand and rear mounts?

comfortablycurt

kuntasensei wrote: »

Oh, god no. Set it all the way to its upper limit and let the AVR do all the filtering. There's no need in having an analog filter in the way, because you risk cascading that filter with the ones on the AVR, creating a gap in frequency response (and analog filters can create a delay that can throw off proper distance/delay settings, as well as alter phase). On his 605, he needs to set LPF of LFE to 120Hz, then set all channels to 80Hz post-Audyssey. His AVR only has Audyssey 2EQ, but that ought to be sufficient to EQ the RTi12s. At the very least, it will get the distance/delay correct so that he can choose to turn off Audyssey's equalization later if he doesn't like it. cnh is spot on as far as phase goes, but most setups will stick with 0 degree phase, since the distance/delay settings will help ensure proper phase interaction between the speakers and sub. Audyssey also alters things in the time domain during its equalization, which should help ensure good phase correlation with the sub at 0 degrees phase.

Uh... someone quote all that so Mike can see it.

+1

You'd want the EQ on your sub all the way up to avoid double filtering the signal.

CNH is right about the phase question.

I always found that Audyssey did a pretty good job setting everything up on my 606. I'd imagine the 605 is about the same.

jacob.simpson

congrats and enjoy them and a nice surprise on the sub though,
Post some pictures and a good review would be great help.

cnh

I stand corrected...I'm assuming that that out is 'filtered' so I should have--if this is the case--said what kuntasensei has advised....

Setting the two close to each other (AVR and active sub crossover...) would, cause 'double filtering'. I should've thought that through before resonding so quickly because I've done that myself with an older 8" sub I have in my bedroom system....

But that's what makes this site great! Even when you miss...someone is there to catch you!

Carry on!

cnh

domflane

Congrats on the RTi's Mike, you're going to love them. And the PSW350 too, that's a hell of a lot more sub than the PSW10.

Kunta, thanks for the advice. I guess I've been double filtering my signal all along. You continue to be the best source of information concerning anything AVR related. To the other new guys around here, pay attention to kuntasensei, he knows his stuff . .

Mike LoManaco

Thanks for all the congrats, fellas...I appreciate 'em.

So, let me break this down so we're all on the same page about my setup and the way I'll be running the 350 and the RTi12's...

The SUB OUT from the TX-SR605 WILL indeed be going RCA out from the receiver to the 350's UNFILTERED LFE IN -- that's the only RCA level in that's on the rear of the sub. No speaker level inputs will be used.

Given this, should PHASE be on "0" degrees (assuming the sound is acceptable at this position) and the LOW PASS still set to the highest (which on the 350 is 160Hz)?

Mike LoManaco

BTW,

As usual, I'm receiving absolutely contradictory advice from another advisory forum on this matter; here's what was suggested to me regarding using the PSW350 and the 12's:

I would not use that sub with your RTi12's. The 12's go a good bit deeper than the sub does. So the sub will probably not integrate well and just make things muddy and not very clean down low.

PSW350 has a -3db point at 38hz which is not very low at all. The 12's have a -3db of 30hz. These specs are from the Polk site.

So run the 12's as large with no sub. This will result in the cleanest sound right now until you can get a real subwoofer that at extneds to 25 or 20hz.

When you get a better sub I would use a 60hz or maybe even a 40hz crossover point since the 12's are true full range speakers.

As for the controls on the back you would set the phase to 0 to start with and set the crossover to its highest point and use the crossovers in the receiver.

and...

However I think your making a mistake using the sub. The 12's are superior in every way and will sound much cleaner and go lower. You are going to give up bass extension and impact using the sub. I honestly can't understand why you would a sub like that. Truly baffled.

I suppose it's not really "contradictory advice" but this guy is simply slamming the 350 like there's no tomorrow; I want to use the 350 with the 12's, but will it really sound as awful and muddy as he is suggesting?

Also, would any of you agree on setting the receiver's crossover point for the RTi12 mains on something other than 80Hz? I was going to keep all channels crossed over at 80, once again, but should the 12's get some more room to breathe here?

Sherardp

Intel92 wrote: »

sorry to go off-topic but can you tell me where you got your center stand and rear mounts?

PM sent bro.

anamorphic96

Mike is quoting me above. I stand by my advice on not using the Polk sub with the 12's. Why would you want less bass extension and output. The 12's will walk all over that sub. One of the most important aspects of a good HT is deep bass extension. It adds that visceral impact to movies.

I still don't understand why people would use an 80hz crossover with the 12's since the are a true full range speaker. I still suggest using a 40hz or 60hz crossover on that speaker when you get a better sub with more extension and output. Why limit such a great set of speakers.

For the rest of your speakers 80hz is ideal.

BeefJerky

There's a very good reason to set the crossover to 80hz on his RTi12's right now. Mike's Onkyo AVR is limited on power, and asking it to drive the RTi12's full range is just asking for trouble. The AVR will run out of power very easily when trying to push the lower frequencies of the RTi12's. As such, it will be very easy to drive his AVR into distortion. This in turn will equal poor sound quality as well as increasing the likelihood of damage to his new speakers.

That said, should he add a more powerful outboard amplifier for the RTi12's later on, than by all means run them full range or with a lower crossover point.