Holy moly, they're finally gonna do it! $8.3b in loan guarantees for nuke plants

concealer404

oh **** it. nevermind.

nooshinjohn

Most power companies are already state-run entities, as they are vital to the communities they serve. The Fed also is already heavily involved in the power generation realm as reliable power is vital to the country, and to National Security. Building power plants has nothing to do with your rights, but I wish someone could curtail your first amendment rights long enough for you to understand what you are actuallty talking about.

nooshinjohn

xcapri79 wrote: »

Spoken like a true statist. You must think you are in France, Canada or China. and not the US....


If you want nuclear power, move to France and enjoy their taxes.

I am a Constitutionalist/Conservative... I believe that the best way for America to remain independent and free is to rid ourselves of dependance on others, particularily giving money to other nations that would do us harm (Saudi Arabia) and use our own money to fund our destruction.

The only viable and logical choice is to drill here at home(the left is against) and alternatives such as Nuclear power(the left hates this too). This is NOT a socialist issue or agenda. Rather, it is a matter of National Security that should transcend political/idiological debates. Unfortunately, those on the left are the ones OPPOSING THIS. The left/environmentalists in this country have blocked every major initiative to produce more power in this country for more than 40 years. They have stopped the construction of powerplants of any kind. They have blocked the exploration and drilling for oil at every opportunity, and have prevented the building of newer and more efficient refineries. This country has enough oil/coal in the ground to be completely energy independant for more than 100 years, but we cannot touch it by Executive Order.(ANWAR was made a natural habitat by Clinton)

You seem to be ill informed of the facts as your assertions fly in the face of facts, as is so often the case in your posts.

tonyb

Let me get this straight......so you don't mind nuclear energy,as long as the government doesn't fork over the cash for it? Your ok with it if private money was used?

If thats the case, then you should be all for uncle sam pulling out of pretty much everything else they throw money at. Medical research,University's, Infrastructure, National parks, College grants, and so on. I agree with you that taxation beyond the constitutional powers granted to them is theft, problem is, that line has been blurred for some time now. Doesn't make it ok, but you can't have it both ways.

nooshinjohn

xcapri79 wrote: »

If you claim to be a Constitutionalist/Conservative, you have been duped by the statists. Doesn't surprise me. They are very good at it. Take John McCain and the other Repubicans, for example. Come down from your ivory tower and learn more about the real world.

I am in the real world. McCain is no conservative, and a republican in name only... he has more in common with the current occupant of the White House than he has differences. The "statists" as you call them are actually PROGRESSIVES, and they exist within both parties. These people are dangerous and need to be exposed for who and what they are.

I have already gone beyond my political limit for one thread. x... if you would like to continue this discussion privately, I am happy to do so.:)

tonyb

What the government can do is remove the road blocks they themselves put up for private buisnesses to expand and explore the use of our own energy,and offer up some tax incentives to make it plausable. Then,they will be on trial by the left and the media for being in bed with the big bad energy companies. Where have I heard that before?:)

nooshinjohn

xcapri79 wrote: »

Do we want the do-gooder nanny state as nooshinjohn would like while claiming to be a Constitutionalist/Conservative?

If you really agree with what you just said, then please don't sound like John McCain as you did earlier in this thread.;)

Nobody is sounding anything like McCain here. I do Not want a nanny-state. Believe me when I tell you that power companies would jump at the chance to build these plants PRIVATELY if, and that is a huge IF, the government would keep the environmentalists at bay and actually allow them to do it. The Government's history on this issue is to play both ends against the middle by allowing the money to be spent to build them while allowing the plants to be blocked through the courts. Then they step in and bail the power companies out by buying the abandoned project.

Polk user wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Either way, the government wins because they get paid from both sides, can say they created jobs and are "concerned" for the children when they shut them down.

Get the government out of the way and let private enterprise get the job done and we would be under 4% unemployment in 18 months or less, and we would be energy independent to boot inside of 8 years. Hell, we might even begin to pay off the national debt by EXPORTING oil,coal and excess electricity generation from the new powerplants we have built.

obieone

Y'all are arguing over a moot point. This $8B is nothing more than an empty gesture.
Until someone reigns in the EPA, it won't come on line.

nooshinjohn

obieone wrote: »

y'all are arguing over a moot point. This $8b is nothing more than an empty gesture.
Until someone reigns in the epa, it won't come on line.

agreed 110%

markmarc

xj4094dg wrote: »

Agreed. The key to the success of the French system is continuity. Each plant is made exactly the same. What you find in one plant, you'll find in all of their plants. This keeps the costs down, simplifies maintenance and eliminates the risk of "one-off" designs melting down.

Nuclear is the way to go for sure.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!
I grew up watching a Nuke plant being built in Colorado. Every 3 months they would change a part of the design. In the end, the thing never worked correctly, was 4x over budget, and was converted to a natural gas plant.

France uses just two designs (if memory serves, one is by GE). Once construction starts, no changes are made. The plants are built on time and on budget.

Unlike others who see the end result being DOA. I'm betting the plant will be built. Look for a strong wave of patriotism to eventually overwelm the anti nuke crowd.

The bigger issue is developing a fuel rod recycling/reprocessing plant. The French have that as well, and getting one built will be a deal that will appease the moderate conservantionists. I hear Detroit is looking to add jobs.

hearingimpared

This whole discussion seems to sound like what goes on in the congress and senate. No wonder nothing gets done.

hearingimpared

markmarc wrote: »

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!
I grew up watching a Nuke plant being built in Colorado. Every 3 months they would change a part of the design. In the end, the thing never worked correctly, was 4x over budget, and was converted to a natural gas plant.

France uses just two designs (if memory serves, one is by GE). Once construction starts, no changes are made. The plants are built on time and on budget.

Unlike others who see the end result being DOA. I'm betting the plant will be built. Look for a strong wave of patriotism to eventually overwelm the anti nuke crowd.

The bigger issue is developing a fuel rod recycling/reprocessing plant. The French have that as well, and getting one built will be a deal that will appease the moderate conservantionists. I hear Detroit is looking to add jobs.

I agree with your points here. The problem with the bolded portion is the "anti" anything shouts louder than the patriots and they get tons of funding to further their agenda and they get the media to take their side. While the "patriots" sit patiently and wait for the "anti" faction to implode.

markmarc

hearingimpared wrote: »

I agree with your points here. The problem with the bolded portion is the "anti" anything shouts louder than the patriots and they get tons of funding to further their agenda and they get the media to take their side. While the "patriots" sit patiently and wait for the "anti" faction to implode.

Three years ago when the economy was rolling I would have agreed with you. But with the success of the Tea Party, I see a rise in the average American. Power company needs to get the construction unions involved as well.

It's too bad GWB didn't followup on a State of the Union statement to use military reservations/bases as places to build nuke plants. It's a great idea that limits the delay-to-build process.

hearingimpared

markmarc wrote: »

Three years ago when the economy was rolling I would have agreed with you. But with the success of the Tea Party, I see a rise in the average American. Power company needs to get the construction unions involved as well.

It's too bad GWB didn't followup on a State of the Union statement to use military reservations/bases as places to build nuke plants. It's a great idea that limits the delay-to-build process.

Great points and you are right the Tea Party is a push forward to get their (maybe our) ideals out in the open to counter the loud "anti's."

Polkersince85

You guys are going way off base on this. The friggin reactors are being built as you argue about it. We ( the customers of Ga. Power) have been paying an extra $8.00 a month for years to pay for this thing. The $8 billion is a loan guarantee. Not funding. It doesn't take socialism to build a reactor. It takes years of planning, private investment, a lot of red tape and hard work by all involved. This thing didn't just happen last week. Down here we don't have all the issues some have stated with building a plant. Ask some of the demonstrators at the SRS what happens down here. We don't F around. Maybe we'll loan ya'll some power someday.

end of rant

Demiurge

Polkersince85 wrote: »

You guys are going way off base on this. The friggin reactors are being built as you argue about it. We ( the customers of Ga. Power) have been paying an extra $8.00 a month for years to pay for this thing. The $8 billion is a loan guarantee. Not funding. It doesn't take socialism to build a reactor. It takes years of planning, private investment, a lot of red tape and hard work by all involved. This thing didn't just happen last week. Down here we don't have all the issues some have stated with building a plant. Ask some of the demonstrators at the SRS what happens down here. We don't F around. Maybe we'll loan ya'll some power someday.

end of rant

It's also a FEDERAL issue, so yes you DO have "all the issues" to deal with. I don't agree with all of the **** and red tape since I support nuclear power, but that doesn't change the fact it's there. What to do with all the nuclear waste is a political issue sadly, one even Georgians have to deal with.

These two reactors are NOT approved, nor does this company even have a license to build or run them:

Despite the financing, the reactors are far from a done deal: their design has not yet been fully approved by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, whose staff has raised questions about whether changes made to harden the plant against aircraft attack had made it more vulnerable to earthquakes.

The builders hope to have a license to build and run the plant by the end of next year, under a revised process that is supposed to eliminate problems that caused huge cost overruns in the 1970s and 1980s, when regulatory changes during construction added billions to costs. About 100 reactors were abandoned during construction in that era.

The Southern Company applied two years ago to the commission for permission to build and operate the reactors, adjacent to its Vogtle 1 and 2 reactors.

New York Slime Article

You say they're being built (reactors), but that is NOT the case.

tonyb

xcapri79 wrote: »

That alone won't work for nuclear power since the investment required is still too high especially with the huge financial risk due to assured cost overruns. The big bad oil companies are investor owned. Of course, the statist hates investment by private sector. For them the state needs to be all powerful so they can come to the aid of the poor stupid citizen.

If you pay attention to what the big oil companies rake in, I would say they could afford it as an investment. The thing I don't trust is this administrations commitment to anything other than it's own agenda. I know I just saw JP Morgan Chase,a friend of Obama, just threw down 1.5 billion in a joint venture with RBS for an "energy sharing" company. Interesting....is that code speak for carbon credits? Since Chase has the prez's ear,maybe they know something we don't. I have a feeling this prez is just trying to say what people want to hear, as he pushes his agenda, and let the next prez deal with actually getting the nukes online.

nooshinjohn

Gotta love the politics of Chi-town...

schwarcw

Demiurge wrote: »

You say they're being built (reactors), but that is NOT the case.

Demi, I really don't know what to say to see the situation. I'm an employee of Westinghouse Electric Company for 32 years (nuclear engineer). The plants have been on order for two years, The reactors, Steam generators, steam turbine, reactor coolant pumps, etc. are in fabrication at locations in Japan and Korea. Unfortunately there are no steel manufacturers who can make the large forgings. The site has been cleared, the river is being dredged, a barge slip, railroad access, etc. is being built. Site preparation work and procurement of key components for the plant are permitted without the approved joint construction and operating license. There is about two years of site prep work needed before the "actual construction" of the reactor system would be permitted. Don't be confused by the terminology of construction, site prep work, etc. Hundreds of millions of $$ are being spent by Southern Company on the Vogtle site in preparation for Units 3 and 4, and for the hardware that will be erected

The NRC has licensed the Westignhouse AP1000 reactor. The combined construction and operating license is under review by the NRC. The NRC has every intention of issuing the license after their Request for Additional Informations (RFIs) have been resolved. This process is routine, we've build 57 nuclear power plants in the US during the '60's and 70's this process will take it's due course and get approved. It is noteworthy that the NRC's request for funding of field operations offices and staff review personnel was passed by Congress and the President and they were granted more than was requested.

The Southern Company initiated contracts without the current Federal Loan Guarantees. When the loan guarantees became available, they took them as it helps their overall credit rating. These units are as real as they get. Startup and commercial operation are on schedule for 2015 and 2017 respectively.

The same process is underway in South Carolina at the VC Summer site. These units will also come on line in 2015 and 2017 respectively.

Both Sites have sufficient on site storage capacity for about 12 years of wet storage for spent nuclear fuel. After 12 years, the fuel can be stored dry on the site in dry cask storage containers. This is common practice today. The Obama administration has charged the Secretary of the DOE to undertake studies for the long term storage of nuclear fuel. Even more telling, Obama has acknowledged the US Government's responsibility for the fuel. DOE was sued by a group of nuclear utilities in Federal Court years ago, and the utilities won. A consent decree is in place but without the site license or funding (thanks to Congress) this has been stalled for years.

nooshinjohn

Are there any plans to re-certify those plants that have been built and never used?

schwarcw

It's very interesting to note and almost unbelievable, but the current administration has done more to restart a stalled nuclear program than both Bush adminstrations. Democrats and nuclear power have become unlikely and strange bed fellows. Very interesting from my perspective of being in this business for more than 30 years. I thought I had seen it all!

nooshinjohn

schwarcw wrote: »

It's very interesting to note and almost unbelievable, but the current administration has done more to restart a stalled nuclear program than both Bush adminstrations. Democrats and nuclear power have become unlikely and strange bed fellows. Very interesting from my perspective of being in this business for more than 30 years. I thought I had seen it all!

Agreed on this one... they ran it into the ground until they saw it could save the world from global warm...err climate change. It only illustrates for me the complete lack of principles on the nutty left. Now that it can make them look good in the eyes of the majority of the public, they are all over it like flies on a heaping pile of horseshit, and it smells.

schwarcw

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Are there any plans to re-certify those plants that have been built and never used?

TVA is completing construction of the Watts Bar 2 facility. Unit 2 construction was halted sometime in the late 80's. Unit 1 was completed in 1996.

TVA is also looking at it's Bellfonte site in Alabama where they cancelled 2 units in the 80's.

Entergy also has plans to add several units to it's Grand Gulf site in Mississippi.

nooshinjohn

what about the one mentioned in this thread... or is it to close to Kennebunkport?

tommyboy

:rolleyes:

schwarcw wrote: »

TVA is completing construction of the Watts Bar 2 facility. Unit 2 construction was halted sometime in the late 80's. Unit 1 was completed in 1996.

TVA is also looking at it's Bellfonte site in Alabama where they cancelled 2 units in the 80's.

Entergy also has plans to add several units to it's Grand Gulf site in Mississippi.

Quit pretending you know what you're talking about. Who do you think you work for, a nuclear company:rolleyes:

Edit: Dangit, you already told everyone on the last page you work for westinghouse. Well don't I look like the idiot:rolleyes:

Demiurge

schwarcw wrote: »

Demi, I really don't know what to say to see the situation.

There's nothing because it's a difference of opinion. These reactors are not being built right now and they're not a done deal. You can argue all you want that they will be, but I'm well within reason to be cynical about it. I tend to be very optimistic, but on this I am not and for good reason. Perhaps its the time I spend at my business dealing with defense contractors and government. I'd love to be wrong because expanded nuclear power is much needed in this country.

Furthermore, you work for a company that would benefit financially from these contracts being fulfilled, so I understand your optimism. Westinghouse is actually a customer of mine and we'd certainly see residuals as a result of your company fulfilling these contracts.

The bottom line is I'm saying these aren't done until they're done, and I hope it happens without legislation attached to kill manufacturing in the United States. Disagree all you want, but don't tell me these are currently being built (Polkersince85) when they're not.

brettw22

hearingimpared wrote: »

The problem with the bolded portion is the "anti" anything shouts louder than the patriots and they get tons of funding to further their agenda and they get the media to take their side. While the "patriots" sit patiently and wait for the "anti" faction to implode.

For a second I thought you were talking about the R party for the past 11 months.......had to read it again to see who said it......good stuff...

xj4094dg

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Agreed on this one... they ran it into the ground until they saw it could save the world from global warm...err climate change. It only illustrates for me the complete lack of principles on the nutty left. Now that it can make them look good in the eyes of the majority of the public, they are all over it like flies on a heaping pile of horseshit, and it smells.

I nominate Glenn Beck for President of Club Polk!

hearingimpared

xj4094dg wrote: »

I nominate Glenn Beck for President of Club Polk!

Off topic.

From Glen Beck Wikipedia;

Beck says of his political views, "I consider myself a libertarian. I'm a conservative, but every day that goes by I'm fighting for individual rights."[21] Among his core values Beck lists personal responsibility, private charity, the right to life, freedom of religion, limited government, and family as the cornerstone of society. Beck also believes in low national debt, and has said "A conservative believes that debt creates unhealthy relationships. Everyone, from the government on down, should live within their means and strive for financial independence."[22]

Beck supports individual gun ownership rights and is against gun control legislation.[23] He has suggested that President Barack Obama's proposed health care reform overhaul is a means by which Obama can effect reparations for slavery .[24] Beck believes that there is a lack of evidence that human activity is the main cause of global warming,[25] views the American Clean Energy and Security Act as a form of wealth redistribution, and has promoted a petition rejecting the Kyoto Protocol.[26]

Now those are ideals and an attitude that I can get behind.

obieone

Here's what I'd like to see: Congress put the U.S. Navy in charge of all the Nuke plants.
(Hyman Rickover may have been a psycho, but he was a SMART psycho.)

As long as the EPA has anything to with it, it'll never get done. Just look at all those poor farmers out in CA, because of some stupid guppy:mad: