Went out with the boy's...Had a bar question debate

avelanchefan

So me and some buddies went out the other night, and the subject of fighting came up. Now it was a generalized question but someone raised the question of if there is still "ethics" in your basic bar scruffle.

Most of the people we asked seemed to be with the attitude/conclusion that the way people are right now, you are better off fighting as dirty as possible to take your opponent down, then to risk the chance of that person being a certifiable nutjob, and just trying to fight with your fists, and have this person pull a knife, or even worse a gun on you.

So your thoughts.....fight dirty, or clean?

Knucklehead

Im no fighter, but if I had to defend myself or a loved one, its fight to win.

The fight scene in Anchorman comes to mind.

bobman1235

So you're saying you'd use a trident?

Willow

I wouldn't allow myself to get in to that situation. To answer your question, it's him or me? HIM! I'll do what ever it takes there are no rules when it comes to protecting your life. Again I just don't go to bars and I don't fight

Fireman32

I will do whatever I need to do to win. I am like Willow I will try not to get into that situation at all.

hearingimpared

Chairs, barstools, bottles, shoes, a skinny barmaid, etc . . . whatever is at hand!:eek::D All true in my youth.;)

TNRabbit

Take the biggest guy out first as quickly as possible. The element of surprise is REALLY important, especially if you're outnumbered~

Pycroft

I have strong feelings on this. I studied martial arts for 18 years, and can surely defend myself, but have never once used it. People should have self control to restrain themselves from physical violence. Too many times someone gets drunk, says somethign stupid, and all of a sudden it's an emergency room trip. To me, unless you have to seriously defend your life, things shouldn't come to blows. There was an incident last week where two guys at the supermarket rolled their shopping cart across the lot to try to get it into the big cart holder. They missed, and it hit my wife's car as we were getting into it. We got out, approached them...they were very confrontational. I could have gone over there cursing, making a ruckus...I went over calmly, told him what happened, and things were settled. If I went over there and he was rude, I'd take his licence plate number, call the cops and deal with it. If nothing gets resolved through that, nothing gets resolved. Unless I approached, and he pulled a knife, nothing.

If you have to defend your life, then you do what you have to, to survive.

James, the pacifist ninja.

exalted512

any means necessary.

If the dude is a nut job and has a knife...it doesnt matter if you go crazy or not...if they start losing, theyre going to pull it out.

I try really hard to avoid situations like those as I get older. I've been in a few fights in high school but nothing serious. Where I'm at in my life now, I'm not going to get in a fight unless my life or someone else's life is at stake. Which is exactly why I have my CHL...but you cant carry in a bar....but I rarely go to bars.

There's a place in town that teaches Krav Maga. Its an Israeli fighting style...you wont see it in MMA or anything because none of it would be considered legal. It is a self defense style that is meant to get you out of bad situations.
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-Cody

bobman1235

Pycroft wrote: »

I have strong feelings on this. I studied martial arts for 18 years, and can surely defend myself, but have never once used it. People should have self control to restrain themselves from physical violence. Too many times someone gets drunk, says somethign stupid, and all of a sudden it's an emergency room trip. To me, unless you have to seriously defend your life, things shouldn't come to blows. There was an incident last week where two guys at the supermarket rolled their shopping cart across the lot to try to get it into the big cart holder. They missed, and it hit my wife's car as we were getting into it. We got out, approached them...they were very confrontational. I could have gone over there cursing, making a ruckus...I went over calmly, told him what happened, and things were settled. If I went over there and he was rude, I'd take his licence plate number, call the cops and deal with it. If nothing gets resolved through that, nothing gets resolved. Unless I approached, and he pulled a knife, nothing.

If you have to defend your life, then you do what you have to, to survive.

James, the pacifist ninja.

Well said James.

tonyb

TNRabbit wrote: »

Take the biggest guy out first as quickly as possible. The element of surprise is REALLY important, especially if you're outnumbered~

Been there...done that. Works too. Try to avoid putting yourself in that situation though. I'm more of a laid back guy myself, unless pressed to be otherwise. Specifically in a bar, your life may depend on it, so I would say, without exception, if you had no other way out, move quickly, end it as fast as possible, by any means necessary.

billbillw

I don't go to bars much these days, but I spent plenty of time in them in my younger years, for about 15 solid years. The best thing to do is avoid situations that would lead to a fight. In all my years, I was never involved in any bar fights.

Some guys go out looking for trouble. Avoid them, and any girls they are with, and you won't have any problems.

devani

to fight for survival yes, I have a katana at home and will use it to defend my family....

BeRad

I've been going out to bars regularly for 10 years now and am frequently one of the drunkest people in the place (not alcoholic, alcohol enthusiast!). Luckily I can still carry myself well when intoxicated and don't get an inflated ego. I have had many occasions where someone would want to 'step' to myself or a friend for no real reason other than they are an idiot. We all just simply talk them down or walk away. The closest we came was when my buddy got sambucca in his eye and wiped it on a leather jacket on a seat belonging to a very large biker who saw. I grabbed him, threw him back first against the bar, and hauled him out by his neck while friend 2 appologized, bought him a drink and explained that we would rather take care of him ourselves than have a stranger kill him.

Anyway: I walk away. Some people would call me a **** for doing so and it doesn't bother me a bit. I still have all my teeth! If I was in a situation that had no escape route.. I'd use anything I could find as a weapon and go for the eyes and/or goods. Based on my experiences so far though, I'm pretty sure I'll never end up in a fight.

zingo

Jstas

I avoid the fights because there is extreme legal liability anymore.

But, that wasn't the question.

If I have to fight, there is no such thing as ethics or a "fair fight". In a boxing ring or "the octagon", you fight to win the fight in any way possible. The result is a check in the win column and a nice prize.

In a bar or on the street, the "prize", should you win, is your freedom and/or safety or even your life. You never know what the other guy is capable of which is all the more reason to avoid the fight in the first place. But a fight any place but a sanctioned event is a threat to your well-being. If you treat it as anything less than an attempt on your life, you've already lost.

You have two choices to save your skin. The first choice is avoidance. Talk your way out of it, cause a distraction or attract attention or just run. Some times that doesn't work and you are left with the other choice. The second is to stand and fight. If it comes to that, you had better be prepared to see it through because if your opponent can get up, they can still hurt you. That doesn't mean you have to kill them but neutralization doesn't mean you hug it out and buy your opponent a beer when it's all over.

I never throw the first punch. I really don't throw punches at all anymore. They hurt my hands and are relatively ineffective compared to submission holds. You need to cause pain so great your opponent is incapacitated and submissive or unconscious. I don't have any formal martial arts training like others but I know a few submission holds that have helped me alot. You don't need to be a black belt to get over on most opponents. Most people swing wildly and it is easy to use their off-balance weight against them at that point. The ones you do likely need a black belt to beat are also, likely black belts as well and they wouldn't be in the fight to begin with. If they do claim such a high level of training and they are still behaving that way, they are likely lying.

In the past I have dislocated joints, broken small joints like wrists and ankles and I've even rendered a person unconscious with a sleeper hold (rear naked choke for UFC fans). But in all cases, I wasn't the aggressor. I've been attacked over everything from a girl to winning a trivia contest in a bar. I even had a guy attack me after he ran a stop sign and hit my car.

Being of not so large a stature, I've had to deal with larger people attempting to intimidate me by many means. From grade school even until now. Some people just never really grow up. That has required me to stand up for myself on more than one occasion. When I was younger, my uncle told me three things to remember in a fight. Never underestimate your opponent. Always be willing and ready to take the fight farther than your opponent. Never leave you opponent standing, if he can get up, he can still hurt you. Now, in every confrontation I have, like a broken record, those words play over and over in my head. Thankfully though, in most cases you just have to subdue the opponent until either they give up or the police arrive. You'd be surprised at how accommodating the police can be when they show up and you just have a guy pinned to the ground instead of wailing on him with haymakers.

That said, a gun or a knife or even a baseball bat can totally negate any formal combat or martial arts training. All the more reason to avoid the altercation to begin with. You never know what is stuffed in a pocket, waist band, sock, sleeve or pant leg. Better to let the small-minded morons think you are afraid than to wind up dead over something stupid like a trivia contest.

My uncle also told me that if you don't want to be ripped off by a pickpocket, put your hands in your pockets.

shawn474

I don't fight because I am scared to get sued. I don't fight because I am 6'2" 180 lbs and have the reflexes of a hippopotamus. I have gotten my a$$ royally kicked twice attempting to be a mediator and break up fights. My opinion is that it never leads to anything good. In the end, what is gained is always outweighed by what is lost. Talking things out or walking away from a volatile situation is the best way to handle things IMHO.

vlam

The only "bar scuffle" that anyone should ever get into in a bar is if they are defending for their life. In today's world, one should not put themselves into that sort of position.

Now if you are defending for you life, anything goes and running is an option.

BAD ASP

bobman1235 wrote: »

Well said James.

Exactly, if you allow yourself to get dragged in to a fight and God forbid in your act of defending yourself you do serious injury to someone you will be held accountable. Nothing good can come out of a bar fight. Usually the folks that look to start trouble in bars have done it before and have the bash and dash mentallity.

Recently my son went out on a casual date with a girl he met. She mentions going to meet some of her friends at a bar she knows ( my son should have known better!). He should have known she was either going to give him the dust off or use him to show off. He's also a black belt and almost never goes to bars on dates. He agrees since she is acting nice and seems to be into him. They're there for an hour and in walks a guy 6'6" 300 lbs and drunk. She says oh oh it's my ex. My son has the lights go on and tries to excuse himself. Too late, the ex walks up to her, yells at her and then sucker punches her. My son stepped in, cleans the guys clock and now has to face battery charges for breaking this guys nose. Even though the ex has a felony rap sheet, my son could have walked away but didn't. He has a certain skill set that allows him to fight and now the attorney's are involved. At least she is being straight up and is suing the ex for her injuries and will testify on my son's behalf. Maybe a bit of a side track but it goes to the mentality you're dealing with in bar fights..... all I can add is Don't.

NJPOLKER

I am staying out of this one. However at Polkfest maybe I will share a few stories and like many of you I have some real winners.

Talweh

As stated above, I do all I can to avoid the fight in the first place, up to, and including walking away. But if my efforts fail, I was taught that there's no such thing as a fair fight. Do whatever you need to do to ensure the other guy is not going to come after you when it's over. If that means throwing a fistful of sand in his face, or ramming him face first into a parking meter, so be it.

xsmi

I don't go to bars. Go to youtube and search Route 66 Toledo to understand why.

hearingimpared

I haven't been in bars in quite a few years and I'm sure things have changed. My father always taught us to try to talk your way out of a fight or get the hell out of there. I tried that a few times in my youth and ended up getting blind sided or sucker punched. I was stabbed in the shoulder once and shot under the arm by some cowards. After that I learned to use all measures possible until the aggressor was down and out.

Now adays, I'm too old and careful and completely avoid any kind of scuffle. Sometimes it hurts my ego but I'd rather heal an ego than have to heal God knows what on my body.

cstmar01

bobman1235 wrote: »

So you're saying you'd use a trident?

I was thinking more of the gernade but ya know, tridents happen too. haa

to the OP. Eh I've been like a few fights in bars that well I got wonderfully dragged into. Most of them were just scuffles and nothing major happen besides the guys who started it got thrown out. For example I'm at the bar and my buddy sees his wife's sister in law and her well dumb bf type thing that is just a drunk mess. He nicely strolls over and then starts to hit on my buddies wife and says how he's taking her home to night ( not joking either). Well my friend tells him to back off and then starts pushing him around ect ect finally he takes a swing and my friend just punches him right in the face and I get one of his friends that is there, also very drunk. easy fight just punched them once and they were down.
I don't really care for getting into fights but if my buddy needs help, I'll do it. that and if a guy is really disrespectful of women I'll say something, normally just to have the guy back off ect and never really have a problem..

and I'm french so I'm more of a lover than a fighter, jk.

zombie boy 2000

I usually try to find the biggest, baddest hombre at the seediest bar in town and attempt to discuss politics. And by "discuss politics", I mean break a beer bottle over their head and proceed to headbutt them in the junk repeatedly. I find that most people find this act to be an excellent ice breaker and have generally made many friends in this fashion. Not necessarily at the bar, but at the local holding cell.

If I'm feeling particularly social that evening, I will enter said bar wearing my "mother's finest" and singing show tunes at the top of my lungs. Preferably in French.

Jstas

zombie boy 2000 wrote: »

If I'm feeling particularly social that evening, I will enter said bar wearing my "mother's finest" and singing show tunes at the top of my lungs. Preferably in French.

You too?!?!? Man! Here, I thought I was the only cuckoo cat who did that! Although I prefer to sing in Yiddish. It's been likened to the lovely sound of cats being beaten with a bag full of ****. Sometimes I do requests too. I just hate it when the drunkards pinch my butt and toss me hotel room keys without even buying me a drink let alone dinner! I mean, c'mon, I'm easy but I got standards, ya know?

raidersrule76

This is the reason that I know most of the bouncers in my home town. If I end up running to any kind of trouble all I have to do is give a holler and they are right there. I have never been in a fight in a bar and am not planning on it any time soon. I also just try to avoid the situation.

Mark

Jstas

That's the best thing to do. Be a considerate, paying patron of the bar. Be in good spirits and just a nice person. Say hi to the bouncers and be respectful and courteous to the bartenders, wait staff and hosts. If anyone has a problem and starts stuff, they will make sure the nice guy isn't disturbed and stays to keep spending money while the broke drunk is tossed out on his keister.

I rarely have issues at the bars that I frequent because the staff knows me and my friends and likes having us around. I only have problems when I go some place unfamiliar and with a crowd more along the lines of "amateurs" (young kids who are just barely old enough to drink and can't handle themselves). Then, if something does occur, both parties get booted and that doesn't make me a happy camper.

concealer404

I tended bar and doubled as a bouncer some nights when i was in college. (Those who have seen me will probably laugh, i was quite a different person then)

After seeing some of the crap pulled, and even being on the recieving end of some of it, if there are no other alternatives other than to fight, i will fight as dirty as necessary to get the job done. Would much rather not fight, period, but i'm not going to play nice at that point just because it's the right thing to do, because the right thing to do would just to be not fight at all.

I've been bitten, kicked in the junk, sucker punched in the back of the head, and....

Slapped. Yes. Slapped. By a fully grown adult male. I had to laugh at this one, which unfortunately angered him further, and then i received a boot to the groin.

Ah well.

obieone

Get your CCP, or stay out of bars

chillywilly

most people fight to win so anything goes. Fighting fair is for more organized events. I've heard people say they fight fair but when it comes down to nobody wants to get beat.