Tubes...what's the deal?

Pycroft

Okay,

I am obviously new to the hobby. I love my setup, but keep hearing about tubes. Here's what I think I know: You can have tubes in a pre-amp or amp...nothing else?

Here's what I don't know: Everything else. It seems many consider this a better option than a solid state amp. Here are some questions:

1) Is it true that that actual 'tube' is the most important? I see people selling JUST the tubes...if you get a shell of an amp, and unscrew the tube in their and upgrade, is that possible?

2) I've only heard a tube amp once, and for like 45 seconds...It seems that the power rating means less to a tube amp? For example, I heard SDA 1C's powered by a 30 watt tube amp. Would it be possible that a 30 watt tube amp can make the speakers sing better than my Carver 250 wpc amp?

3) If you go to tubes, what extra costs are there? For instance, when starting speakers, I didn't know you could upgrade crossovers, etc. Are there any additional expenses on top of the actual amp or pre that you buy?

4) Is it possible/practical to have a solid state amp and a tube pre-amp or vice versa?

5) What is the science behind the tube amp/preamp? Why is it better/worse?

I'm not looking to buy, but am always looking for good local deals. I figured I may as well ask and learn in case something pops up my way.

Thanks for the continued education.

James

heiney9

1) yes certain tubes can sound phenominal over other tubes.

2) tube power seems to be more robust that SS and it's subjective if one sounds "better" than the other. The 14wpc tube integrated in my office sounds A LOT better than my old 50wpc SS.

3) tubes can be very pricey and the allure for me is to roll many different kinds to find the sound I prefer. Tubes and tube gear *can* be finnicky sometimes and most tube gear needs to be powered up for about an hour to ge the tubes sounding their best.

4) many prefer a tube pre with a SS power amp. I suggest you start there.

5) that is a huge question which is more suited for Google.

Tubes Add Soul

Try it you'll like it

H9

ben62670

Tube amps tend to use more caps in the signal path. Cap rolling should be considered as much as tube rolling in many tube Pre's and amps.

mhardy6647

Here's a decent primer on vacuum tube audio applications.

www.anthemav.com/oldsitev1/pdf/taste.pdf

Vacuum tubes are exceptionally linear amplification devices; transistors are not. This does not mean that one cannot make a very linear, low-distortion amplifier with transistors; it's just a lot more work.

MANSKITO

I'm not sure if I'm sold on tubes are the best tech out there for sound yet. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that there is much higher quality control on tube products because there marketed marketed solely at the elitist in this industry and because of this more so then tubes vs solid state, tube products generally sound better because of the greater care that gos into designing these products.

Basically what i am saying because the MARKET DEMANDS that tube products sound the best, that makes them sound the best.

However that is not to say that tubes don't bring anything to table I m sure they do, I just think they bring less then most people give them credit for.

heiney9

Tubes are very linear, very forgiving and for the most part are used in simple circuits (less is better) and the 3 tube pieces I have, have very few caps in the signal path. Your typical Adcom amp will have more in the signal path on the whole than most tube gear.

ben62670

Read the whole thing. Best description of the short comings of SS gear. Namely OpAmps.
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/whytubes/whytubes.html

mhardy6647

ben62670 wrote: »

Read the whole thing. Best description of the short comings of SS gear. Namely OpAmps.
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/whytubes/whytubes.html

I assume you mean IC opamps, since it's perfectly possible to build opamps with discrete components, using either tubes or transistors... but there are much more fundamental shortcomings in the solid state; H9s previous post summarized things pretty dang cogently.

ben62670

Yes I meant IC OpAmps. Did you get a chance to read the link?

heiney9

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I assume you mean IC opamps, since it's perfectly possible to build opamps with discrete components, using either tubes or transistors... but there are much more fundamental shortcomings in the solid state; H9s previous post summarized things pretty dang cogently.

Thanks!!!

To the OP, that's not to say there aren't poor tube circuit designs that use poor tube selections or that transistors can't be made to be very linear and somewhat forgiving devices. IE; my Pass Aleph is a very simple circuit (2 gain stages, low negative feedback, no adjustments), extremely linear and mimmicks much of what is loved about tube circuits. It's a relatively expensive amp and in order to achieve a more pleasurable SS sound it's only capable of 30-40 wpc since it's a single ended pure Class A amp.

Right now I am in audio heaven running a tube pre-amp with the Aleph. It's about as close as one can get to perfection IMO. Lots of the best attributes of both SS and tubes and minimal of the lesser attributes of both.

mhardy6647

Nelson Pass is one of the more interesting and successful SS designers (IMNSHO) with a long and excellent track record. Best of all, he shares much of his insight and talent with the DIY crowd.
http://www.passdiy.com/

ben62670 wrote: »

Yes I meant IC OpAmps. Did you get a chance to read the link?

Yeah, after I posted :-P Looks like the "too many components" school of thought (to which I generally adhere).

John30_30

ben62670 wrote: »

Read the whole thing. Best description of the short comings of SS gear. Namely OpAmps.
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/whytubes/whytubes.html

Even if you don't understand his circuitry tweaks, its a great read just for this guy's hilarious English slang. Thanks for the link.

mopar paul

I have wondered this same question, so I listened to some tube stuff last week. I'm not going to get into brand names etc. but this tube system was very high end and cost around $100,000.00. It has an extremely low noise floor-actually undetectable. I was listening to some jazz and the sax seemed layed back, but very smooth. When I heard this on a $20,000.00 SS system I was actually more impressed by "details" and a more forward sax. I guess it's a matter of opinion a lot. Kinda like old musclecar vs new musclecars. I love the way tubes look though!