Tube rolling but don't know where to start
kawizx9r
Posts: 5,150
Title says it, before I'm able to add a preamp to my setup down the road (in the next couple of months) I'd like to know some of the many ways a different tube can alter the sound you get from your amp.
I've heard that tubes can add a type of 'discoloration', others provide better clarity, more/less bass punch, forward or even laid back sounding midrange and everything else you can think of. Can they have a great affect on how much power the amp will actually output? IE my amp is rated 150wpc/8ohm and 300wpc/4ohm respectively.
I know that in order to find the type of sound I'm looking for will require some "tube rolling", thing is I'm not sure what tubes would even be compatible with my amp. The number/letter combinations are foreign to me, so that's where I'll need some advice in as well. As always, all information is valued since all I ever seem to do here is learn.
Posted this pic in the "Show us your guts" thread but in case no one's seen it here it is:
Upgrades include some caps added, internal wiring upgraded to monster wire, upgraded binding posts and a now removable IEC cord. I didn't do the mods, friend whom I purchased it from did
Current tubes are some Electro something (will double check later) if I read correctly, and I guess the red rings around the tubes are tube dampers.
-Freddy
I've heard that tubes can add a type of 'discoloration', others provide better clarity, more/less bass punch, forward or even laid back sounding midrange and everything else you can think of. Can they have a great affect on how much power the amp will actually output? IE my amp is rated 150wpc/8ohm and 300wpc/4ohm respectively.
I know that in order to find the type of sound I'm looking for will require some "tube rolling", thing is I'm not sure what tubes would even be compatible with my amp. The number/letter combinations are foreign to me, so that's where I'll need some advice in as well. As always, all information is valued since all I ever seem to do here is learn.
Posted this pic in the "Show us your guts" thread but in case no one's seen it here it is:
Upgrades include some caps added, internal wiring upgraded to monster wire, upgraded binding posts and a now removable IEC cord. I didn't do the mods, friend whom I purchased it from did
Current tubes are some Electro something (will double check later) if I read correctly, and I guess the red rings around the tubes are tube dampers.
-Freddy
Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104
Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
Post edited by kawizx9r on
Comments
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I don't know much about tubes yet but I have been reading and learning. Brent Jesse has a nice site set up which may help you. Brent also lets the buyer listen to the tubes and for some reason they are not to your liking you can trade them back in for a different sounding tube/s.
http://www.audiotubes.com/
I hope all is going well for you. -
Very nice Amp!Linn AV5140 fronts
Linn AV5120 Center
Linn AV5140 Rears
M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
Odyssey Mono-Blocs
SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D -
I don't know much about tubes yet but I have been reading and learning. Brent Jesse has a nice site set up which may help you. Brent also lets the buyer listen to the tubes and for some reason they are not to your liking you can trade them back in for a different sounding tube/s.
http://www.audiotubes.com/
I hope all is going well for you.
I'm checking it out now, that's pretty damn cool though that you can trade them back and forth but I'd have to bias my amp each time I used a different pair of tubes right? That and I still don't know what tubes I can use in my amp.Very nice Amp!
Thanks, love the way it drives my 1C's Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
It would be helpful if you could tell us what the tube types are. Not the brand, the type.
That amp is a hybrid with SS outputs, so unless I'm mistaken the tubes do not require biasing.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It would be helpful if you could tell us what the tube types are. Not the brand, the type.
That amp is a hybrid with SS outputs, so unless I'm mistaken the tubes do not require biasing.
Friend had to bias it, and he stress-tested the amp for awhile on a pair of Maggies after switching out the tubes again and doing the mod. I'll remove the cover and get a closer look at see if I see a series of number/letters.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
SS amps need biasing too.
Looking at your picture, those 4 tubes appear to be 9 pin signal tubes, not power tubes and therefore cannot be biased.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
IIRC the unmodded Moscode used a pair of 6DJ8 and a pair of 6FQ7's,,, the modded versions had the caps and other parts upgraded,and the tube compliment was 4 6FQ7's.I used to have a box of 6FQ7's,,if you are interested,I'll look around and see if I have any left.It would be nice to know what mods were performed,as I've only owned one tube hybird,and the tubes did not have to be biased.YMMV--good luck.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Ha sweet, I got those numbers for the outside pair of 'larger' tubes. 6FQ7 and underneath that it says 6CG7. Electronica tubes from Holland.
The smaller inside pair is a bit hard to read but it says 6DJ8/E?C88.
I should've specified it's 1 mod, and like 3 upgrades. I'll post a close-up detailed pic. I should've made note of what was inside the amp when I had taken pics but now I've got them, thanks guys. Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
Here's the tubes
And here's the mod (Dayton's up above). The upgrades are; new binding posts, now-removable IEC cord, and monster wire from the posts straight to the board.
Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
Ok, the 6FQ7/6CG7's are GE labeled, but likely made by Philips or perhaps Amprex since you say they are marked Holland. Those are probably the "best" ones you'll find for that tube type. It appears that the 6DJ8/ECC88's are Electro-Harmonix's, you can do better.
BTW, keep an eye on that Monster cable as it tends to turn green/oxidize, which is not good.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Ok, the 6FQ7/6CG7's are GE labeled, but likely made by Philips or perhaps Amprex since you say they are marked Holland. Those are probably the "best" ones you'll find for that tube type. It appears that the 6DJ8/ECC88's are Electro-Harmonix's, you can do better.
BTW, keep an eye on that Monster cable as it tends to turn green/oxidize, which is not good.
Ok, so that narrows it down to going through only 1 pair of tubes. You answered this earlier but I just want to make sure since I'm stepping into a world I have no knowledge of. Biasing this thing is strictly the SS portion of this thing, so if I switched out tubes there's nothing required of me to do right?
And I'll keep an eye out on the cable, I remember seeing that stuff turning green on a pair of old speakers when I used rat shack wire. Thanks for the headsup though.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
Ha sweet, I got those numbers for the outside pair of 'larger' tubes. 6FQ7 and underneath that it says 6CG7. Electronica tubes from Holland.
The smaller inside pair is a bit hard to read but it says 6DJ8/E?C88.
I should've specified it's 1 mod, and like 3 upgrades. I'll post a close-up detailed pic. I should've made note of what was inside the amp when I had taken pics but now I've got them, thanks guys.
The mod that I'm referring to, replaced thirty something parts,and allowed the use of 4 6FQ7 tubes,,(instead of the 6DJ8) do you know who did the upgrade?If it were me,,I would get my read on regarding the input tubes,and determine how much they "flavor the sound" Nice amp BTW.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
george daniel wrote: »The mod that I'm referring to, replaced thirty something parts,and allowed the use of 4 6FQ7 tubes,,(instead of the 6DJ8) do you know who did the upgrade?If it were me,,I would get my read on regarding the input tubes,and determine how much they "flavor the sound" Nice amp BTW.
I read up on that one before, I guess I completely forgot about the site.
As for the mod, yea he's the same person that helped me build my sub today. He did one of the mods that's on the list of "must-haves" all done by the infamous (name withheld). So go off the numbers you and I both listed and read up on tubes that fit my amp then right? Most of my listening is acoustic/alternative/classical as well as powering my mains for HT in case you recommend something specific I should look at. Thanks again George and F1 Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
Ok, so that narrows it down to going through only 1 pair of tubes.
Well, I did say that the 6FQ7/6CG7's are probably the best, not that they are absolutely the best.Biasing this thing is strictly the SS portion of this thing, so if I switched out tubes there's nothing required of me to do right?
Correct.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Well, I did say that the 6FQ7/6CG7's are probably the best, not that they are absolutely the best.
I figured that, I see some guys here buying tubes at over 50 bucks a pop or so. I just thought I'd focus on my 'weaker' link but wouldn't mind upgrading all 4 tubes.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. It's entirely possible that those 6FQ7/6CG7's are the best ones you'll find of that type, but as I have no personal experience with that amp and that type of tube, I'm not going to proclaim them as the absolute best. If it were me, I'd start with replacing the the EH's.
$50.00 a tube isn't bad, it's when they get over $100-$200 a pop that it gets serious.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Geez, yea I'll stay away from those $200/ea tube pairs lol.
My setup isn't anywhere near that well to even display....or better yet reproduce the quality that the tubes or anything else can provide. *sigh* in due time....in due time.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
After you replace the 6DJ8's, if you are jonesing to try other 6FQ7/6CG7's,,I have a pair of NOS EI(yugoslovian made)6CG7's that I bought for backup for my HP amp.I also have some GE labeld (Matishusita's) as well,, and some NOS RCA's.As a side note,,it might be interesting to see what would need to be done to enable the use of 6FQ7's (in place of the 6DJ8).Yhe good news is that you can get great 6FQ7's,for much less than you are gonna pay for 6DJ8's,,YMMV. Whew.:)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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Just put some NOS 6H30P-DR's in my ARC Pre. We'll see how they sound.Michael
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