Need help with setup Onkyo 806 and Rti A's

dgl321
dgl321 Posts: 5
Hi everyone;
I used to have a small Kenwood Hometheather, but then I upgraded to a projector, and needed a receiver with HDMI, I choosed an Onkyo Tx Sr 806, but then thought the speakers were too small, and recently ordered from Polk a pair of Rti A9, Csi A6, 2 Fxi A6, 2 Rti A3, and a DSW 600, they haven't arrived yet (I live in Mexico and it long to deliver), but I'm worried now that the Onkyo won't power the speakers well enough, or at least that was what the salesman said, so I thought of an Adcom 7607 that he sugests, but I'm not really convinced that I need it or that it would make a difference. Advice is welcome, thanks.
Post edited by dgl321 on

Comments

  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited June 2009
    First off, welcome to Club Polk and congrats on buying some great new gear. That's a great system you're putting together.

    The 806 is a pretty beefy receiver, and it will be able to power those speakers, but not to their full potential(especially the A9's). The RTi's are pretty efficient, and don't take a lot of power to sing. That being said, the A9's will be running out of breath at higher volumes. As the biggest speaker in the RTi series, they do take a bit more power than the others.

    Like I said, the 806 will be able to power them, but not to their full potential.

    Your 806 has pre-amp outputs, so you'll be able to connect an external amp. While it isn't necessary, an amp will make them sound MUCH better. The power sections of an AVR are almost never going to match an external power amp. Aside from amps having more power on tap, they're also going to have much higher quality, cleaner, higher current output. It will make a big difference in the way your speakers sound. The RTi's have a reputation of being somewhat on the bright side, and an external amp will really help to tame the brightness. It's also going to make the mid-range a lot clearer and punchier, as well as tighen up the bass and make it a lot more lively sounding.

    If you don't want to spend the coin on a 7 channel amp, you could also get a 2 or 3 channel amp for the fronts. If you do a lot of movie watching, a 3 channel amp would the minimum I'd go with. That way your entire front soundstage is going to have a lot more power, and a higher dynamic range. The AVR will do fine powering the surrounds though. Of course, all of the speakers would benefit from amplification though.

    You could also buy a combination of amps, such as a 2 channel amp for front L/R(which would be the way to go if you listen to a lot of 2 channel music), along with a 5 channel amp for the center and surrounds. You could also just buy a 7 channel amp to power all of them.

    Adcom makes excellent amps, as does Rotel, Parasound and numerous other companies.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited June 2009
    DGL, welcome. You've ordered fine speakers and the amplifier in your 806 should certainly have more than enough maximum power capacity in nearly any circumstance that you'll be faced with. To be blunt, it appears likely that the salesman was lying to you to try to get a bigger commission. Most of the time your Polks will be using 1 watt or a bit less for a comfortably loud listening level. If you play music that has a very wide dynamic range, such as some classical music that I enjoy, brief split-second peaks will require much more, but not likely anything that the 806 can't handle easily.

    In the unlikely event that more is needed in the future, you could add a separate amplifier at that time, but you shouldn't assume that this would ever be necessary. Enjoy great music over the fine equipment that you'll have.
  • Poee7R
    Poee7R Posts: 904
    edited June 2009
    Heya Dgl, welcome to Club Polk.

    The 9's are a pretty efficient speaker at 90db, I would wait til you get it all there and hooked up to decide if something is missing. If you do feel you arent getting the most out of them, then its time to think about a seperate amplifier, but on the other side of that coin, you wont know until you listen.

    So give them a try off the reciever first, and if no bueno, then try an amp. If you get to that point, figure out a budget and let us know, you'll get more than enough recommendations for amplifiers.

    Good luck and enjoy your new HT, I'm sure it will be a blast.


    Dave
    Once again we meet at last.
  • dgl321
    dgl321 Posts: 5
    edited June 2009
    Thanks CCurt, John, and Dave.

    I'm glad I joined Club Polk to find experienced and friendly guys like you.

    With your opinions, basically my fears are cleared; so my 806 can handle the Rti's, but the amp, if not critically needed at first, would make a fine improvement to my system performance. It's good to hear this directly from users because when yoy hear it from a salesman, makes you feel uncertain (althought very likely) if there a commercial interest, like John said.

    I agree with Dave that the best should be to wait and try, but with the time it takes here in Mexico to receive what the shops don't have in stock, it would be a very long wait. With your suggestions I think I'll order the amp right away.

    But I'll need some more advice from you guys. The Adcom 7607 is 7 channel, but just 125 per channel, will this be enough, doesn't seems very different from the 806 receiver which states 130w per channel and also 7 channels. CCurt, yor suggestion seems right to me, do you think it would be better to have an amp for less channels but more watts, for example the adcom 7705 with 200 watts per channel and 5 channels, or to stick with the 7 x 125w 7607?

    My other doubt is if I should get a 2nd DSW 600 subwoofer that I have been told and also read so in this forums, because my room is kind of large, 18 x 36 x 12ft , I know that again the best should be to wait and try, but in your experience, do you think it would be desirable? The most use my equipment has is movies and video games.

    Thanks again,

    David
  • bklynNupe
    bklynNupe Posts: 728
    edited June 2009
    First off, welcome to Club Polk and congrats on buying some great new gear. That's a great system you're putting together.

    The 806 is a pretty beefy receiver, and it will be able to power those speakers, but not to their full potential(especially the A9's). The RTi's are pretty efficient, and don't take a lot of power to sing. That being said, the A9's will be running out of breath at higher volumes. As the biggest speaker in the RTi series, they do take a bit more power than the others.

    Like I said, the 806 will be able to power them, but not to their full potential.

    Your 806 has pre-amp outputs, so you'll be able to connect an external amp. While it isn't necessary, an amp will make them sound MUCH better. The power sections of an AVR are almost never going to match an external power amp. Aside from amps having more power on tap, they're also going to have much higher quality, cleaner, higher current output. It will make a big difference in the way your speakers sound. The RTi's have a reputation of being somewhat on the bright side, and an external amp will really help to tame the brightness. It's also going to make the mid-range a lot clearer and punchier, as well as tighen up the bass and make it a lot more lively sounding.

    If you don't want to spend the coin on a 7 channel amp, you could also get a 2 or 3 channel amp for the fronts. If you do a lot of movie watching, a 3 channel amp would the minimum I'd go with. That way your entire front soundstage is going to have a lot more power, and a higher dynamic range. The AVR will do fine powering the surrounds though. Of course, all of the speakers would benefit from amplification though.

    You could also buy a combination of amps, such as a 2 channel amp for front L/R(which would be the way to go if you listen to a lot of 2 channel music), along with a 5 channel amp for the center and surrounds. You could also just buy a 7 channel amp to power all of them.

    Adcom makes excellent amps, as does Rotel, Parasound and numerous other companies.

    +1
    Congrats on the new system. We have a lot in common.
    I previously owned a Kenwood HTIB and went from an Onkyo 606 to an 806. My new a9's are "on the truck for delivery" today!!! :D:cool::D
    They will replace some a5's which I have been pleased with but was looking for an extra KA-POW punch! I recently added the a6 as well. I'm running a 5.1 set up with two external emotiva 2-channel and 3- channel amps. When you are ready, you will definitely want the external amps IMO. The Onkyo is respectable, but the extra horses that an external will provide are necessary to bring out greater detail even at lower volumes. You will not go wrong when you decide to include that extra power. You might want to do a search on a few highly rated brands often debated on this forum. Opinions may vary on which is the "best" for you. The good thing is that most folks here refrain from wildly colorful claims and stick with data and person impressions.
    Have fun.

    emotiva xpa-2
    emotiva xpa-3
    Denon 3312ci
    Rtia9 /csia6 / FXi A6
    Samsung LN46A650
    SVS PB-12-NSD sub

    Audio Research SP-9 MKIII (GNSC mods)
    W4S ST250
    Lsi 9 (mods)
    W4S DAC-2
    Mac Mini
    Audio Aero Prima CD player
    Pro-Ject debut
  • dgl321
    dgl321 Posts: 5
    edited June 2009
    bklynNupe wrote: »
    +1
    Congrats on the new system. We have a lot in common.
    I previously owned a Kenwood HTIB and went from an Onkyo 606 to an 806. My new a9's are "on the truck for delivery" today!!! :D:cool::D
    They will replace some a5's which I have been pleased with but was looking for an extra KA-POW punch! I recently added the a6 as well. I'm running a 5.1 set up with two external emotiva 2-channel and 3- channel amps. When you are ready, you will definitely want the external amps IMO. The Onkyo is respectable, but the extra horses that an external will provide are necessary to bring out greater detail even at lower volumes. You will not go wrong when you decide to include that extra power. You might want to do a search on a few highly rated brands often debated on this forum. Opinions may vary on which is the "best" for you. The good thing is that most folks here refrain from wildly colorful claims and stick with data and person impressions.
    Have fun.

    Thanks Bklynnupe, your experience is greatly aprecciated, especially as I'll have a similar config to yours. I'll definitevly get an amp, and I'm already doing that research on brands and specs. Enjoy your new A9's.
  • Lib0rat0r
    Lib0rat0r Posts: 28
    edited June 2009
    I'm a new poster to these forums, but I've been reading the Polk and AVS forums for a while now.

    Anyway, a 125W amp is going to essentially do nothing. Because your Onkyo is going to output 130 watts per channel, it will output more power than your amp, and your amp may actually do more harm than good. Watts do not add together, such as the 130W out of the Onkyo plus the 125 watts from the amp adding up to 255 total W. The speakers are going to use the watts coming out of the amp...so if you buy an amp, you are going to want to go with one that has 130W per channel or higher.

    As for a subwoofer recommendation, you may or may not want to get a second sub. As in the other case, get what you ordered, try it out, and if you want more bass, get another sub, or get a more powerful one.
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited June 2009
    Lib0rat0r wrote: »
    I'm a new poster to these forums, but I've been reading the Polk and AVS forums for a while now.

    Anyway, a 125W amp is going to essentially do nothing. Because your Onkyo is going to output 130 watts per channel, it will output more power than your amp, and your amp may actually do more harm than good. Watts do not add together, such as the 130W out of the Onkyo plus the 125 watts from the amp adding up to 255 total W. The speakers are going to use the watts coming out of the amp...so if you buy an amp, you are going to want to go with one that has 130W per channel or higher.

    As for a subwoofer recommendation, you may or may not want to get a second sub. As in the other case, get what you ordered, try it out, and if you want more bass, get another sub, or get a more powerful one.

    Sorry man, but that is a huge load of bad information there.

    An external amp of 100 watts is going to blow away most AVR's that are rated at 130 watts.

    To start with, the Onkyo 806 isn't actually putting out it's rated 130 watts. With all channels driven, it's really only putting out about 65-70 watts per channel. Most companies test their AVR's with only 2 channels driven at a time, and the tests don't really reflect a real life scenarios. Their testing methods typically involve connecting the power to a false load, which is a constant load. You can rate a speaker at 8 ohms, but that's not going to be it's impedance at all times. It's just an average. It's constantly raising, and dipping, as the demands of the material change.

    Having more watts isn't the only point to getting an external amp. It's about having higher quality, higher current, cleaner power. That Adcom amp that you mentioned puts out a TRUE 125 watts per channel, of good high current juice. It will give you huge improvements over the sound of your AVR.

    Additionally, as far as wattage goes, In order to gain a 3 db increase in overall volume, you essentially have to double the wattage. 3db isn't even enough to tell a difference really. The difference in wattage is a mute point really.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • bklynNupe
    bklynNupe Posts: 728
    edited June 2009
    Lib0rat0r wrote: »
    I'm a new poster to these forums, but I've been reading the Polk and AVS forums for a while now.



    As for a subwoofer recommendation, you may or may not want to get a second sub. As in the other case, get what you ordered, try it out, and if you want more bass, get another sub, or get a more powerful one.

    I was still stuck on this sub advice, I thought it was a riddle. :confused:

    emotiva xpa-2
    emotiva xpa-3
    Denon 3312ci
    Rtia9 /csia6 / FXi A6
    Samsung LN46A650
    SVS PB-12-NSD sub

    Audio Research SP-9 MKIII (GNSC mods)
    W4S ST250
    Lsi 9 (mods)
    W4S DAC-2
    Mac Mini
    Audio Aero Prima CD player
    Pro-Ject debut
  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited June 2009
    I also have an Onkyo 806 and used it to power some RTi-12s (predecesor of the RTi-A9s, very similiar other than cabinet) as my front main speakers. The 806 will push the A9s, but not anywhere near to their full potential. I would hook up the setup you have coming in (very nice setup by the way)and enjoy until you can afford a good 3 channel amp. This will really wake those A9s up and you will have one heck of a fine home theater system.
  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
    I agree with everyone that an external amp, especially for the A-9's will make a noticable difference in the sound quality even at lower volumes.

    I have an Emotiva XPA-5 and a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5, The Emotiva is a great value for an excellent amp. You might consider the XPA-3 and power your center channel as well

    I would hold off on the 2nd subwoofer until you have your system up and running. The A-9 has a tremendous low end and placment of a 2nd sub could get alittle tricky.

    Welcome to Club Polk and enjoy a Great system, don't get too hung up on the equiptment just enjoy the sounds.

    Jimmy
  • dgl321
    dgl321 Posts: 5
    edited June 2009
    Dawgfish wrote: »
    I also have an Onkyo 806 and used it to power some RTi-12s (predecesor of the RTi-A9s, very similiar other than cabinet) as my front main speakers. The 806 will push the A9s, but not anywhere near to their full potential. I would hook up the setup you have coming in (very nice setup by the way)and enjoy until you can afford a good 3 channel amp. This will really wake those A9s up and you will have one heck of a fine home theater system.

    Thanks, I'm definitevely going to get the amp, after reading all this comments, I'm resarching right now about which one will suit my needs and my pockets.
  • dgl321
    dgl321 Posts: 5
    edited June 2009
    jimmydep wrote: »
    I agree with everyone that an external amp, especially for the A-9's will make a noticable difference in the sound quality even at lower volumes.

    I have an Emotiva XPA-5 and a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5, The Emotiva is a great value for an excellent amp. You might consider the XPA-3 and power your center channel as well

    I would hold off on the 2nd subwoofer until you have your system up and running. The A-9 has a tremendous low end and placment of a 2nd sub could get alittle tricky.

    Welcome to Club Polk and enjoy a Great system, don't get too hung up on the equiptment just enjoy the sounds.

    Jimmy

    Thanks Jimmy, and you are right, emotiva seems a good choice for me, mixing power, quality, and value. I liked the idea of the Adcom, but for a lot less bucks I could get a lot more watts, and with very good reviews.

    I'll also take your advice and hold my shopping frenzy on that 2nd sub till I try, I think long waiting for my speakers set has me too anxious and excited.