RTI a5's, tsi, monitor, svs sub...grr...advice?

renowilliams

jimmydep wrote: »

The LSI's are Great sounding speakers, If your ever in the NYC area stop by and give a listen.

I was powering my LSI 15, LSIC, LSIF\X's with a Yamaha RX-V665 95wpc receiver. It sounded alright but I always felt something was lacking, especially in the low midrange to bass frequency's. I added an Emotiva XPA-5 with [email]350wpc@4ohm.......WOW[/email]!!! the sound completely changed...the LSI's really came alive.

SO the LSI's are 4ohm power hungry extremely refined sounding BEASTS..
I did audition the RTI-A5 at Electronics Expo and I liked them, not as refined as the LSI's but with a good subwoofer they should be a great place to start especially if your not ready to make the jump to a seperate amp.

Jimmy

Your right about it being a sickness. I just bought a center channel and I'm already trying to decide what to buy next. I have to admit its more fun than I've had in a long time.


Anyway, no matter how the OP is going to build a system, the rtia5's are must have part of H/T system IMO. Just go buy them....lol

RyanJoz

I just received the A9's direct from polk and I would have to say after having 35i's for mains......go big or go home. Buy the fronts and a sub 1st if you prefer more bass and build the rest later. There is significant improvement over tv speakers just using a 2 ch receiver, front speakers, and a sub. A9's get my vote and hold off on the rest until you have a house or are out of college.

apphd

mdk5068 wrote: »

cnh,

I see that the lsi series is at 4 ohms, would my receiver be able to handle the lsi series? Say the setup I decided on was an lsic, and two lsi15's, and either a pair of lsifx's or fxi a6's. Would my meager yamaha rx-v659 be able to handle it? With the lsi15 and the lsic would i not be able to use the fxi a6's as a result of an improper timbre match? With the subwoofers in the lsi 15's would I need to retain my polk dswpro 400? Would I not be worse for wear in simply having the svs pb-12 nsd? As I am not willing to upgrade my receiver at this time, these questions could all easily be discarded if my receiver could not handle the power. Looking this up, (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v659/rx-v659-system-setup-configuration) it seems as though my receiver does have "enough" power, but as I am nowehere near experienced at this, any advice? I do understand that if this were possible I would surely need an external amplifier at some point!

Thank you so much,

Mark

Good to see you are doing your research. This topic is almost as volatile as cables, but here is my opinion on your AVR and 4 ohm speakers. The 659 I think was the pedecessor to the 663, 663 to the 665 mentioned by jimmyD. I think with each model release the amp section was weakened. So from what audioholics and jimmyD has said you certainly can drive the LSi with your AVR, but it really puts a strain on it. What audioholics said was Yamaha provided a selector switch that they felt was not required. They did not say how well this drove 4 ohm loads, or if this opinion was with two 4 ohm speakers or more. The more (5) speakers you use, the larger the load on the amp, the more 4 ohm speakers you use = even a larger load. Power hungry speakers tempt many to turn up the volume to a point where it is not necessarily overly loud, but can kick in the protect circuit and/or clip. This is hard on the speakers and the AVR. Not instantaneously deadly, just not healthy. And as jimmyD said not providing enough power for you to really get the sound quality out of the speakers you paid for. Unless you are ready to spring for an amp or AVR that is truly 4 ohm stable I would forget the LSi as an option.
Also you talk of running the Polk sub with the SVS, definitely something you can try, but many times it can be very difficult and time consuming to get two different subs to work together in giving good bass. They can start to work against each other and give you fits getting an even, smooth response. Not a no no so to speak, just may not give you better results than the SVS alone even after you spend days trying to integrate them.

I am a noob at this as well so I hope others can add to this in a way that will be informative for you and me.

cnh

mdk5068 wrote: »

cnh,

I see that the lsi series is at 4 ohms, would my receiver be able to handle the lsi series? Say the setup I decided on was an lsic, and two lsi15's, and either a pair of lsifx's or fxi a6's. Would my meager yamaha rx-v659 be able to handle it? With the lsi15 and the lsic would i not be able to use the fxi a6's as a result of an improper timbre match? With the subwoofers in the lsi 15's would I need to retain my polk dswpro 400? Would I not be worse for wear in simply having the svs pb-12 nsd? As I am not willing to upgrade my receiver at this time, these questions could all easily be discarded if my receiver could not handle the power. Looking this up, (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v659/rx-v659-system-setup-configuration) it seems as though my receiver does have "enough" power, but as I am nowehere near experienced at this, any advice? I do understand that if this were possible I would surely need an external amplifier at some point!

Thank you so much,

Mark

LSI 15's are a nice speaker so are the LSI9s and 25s. As Jimmy said above the LSI can be run on your receiver but my experience demoing these has been that even a 1500+ dollar Pioneer Elite AVR doesn't do them justice....they sound a bit muddy with low power--and as Ben mentions in another post. You really might not be impressed with the LSIs if you don't hear them amplified properly. That was certainly my experience at various audio stores till I got somebody to run these through a nice 400 Watt/channel (4 OHM capable amp). Then--things just opened up and were head and shoulders above other Polks, especially for MUSIC!

So the answer is if you're going to run those off that Yamaha stay with the RTIs and I highly recommend starting with the A5s but quickly moving them to the back and getting the serious Rti-A9s--a better balance between HT and Music IMHO. And of course the larger CSI center. I'd also move up the the 12" version of that SVS sub. But in order to do all that you're going to have to save some coin. And the Yamaha can power all that. But the A9s will benefit ENORMOUSLY, as well the center with external amps!

It's all a matter of money. Spend it now, or spend it latter. But PLANNING IS important. That's why I recommend RTI-A5s above ONLY if you plan to upgrade within that line. That's thinking ahead. the A9s are NICE!

cnh

mdk5068

cnh wrote: »

LSI 15's are a nice speaker so are the LSI9s and 25s. As Jimmy said above the LSI can be run on your receiver but my experience demoing these has been that even a 1500+ dollar Pioneer Elite AVR doesn't do them justice....they sound a bit muddy with low power--and as Ben mentions in another post. You really might not be impressed with the LSIs if you don't hear them amplified properly. That was certainly my experience at various audio stores till I got somebody to run these through a nice 400 Watt/channel (4 OHM capable amp). Then--things just opened up and were head and shoulders above other Polks, especially for MUSIC!

So the answer is if you're going to run those off that Yamaha stay with the RTIs and I highly recommend starting with the A5s but quickly moving them to the back and getting the serious Rti-A9s--a better balance between HT and Music IMHO. And of course the larger CSI center. I'd also move up the the 12" version of that SVS sub. But in order to do all that you're going to have to save some coin. And the Yamaha can power all that. But the A9s will benefit ENORMOUSLY, as well the center with external amps!

It's all a matter of money. Spend it now, or spend it latter. But PLANNING IS important. That's why I recommend RTI-A5s above ONLY if you plan to upgrade within that line. That's thinking ahead. the A9s are NICE!

cnh

Thank you so much guys this all has helped so much!

I think my course of action at this point is to sit down and make a direct decision on which line I will eventually want: rti or lsi. Both are doable, as my receiver is capable to minorly power them, and I have the extra money if necessary to get an amp like the Emotiva XPA-5 that was mentioned. My problem thus far, in terms of having upgrade syndrome, is that there was always something better. If I were to go with the lsi 15's and the lsixf's now, then I would not be due for an upgrade for a very long time. This would make me happy I believe, but so would getting new gear now, and having the opportunity to upgrade later (which everyone knows is a bit more money, but who doesn't love opening presents--especially electronics!). So it is really a decision between each line, and polk direct is the only reason this would be possible because they have the lsi series at an extremely good refurbished price. More than likely, I will stalk polk direct throughout the summer, kepping my eyes out for the rti series, and make the decision then. If polk direct doesnt have the rti a speakers in my time period, I will by default (and not to make this sound as if it is a sad last resort!) choose the lsi series. I will end up spending a bit more than my budget for the amp, but I do understand this to be a good investment. If anyone has an amp that is powerful enough, used, and at a much discounted price, let me know! Other than that I guess my future questions will involve the performance differences between the rti a and the lsi series. My one rti a setup would be the rti a 5/7/9, csi a6, fxia6's, and svs pb-12 nsd. The lsi setup would be the lsi 15's, lsic, lsixf's/fxia6's, and svs pb-12 nsd. Which is all around better for my 50/50 ht/music mindset? Would I be able to save some dough and get the fxia6's instead of the lsixf's or would they not be timbre matched/not powerful enough?

PS - People may say that upgrading is a pain, but I challenge them to evaluate how much fun it is, ha. Pretty, shiny, beautifully sounding and smelling new speakers are a treat to open. Christmas! Nobody hates Christmas...

--Mark

apphd

You have a great attitude for this hobby. The two speaker packages you are considering should be great no matter which one you go with. If you go LSi I would stick to the LSiXF's for the timbre matching. That said, timbre matching, in my opinion, is less of an issue with the surrounds and you could probably go with the FXiA6's and be happy. Which speaker line?......50/50 HT/music, budget that will allow LSi's and proper amplification......an easy answer....LSi all the way. But since you are not in a big hurry, try to get your ears on both. Just because you have the budget doesn't mean you have to use it if you would be happy with the RTi's.

Amps, the XPA you are thinking of will get it done. There are lots of used deals out there as well, keep an eye out in the for sale section here, and Audiogon: Outlaw, Parasound, Rotel, Carver, Adcom to name a few.

Your right about opening new toys, and upgrading, but one more little bit I will offer since you enjoy this, is do as much as you can now. A wife or serious GF comes along and most times it becomes harder to enjoy this luxury.

comfortablycurt

My opinions on the RTi A5's differ from CNH's quite a bit...I find them to be superb speakers, and are the gem of the RTi line IMO. The A9's are nice, but they aren't as practical in most situations...they're huge, and they really require a larger room to sound better. The A7's are a little overly bright IMO...a lot of people would disagree, but personally I'd stay away from them. Others are very happy with them though.

With a good sub, the lack of low bass in the A5's is basically insignificant. They have decent enough bass output even on their own.

Don't be afraid to look into the older versions of them. The RTi8's are what I'm using...the older version of the A5. I've listened to both(though not side by side), and I couldn't really tell a difference between them. The A5's were perhaps a tad warmer, but that could be due to varying room acoustics and other associated equipment.

You could save quite a bit of money by going with the older RTi's, rather than the RTiA's. Just a thought.

cnh

That's cool Curt...

But at least we agree about the A-7s....they are bright. A-9s are unwieldy for sure but not for a guy, me, who still has giant JBL studio monitors in a system (hefty beasts). And is soon to add SDA-2Bs. At least the A9s are narrow....


cnh

mdk5068

comfortablycurt wrote: »

My opinions on the RTi A5's differ from CNH's quite a bit...I find them to be superb speakers, and are the gem of the RTi line IMO. The A9's are nice, but they aren't as practical in most situations...they're huge, and they really require a larger room to sound better. The A7's are a little overly bright IMO...a lot of people would disagree, but personally I'd stay away from them. Others are very happy with them though.

With a good sub, the lack of low bass in the A5's is basically insignificant. They have decent enough bass output even on their own.

Don't be afraid to look into the older versions of them. The RTi8's are what I'm using...the older version of the A5. I've listened to both(though not side by side), and I couldn't really tell a difference between them. The A5's were perhaps a tad warmer, but that could be due to varying room acoustics and other associated equipment.

You could save quite a bit of money by going with the older RTi's, rather than the RTiA's. Just a thought.

curt,

I definitely agree with you on the saving money aspect! I wish I had gotten my hands on the rti8's or t90e speakers when they were hitting huge sales! unfortunately, I got my act in gear when they were winding down, with no decision until they were entirely gone. That would assuredly been my preference. The options that will present themselves in terms of polk direct are kind of up in the air, though. When an rti a speaker set goes up on polk direct, I will simply evaluate the better cost savings. A few questions on some random things though:

1. Would an amplifier even benefit rti a5's? Because that might make me feel better if I was making at least one semi-permanent upgrade by getting a decent amplifier.

2. Which amplifiers would people recommend for an rti a5/7/9 setup with csi a6 and fxi a6's?

3. Which amplifiers would people recommend for an lsi15, lsic, and lsixf setup?

4. What type of average prices have people seen the rti a5/7/9 and csi a6 going for on polk direct? Might help me make a budget in advance!

Thank you all so much, again, your advice really has been invaluable!

--Mark

cnh

The standard line here for amps is Carver, Rotel, Parasound, Adcom, Bryston, etc. Some like Emotivas (but that's a controversy). You would need at least 200 watts/channel in 8 ohms and 300 watt to 4 ohms. Any of these amps can be used with either speaker sets...there are more expensive, of course, you can get into McIntosh and Krells and--some boys own some pretty pricey stuff here!

You'd be best buying used because all this stuff--even the mid-fi is not cheap.

www.audiogon.com is your, my, friend!

I would recommend you get your ears on some of the amps above to see what 'you' like. For example some guys here are in love fest with Emotiva whereas others won't even listen to them. Some, many of us like Adcom, as a good basic almost bullet proof performance amp...but a few find that grainy, Parasounds sound smooth to me and bright to others.... We have a number of avid (Bob) Carver fans who swear by his amps and others who think they're overrated.

Hang around for a while and we'll REALLY confuse you.

Then there are the tube boys and girls who have left solid state amps behind and within the SS community the Class A fans (I have to say class A kicks A$$ myself though I don't own one).

Ask and there will only be more and more and more to ask. But hey that's the journey. If you want to see an incredible sound journey...check out Ricardo's system showcase history in that section of this site! INCREDIBLE!

cnh

Norm Apter

mdk5068 wrote: »

4. What type of average prices have people seen the rti a5/7/9 and csi a6 going for on polk direct?

--Mark

I'll let others chime in with the amp recommendations for the rtia line (You might be able to run your Yamaha receiver for a while before upgrading...imo, the rtia series (8 ohm load) aren't nearly in need of power as the lsi series. People will say that external amplification will provide a fuller sound and while I'm sure that is true, these are very responsive speakers and you won't have to worry about cranking the volume and damaging the receiver or speakers to the same extent you would with the lsi line. Depending on the power handling of your Yamaha, you could first try running it with that and see what you think. It does have pre-outs, right?

As for the prices on Polk Direct, I can just answer two: rtia 5 and csi a6.

When I last saw rtia 5s they were $380 (pair) plus $90 shipping.

The CsiA6 I got on Polk Direct was $130 plus $ 20 shipping.

But Polk Direct also charges sales tax though so you need to figure that in. They ship from San Diego and since I live in L.A. I was charged CA state sales tax (now 9.25%) but since you live outside of CA I'm not sure which state tax you would be required to pay (though I'm fairly certain that even non-California residents are charged this...someone can correct me if I am mistaken.

cnh

Heads up here's a post from Wizzy today...GREAT PRICING on RTI-8s..

Frys(.com) is selling RTi8's for $149 each

Buy them one at a time to potentially save on shipping

cnh

mdk5068

cnh wrote: »

Heads up here's a post from Wizzy today...GREAT PRICING on RTI-8s..

Frys(.com) is selling RTi8's for $149 each

Buy them one at a time to potentially save on shipping

cnh

I should have told you guys! I refuse to own any speaker not in black, ha. Sorry that I did not, it is just I have begun amassing furniture of a modern look and black speakers fit the decor! In terms of the amplifiers, I will definitely be making a decision on the speakers first, and view the amplifier as a must-have sometime in the future. All those brands you guys mentioned I am sure I must have a listen to before I choose one, any idea what type of stores in the Philly area have "auditioning?" The type of speaker I choose will be solely based on the prices polk direct puts in my lap in my buying period of time. Before august 14 I will have an upgraded speaker system, haha, so I will keep my eyes peeled!

--Mark

apphd

Depending on what you consider the "Philly area" it doesn't look good, for Polk speakers.

http://www.polkaudio.com/dealerlocator/index.php

Looks like there are plenty of places to check out amps, at least compared to the sticks where I'm at.

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/store/Audio/11/-1/

http://www.yellowbot.com/tags/stereoequipment/Philadelphia,%20PA/page1.html

mdk5068

apphd wrote: »

Depending on what you consider the "Philly area" it doesn't look good, for Polk speakers.

http://www.polkaudio.com/dealerlocator/index.php

Looks like there are plenty of places to check out amps, at least compared to the sticks where I'm at.

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/store/Audio/11/-1/

http://www.yellowbot.com/tags/stereoequipment/Philadelphia,%20PA/page1.html

Thank you I appreciate the direction! There is one 27 miles away or so from me, so maybe that would work alright. That would only be for the rti series, though, i'd have to go 56 for the lsi. Either way thank you though, it will definitely be worth it at some point soon to get an ear on things!

-mark