Are Pre-Amp's really that good?

Conradicles

Guys and Gals, I keep reading and hearing about how big of a difference a good Pre can make.

How does a rookie like me learn to shop for Pre-amps?

Are numbers and specs good to look for, or should I just trust positive reviews?

Thanks to all.:)

ben62670

First synergy is a ****. Everyone who has been around for a while knows my slight fetish with Adcom amps. They were commonly teamed with mid to lower level Adcom Pre's. This gave the "Adcom Amps" an unfair labeling as being grainy. The pre sets the flavor more than the amp in a lot of cases. The amp amplifies the signal of the Pre. Crap in is crap out. I am loving my custom DAC and passive pre setup. It has been the best in my system so far. George brought over a sweet tubed pre to Jerry's and that has been my favorite so far. Now that same pre on his Carver Amazings did not do it for me. Reading reviews online is a crap shoot at best. If you are going tube all I can say is try to demo it. Tube synergy is tougher than SS synergy. Also when swapping Pre's different wires behave differently. On My system the Shotgun S3's sounded very good on the mids. On Jerry's my cables sounded better than the Shotguns. I talked to George a little bit today and he said that my cables worked better on his latest setup than his others. I would stick around and watch what others are doing. Are you thinking SS, passive, or tube?

dkg999

The pre-amp is a pretty critical component, at least that is what I have learned in my most recent audio journeys. It's the hub that is going to filter all the components with its sound signature. That's one of the reasons I like tube pre's, I can do a little tweaking via rolling in different tubes.

lightman1

dkg999 wrote: »

The pre-amp is a pretty critical component, at least that is what I have learned in my most recent audio journeys. It's the hub that is going to filter all the components with its sound signature. That's one of the reasons I like tube pre's, I can do a little tweaking via rolling in different tubes.

TAAAA-DAAAAAA!!!!!!

Ben has some good points as well.

Eric. I have a few pre-amps lying around the house and not earning their keep (dishes, laundry, rent..etc.)
Say the word.
Russ

Early B.

Save yourself the aggravation and buy an integrated amp.

Conradicles

ben62670 wrote: »

Are you thinking SS, passive, or tube?

1st going to try SS (although I have been looking at some little tube gems on the gon that are not completely out of my price range).
Thanks Ben!

Conradicles

lightman1 wrote: »

I have a few pre-amps lying around the house and not earning their keep (dishes, laundry, rent..etc.)
Say the word.
Russ

Very cool Russ. I'll send you a PM, maybe I can rent 1 or 2 for a couple weeks and have some fun.

reeltrouble1

Conradicles wrote: »

Guys and Gals, I keep reading and hearing about how big of a difference a good Pre can make.

How does a rookie like me learn to shop for Pre-amps?

Thanks to all.:)

You go to Audiogon and buy a Manley Stingray.

RT1

heiney9

Yes, the pre is critical. I basically sets the sound for the system and can have a larger impact on the final sound than other components. Pre's comes in all shapes and sizes and are one of the hardest components in the chain to remain neutral. It takes alot o care and proper design many times with expensive components to remain neutral.

It also depends on what your needs are. Simpler is ALWAYS better. A vol. control, bal. control mininal switching and a power button. If you need complex switching or tone controls and fancy contour circuits, etc..............the sound will be quite compromised until you get into the mega buck pre's. Everything in the signal path will color the final output...........good or bad.

I've auditioned many pre's in my travels mostly in the sub $2000 range and they all sounded completely different.......night and day. Experimentaion is key to find the right synergy you prefer.

H9

Conradicles

Thanks H9, good info.

madmax

In my opinion unless you go ultra cheap or ultra expensive on a SS unit then tubes are the best "deal" on a preamp.
madmax

markmarc

Ben:
In my experience with Adcom amps and preamps of the 1980's, I'd say the amps were the guilty party when it came to graininess. Current models I don't have experience with.

Face

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

you go to audiogon and buy a manley stingray.

Rt1

+1...

Conradicles

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

You go to Audiogon and buy a Manley Stingray.

Very nice, but a wee bit out of my price range.
It is quite "Manly":D

pearsall001

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes, the pre is critical. I basically sets the sound for the system and can have a larger impact on the final sound than other components. Pre's comes in all shapes and sizes and are one of the hardest components in the chain to remain neutral. It takes alot o care and proper design many times with expensive components to remain neutral.

It also depends on what your needs are. Simpler is ALWAYS better. A vol. control, bal. control mininal switching and a power button. If you need complex switching or tone controls and fancy contour circuits, etc..............the sound will be quite compromised until you get into the mega buck pre's. Everything in the signal path will color the final output...........good or bad.

I've auditioned many pre's in my travels mostly in the sub $2000 range and they all sounded completely different.......night and day. Experimentaion is key to find the right synergy you prefer.

H9

How can a pre have the largest impact on the final sound & at the same time remain neutral? It's either adding it's own flavor to the signal or simply passing the signal unaltered (as a pre should do). These contradictions have always made me wonder....what actually is the pre's duty???? add flavor or not?

reeltrouble1

the pre should taste like cardboard.

RT1

NotaSuv

Conradicles wrote: »

Guys and Gals, I keep reading and hearing about how big of a difference a good Pre can make.

How does a rookie like me learn to shop for Pre-amps?

Are numbers and specs good to look for, or should I just trust positive reviews?

Thanks to all.:)

numbers,specs and what others say are all good BUT
trust your ears.......I have myself liking the sound of equipment that others have not liked.

heiney9

pearsall001 wrote: »

How can a pre have the largest impact on the final sound & at the same time remain neutral? It's either adding it's own flavor to the signal or simply passing the signal unaltered (as a pre should do). These contradictions have always made me wonder....what actually is the pre's duty???? add flavor or not?

Exactly, notice how in my orignal post I said CAN. No component is truly 100% exactly neutal and frankly I'm not sure we would them to be. My pre is very neutral in active mode, and dead neutral (just passing the signal to the vol. pot) in passive and depending on the recording the passive CAN sound dry and flat and then on other recordings it sounds superb.

The higher up the ladder you go......the more neutral you seem too find the pre-amp. But be careful waht you wish for not everyone likes their music so neutral and in the end we WILL ALWAYS be at the mercy of the recordings.

Having a great sounding dedicated pre is usually what most people find makes the most difference when moving from using thier AVR as a pre for a 2ch set-up.......even more than adding an amp to an AVR in some cases.

The pre-amp is a very underated component in the audio chain. People need to take care in choosing wisely as it CAN have a large impact on the sound.

dkg999

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

the pre should taste like cardboard.

RT1

Mine has a slightly metallic taste, with a hint of aluminum and copper

heiney9

Mine tastes like petroleum jelly...................:eek:.

reeltrouble1

dkg999 wrote: »

Mine has a slightly metallic taste, with a hint of aluminum and copper

hhmmmmmmm, I have heard this can occur in re-badged Pass designs. I recommend something with a sharp crunch, glass tastes better than sand.

RT1

george daniel

heiney9 wrote: »

Exactly, notice how in my orignal post I said CAN. No component is truly 100% exactly neutal and frankly I'm not sure we would them to be. My pre is very neutral in active mode, and dead neutral (just passing the signal to the vol. pot) in passive and depending on the recording the passive CAN sound dry and flat and then on other recordings it sounds superb.

The higher up the ladder you go......the more neutral you seem too find the pre-amp. But be careful waht you wish for not everyone likes their music so neutral and in the end we WILL ALWAYS be at the mercy of the recordings.

Having a great sounding dedicated pre is usually what most people find makes the most difference when moving from using thier AVR as a pre for a 2ch set-up.......even more than adding an amp to an AVR in some cases.

The pre-amp is a very underated component in the audio chain. People need to take care in choosing wisely as it CAN have a large impact on the sound.

Still struggling with the multiquote function,,, Brock says something in the 2nd paragraph,take heed,, about nuetrality,, took me awhile to work thru that aspect of my system (personally) Good advice.

reeltrouble1

heiney9 wrote: »

Mine tastes like petroleum jelly...................:eek:.

bro you are wide open on that one, take immediate cover.

RT1

KrazyMofo24

After experiencing it myself I know preamps can make a difference in sound. I recently purchased a B&K amp from suckstobeme, I brought the Haydn's over and it sounded great.

I get home hook it up the Harman/Kardon receiver, and it didn't sound good at all, it had a harsher sound. He's letting me tryout a Parasound P/SP-1000 which made a big difference the harshness is gone, and currently my best set up to date.


I am going to try to get a good tube preamp one day.

Face

I've noticed that the older the component, the more coloured the sound. Vintage Mac and Dynaco gear is very colored. Considering the quality of speakers that were available then, maybe that was a good thing.

But the lack of coloration can also be a bad thing. Combine a Cambridge CDP(pretty neutral IMO), passive preamp, and a Pass amp and you'll have the most transparent and sterile rig IMO. But that can also vary on speakers, cables, room, etc... As said here 1,000 times, it all comes down to synergy and every component is as important as the next in a rig.

dkg999

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

hhmmmmmmm, I have heard this can occur in re-badged Pass designs. I recommend something with a sharp crunch, glass tastes better than sand.

RT1

Pure yummy Audio Research in the main 2 ch system! I thought the bits of glass were to keep your teeth clean :eek:

Tubes Rule

heiney9

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

bro you are wide open on that one, take immediate cover.

RT1

It's been a crazy day...............so I thought I'd put that out there and see some of the responses .

Ricardo

All components are important, and how they work together is a lottery ticket. For me though, the preamp has the biggest influence in the width and depth of the soundstage.

W WALDECKER

Preamps are as important to the overall sound of the system as the source or loudspeakers are.I have owned several preamplifiers both SS and Tube and i prefer them to be fast and neutral over sweet and euphonic.what kind of budget are you working with and why may i ask do you want a SS preamp instead of one with tubes please dont fear tubes in a preamplifier because good small signal tubes will last for 10.000 hrs or more.thanks....WCW III

Conradicles

W WALDECKER wrote: »

what kind of budget are you working with

As of now, just trying to get my learn-on. I could not see myself spending over $350-$400 though, but who knows.

My kids keep me broke!:)

madmax

I've known a given preamp to add dynamic excitement by matching the input/output impedances better than another preamp did while remaining neutral. And, to pass the signal without change is one tough thing to do, even for a passive.
madmax