Nasa's latest price tag....

shack

I say let NASA do what they do best...exploring space...these folks are indeed the "rocket scientist". The fruits of what they do will solve many of the problems...but if you start telling them they have to solve this non-space issue or that non-space related problem...chances are some of the best and brightest will go elsewhere...because they can.

I feel that if we have the technology to put a probe on another planet 30 years ago, that we can invent a battery that will get us 150 mpg.

Per gallon of what?

BlueFox

venomclan wrote: »

Does this make too much sense?

Actually, it does not make any sense. We already know how to achieve energy independence. Add a $5.00/gallon gas tax, and stop buying trucks, SUVs, etc. No whining, just stop.

China is going full bore on space exploration (translation: militarization). This is not the time to stop. We need to accelerate developing space technology. Otherwise, in the near future China is just going to zip along in space and collect/disable all out satellites, and we will be powerless to prevent it. Of course, they will also have orbital nukes ready to go if we protest to loud.

thuffman03

How about not spending it and letting private industry and the free market determin the value of space travel.

shack

thuffman03 wrote:

How about not spending it and letting private industry and the free market determin the value of space travel.

There is no way private industry could foot the bill at this time. Space travel is currently in the realm of what should be considered national interest (as it should be IMO). Also I'm pretty sure the US govt. doesn't want something that could affect (disrupt) national security, telecommunications, etc, in the way space travel could to simply be in the hands of the highest bidder.

venomclan

shack wrote: »

I say let NASA do what they do best...exploring space...these folks are indeed the "rocket scientist". The fruits of what they do will solve many of the problems...but if you start telling them they have to solve this non-space issue or that non-space related problem...chances are some of the best and brightest will go elsewhere...because they can.

Per gallon of what?

Go where? Last I checked, NASA is fully funded our government, paid by taxpayers. If the people or our government cannot tell them what to do, who can? Are they unionized or something?

Pumpkin Juice

BlueFox wrote: »

Actually, it does not make any sense. We already know how to achieve energy independence. Add a $5.00/gallon gas tax, and stop buying trucks, SUVs, etc. No whining, just stop.

LOL, and where do those prices exist now? And how much public transportation exists in those countries that have those prices? Most of the country is too rural to ditch their cars. Business still need trucks. Groceries are delivered by 18 wheelers. Diesel will be $10/gallon. This will bring us into a deep depression faster than all else.

China is going full bore on space exploration (translation: militarization). This is not the time to stop. We need to accelerate developing space technology. Otherwise, in the near future China is just going to zip along in space and collect/disable all out satellites, and we will be powerless to prevent it. Of course, they will also have orbital nukes ready to go if we protest to loud.

Are you serious? We already have enough nukes to blow up the planet 10x over. I am not a pacifist by any means, but that is rediculous. I never said stop maintaining/updating our satillites. I said space exploration.

shack

venomclan wrote: »

Go where? Last I checked, NASA is fully funded our government, paid by taxpayers. If the people or our government cannot tell them what to do, who can? Are they unionized or something?

Sure they can tell them what to do. Can't make them stay. The ones I'm talking about can get a job or do whatever they want, when they want, for whom they want. These guys aren't in it for the money...most are truely the "rocket scientist" types that do it because it is space travel, exlploration and all that that entails. Take that away and they might as well go to work for the private sector and make the money. I know a few of these guys that work for NASA down in Huntsville, AL. The money is ok, but they are in it for the "project". Make them do something else and they are disinterested. It is ALL ABOUT SPACE for them.

venomclan

shack wrote: »

Sure they can tell them what to do. Can't make them stay. The ones I'm talking about can get a job or do whatever they want, when they want, for whom they want. These guys aren't in it for the money...most are truely the "rocket scientist" types that do it because it is space travel, exlploration and all that that entails. Take that away and they might as well go to work for the private sector and make the money. I know a few of these guys that work for NASA down in Huntsville, AL. The money is ok, but they are in it for the "project". Make them do something else and they are disinterested. It is ALL ABOUT SPACE for them.

Then let them leave. There will be others to take their place, especially in this economy. Plenty of military contracts being cut by barry means less places for them to go. I am not proposing killing NASA in any way. I suggest increase funding, but projects we need now. Not idealistic dreams. I am not talking about defense cuts. But how can collecting soil on Mars help us now? The big picture is, if we do not correct the problems we face now, there will be no money for NASA anyway. States are firing teachers, police and firemen due to lack of funding, how long do you think people (taxpayers) will stand for NASA spending if this continues?
Venom

shack

venomclan wrote:

States are firing teachers, police and firemen due to lack of funding, how long do you think people (taxpayers) will stand for NASA spending if this continues?

For quite some time I believe. As a nation settled and founded by explorers, I think the populace as a whole supports the exploration of space. I think that it is one of those government projects (expenditures) that actually creates meaningful jobs, provides meaningful research and technological advancement and is a symbol of the technology and greatness of the US and a great source of pride. Just let it appear that the Chinese are planning to put a man on Mars ahead of US and see how the demand for a ramped up NASA grows. As a nation we spend a lot more on stuff that pales in comparison to the value space exploration creates. I think every penny we spend on NASA is worthwhile for us and future generations. Anything less is very shortsighted IMO.

POIDOG

Shack is right on this one men. The investment in NASA is long term, not just money thrown down a rat hole

This site will give you an idea of what NASA is all about:

http://technology.jsc.nasa.gov/

It use to be "Go West Young Man" now it's "Space the New Frontier" :cool:

skrol

This last Hubble Servicing Mission has been one of the most exciting, with certainly the longest build-up, and now it is drawing to a close tomorrow. For the past 9 days we have been working strange 13 hour shifts and we are beat down and weary. I am left with very mixed feelings of relief that it is over, joy for the success, of longing for more, of sadness that it is over, sadness that an era is over.

Hubble will no longer cost the tax payers that $1billion. After more than 20 years of planning these missions, developing hardware and overcoming the impossible; it is time for a new phase of operations called "low cost ops". No longer will we plan servicing missions. It will be just survival. I am one of the fortunate ones who will be staying on the project. There is, however, a large, incredible group of extremely talented engineers who I have had the pleasure of working with for the past 18 years that will be off to find employment elsewhere. There are other young talented engineers who only came on the project recently, that have young families. They too will be seeking. All this comes at a bad time in the economy as developing programs are being cut. What will tomorrow bring?

Stan

ViperZ

Lorthos wrote: »

$1,000,000,000

To get Hubble back up and running again.... I don't know, I'd rather they would spend the money on a Mars mission. I hope to see that before I die....

Looking at the first few posts makes me really sad. That thing called Hubble is probably one of the most known space-related items in the world. The number of discoveries made with Hubble is to simply put - amazing.
Also, regarding shuttle flights... this might be one actually very useful flight, compared to all those flights to the space station and back...

I've been following the repair mission (well, it's part of my job, but anyway), and I am very glad that the telescope is very much improved and will work for another 10-15 years.

avelanchefan

venomclan wrote: »

My thoughts on NASA:

I feel that if we have the technology to put a probe on another planet 30 years ago, that we can invent a battery that will get us 150 mpg. I propose that NASA is given a 5 year mission to use our resources to help the American people become energy independent, using all methods we now know and many others I am sure they will discover. Just think of our power potential using Methane, Hydrogen, batteries, algae-based ethanol etc... without big oil, other countries etc. getting in the way. Lets go around those ****-hats to become strong again. Now is the time to do this, since our government owns 2 of our 3 automakers. Let's implement that technology to our home team.

Does this make too much sense?
Venom

I am with you Venom, I have always felt this way. I see it as this, we put every national resource into getting a man up in space and on the moon. I just cannot understand why we cannot do this for fuel effeciency? I understand the importance of oil, but if these so called activists are that serious about the globe and "global warming" (along with the president) then why cant we as a country get behind something like this?

I mean this really bother's me, and what is BS is McCain had proposed something like this on a smaller scale during the election. Basically asking that the private sector start trying to invent a cheap alternative to oil. And this would be governent funded if it was found to be easy to do on a national scale, PLUS a nice chunk of change for the inventor's work. So what happened, people scoffed at him, and made fun of the idea. I actually liked the idea. And really thought it would be a step in the right direction.

So what does this all come down too....money, money, money. The oil industry is just to powerful for something like this to ever occur. And what do we see today, people rejoicing and gushing over Obama's plan to make every vehicle average at least 35mpg by 2017. But those same people do not realize that less gas consumption means less gas tax, which means less money for these "gushers" pet projects. Plus it will mean much higher gas prices for the consumer so the oil complanies can still make their profit.

It's an effed up world.

Ron-P

ViperZ wrote: »

Looking at the first few posts makes me really sad.

What's truly sad is our government, and it's waste of our hard earned money. Scrap the Hubble and move on, oh, and lets not waste more money on a trip back to the moon, been there done that NASA?

Spend, spend, spend money we don't have, farther and farther in dept we go.

Ron-P

avelanchefan wrote: »

So what does this all come down too....money, money, money.

More importantly, politics, politics and politics.

avelanchefan wrote: »

It's an effed up world.

Yeah, but at least we can **** about it on audio forums.

skrol

Ron-P wrote: »

What's truly sad is our government, and it's waste of our hard earned money. Scrap the Hubble and move on, oh, and lets not waste more money on a trip back to the moon, been there done that NASA?

Spend, spend, spend money we don't have, farther and farther in dept we go.

You got your wish (almost). Like I said above, today I will say good bye to an incredibly talented group of people that I have known for my entire career, about half my life. No longer will I make trips to Houston to work with the astronauts (these are truly super folks both in ability and personality), or with the European Space Agency. We will now be low budget.

I am off to work now. Time to deploy Hubble from the shuttle cargo bay.
Good day ya' all!

HB27

skrol wrote: »

You got your wish (almost). Like I said above, today I will say good bye to an incredibly talented group of people that I have known for my entire career, about half my life. No longer will I make trips to Houston to work with the astronauts (these are truly super folks both in ability and personality), or with the European Space Agency. We will now be low budget.

I am off to work now. Time to deploy Hubble from the shuttle cargo bay.
Good day ya' all!

Best of luck and my best wishes for all.
Please give them a big "Thank you" from me for all the hard work and for keeping the "Dream" alive.
Harry

venomclan

avelanchefan wrote: »

So what does this all come down too....money, money, money. The oil industry is just to powerful for something like this to ever occur. And what do we see today, people rejoicing and gushing over Obama's plan to make every vehicle average at least 35mpg by 2017. But those same people do not realize that less gas consumption means less gas tax, which means less money for these "gushers" pet projects. Plus it will mean much higher gas prices for the consumer so the oil complanies can still make their profit. It's an effed up world.

What I find amusing about this is that those who oppose the idea about focusing on green energy from NASA, do not realize the amount of money NASA will be given for this. I am in International business, which includes marine, military, construction, communications, etc...Green is HOT!!!! Cheap oil has cooled it a bit, but that will not last too long. NASA will be given a blank check to work on oil independence, and big oil will throw every lobbyist they have to kill it.

You see, I am praising NASA. I think they are the smartest minds on the planet and are ours. My wife's cousin lives near Cape Canaveral and we see the launches all the time. Our country has lost it's focus. We are broken. We need something to get behind more than ever. Not for mankind, business or governments, greed or ego; but for the American people.

NASA is the key to this change. There will never be a conventional war like WWII fought again. Our enemies know that. So they are relying on our economic and political correctiveness failure. And we do more harm to ourselves than they ever could do. We are running out of time on so many levels. A long term project is idealist, but meaningless if we lose the ground we stand on.
Venom

shack

HB27 wrote:

Best of luck and my best wishes for all.

Please give them a big "Thank you" from me for all the hard work and for keeping the "Dream" alive.

Harry

I agree. I can only hope that all of the short sighted folks who think the space program is a waste of time and money realize how important it is.

Here are some thoughts from people a lot smarter and more visionary than I:

"I don't think the human race will survive the next thousand years, unless we spread into space. There are too many accidents that can befall life on a single planet. But I'm an optimist. We will reach out to the stars."

Stephen Hawking, interview with Daily Telegraph, 2001

"We must turn our guns away from each other and outwards, to defend the Earth, creating a global and in space network of sensors and telescopes to find asteroids that could destroy our planet and create the systems to stop them. It makes no sense to dream great dreams while waiting to be hit by a train."

Buzz Aldrin and Rick Tumlinson, Ad Astra Online, 2006

"Knowing what we know now, we are being irresponsible in our failure to make the scientific and technical progress we will need for protecting our newly discovered severely threatened and probably endangered species--us. NASA is not about the 'Adventure of Human Space Exploration,' we are in the deadly serious business of saving the species. All Human Exploration's bottom line is about preserving our species over the long haul."

Astronaut John Young,"The Big Picture"

"In the long run, a single-planet species will not survive. One day, I don't know when, but one day, there will be more humans living off the Earth than on it."

NASA director Mike Griffin, quoted in "Mars or Bust," Rolling Stone, 2006

"In spite of the opinions of certain narrow-minded people, who would shut up the human race upon this globe, as within some magic circle which it must never outstep, we shall one day travel to the moon, the planets, and the stars, with the same facility, rapidity, and certainty as we now make the voyage from Liverpool to New York."

Jules Verne, From the Earth to the Moon, 1865

"Don't tell me that man doesn't belong out there. Man belongs wherever he wants to go--and he'll do plenty well when he gets there."

Wernher von Braun, Time magazine, 1958

And lastly...this probably hits home for me on this thread as much as any of the quotes. I think it is as true now as it was in 1969.

"Many people are shrinking from the future and from participation in the movement toward a new, expanded reality. And, like homesick travelers abroad, they are focusing their anxieties on home. The reasons are not far to seek. We are at a turning point in human history... We could turn our attention to the problems that going to the moon certainly will not solve ... But I think this would be fatal to our future... A society that no longer moves forward does not merely stagnate; it begins to die."

Anthropologist Margaret Mead, "Man on the Moon," Redbook Magazine, 1969

tonyb

Couldn't agree more with Shack's assesment.It's more about preservation of the species,us,than anything.Plus the more knowledge we get from space,the more we can tune that to new technologies down here.Win-win as I see it.

skrol

I hadn't heard the last quote before, but it sums up what I feel about the objective of NASA and others who focus on exploration. Yes, exploration not only includes reaching out beyond our planet but reaching out beyond our present ideas and ways of doing things. Yes, explore new materials, explore new technologies, explore new means of propulsion, explore new means of generating and transferring energy. Push the envelope but the push comes with a price tag. If you don't pay that price someone else will and we may be under the thumb of a country like China instead of the Middle East.

Man, how did we get here?

skrol

Well, the Servicing Mission is over and was extremely successful. My new batteries are working better than I expected even in the few orbits of free flight that we have racked up. I am completely exhausted.
Stan

shack

skrol wrote:

Well, the Servicing Mission is over and was extremely successful. My new batteries are working better than I expected even in the few orbits of free flight that we have racked up. I am completely exhausted.
Stan

Maybe...just maybe...Hubble will spot that asteriod or comet on a collison path with Earth many light years away in time for us to do something about it. Or find more stuff out there that we never knew existed. Either way...Good job!

skrol

What usually happens is once the scientists begin to utilize the new capabilities of the new science instruments, they see something unexpected (ie. look up Hubble Deep Field). It will raise even more questions and spark new science observation proposals. This is when they start re-writing the science books.

Kex

Congratulations on great work, Stan. It's fabulous to see space repair such as this actually work in reality. I certainly do not begrudge my tax dollars being spent on projects such as these that serve to elevate humankind as a whole, as long as they are managed efficiently.

Now that we know how little $1B really is, in todays terms, perhaps we should be thinking about increasing the NASA budget for exploration and new space technologies, not reducing it. It may seem like throwing money at dreams, money we don't actually have to spend, but some of those dreams actually do come true in some form or other, sometimes unexpectedly, whereas some of the money we throw at other things has no hope of ever revealing anything of any import to anyone.