Good Idea to Refinish Monitor 7's?

rengnath

Hello,
My monitor 7's are in pretty decent shape, only showing some scratches and the shine is dull. I dont mind the rosewood color, i just was thinking about LIGHTLY sanding the veneer being very careful not to sand through it, and then do a brush on sealer. Anyone have experience with this? Suggestions? Is it a good idea or is it most likely to end in disaster? Also, what would be the best way to refinish the stands for them? The goal is to make them look original, and I feel pretty confident that I can refinish them if I take my time. I have done several wood projects, and have dealt with veneer a couple times before. Thanks everyone

Ricardo

Good idea to refinish them, but not in the way you are thinking. The M7's don't have wood veneer; it is vinyl.

Some people have had great results removing the vinyl and applying real wood venner. More work, but great results if you're handy.

rengnath

Thats unfortunate. I no longer have access to a table saw. I guess I will just keep them the way the are and keep my eye open for a pair of cases in mint condition. Thanks for your help.

F1nut

A table saw is the last tool in the world needed to veneer anything.

I've seen products on the market that will "restore" old vinyl, but I've never tried any. Search around for reviews, etc.

Ender

Ooohhhh... I would like to know about any finishing done to Monitor 7's too. Please pm me. I have Monitor 7's in my sights.

rengnath

How hard is it to veneer a speaker then? I was thinking about plywood veneer. Where can you get veneer by itself?

F1nut

Simply Google veneer or look it up in your local yellow pages.

comfortablycurt

I've been thinking about doing this myself. I've got a pair of 7A's, with the vinyl veneer...it's in pretty good shape, but real wood would look a thousand times better.

You can get veneer at any lumber yard...most hardware stores, hobby stores. Parts Express has some that looks pretty nice for not to much money.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but weren't there some Monitor series speakers that had real wood veneer?

LessisNevermore

rengnath wrote: »

How hard is it to veneer a speaker then? I was thinking about plywood veneer. Where can you get veneer by itself?

You'd be better off finding a cabinet maker that will do it right, the first time.

But if you're feeling froggy.......
Go find a pair of junk speaker cabinets that someone has set out to the curb, or garage sales, etc. Practice on those, using cheap veneer, not some exotic wood.

Odds are better than chance, that you'll screw it up bad on the first go, so do it on something that doesn't matter.

Google is your friend, but here's a start..http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=1459

comfortablycurt

LessisNevermore wrote: »

You'd be better off finding a cabinet maker that will do it right, the first time.

But if you're feeling froggy.......
Go find a pair of junk speaker cabinets that someone has set out to the curb, or garage sales, etc. Practice on those, using cheap veneer, not some exotic wood.

Odds are better than chance, that you'll screw it up bad on the first go, so do it on something that doesn't matter.

Google is your friend.

Good advice Duell. Veneering is fairly simple...but it is definitely a trial and error process. Practicing on something other than your Monitor 7's would be a very good suggestion.

John30_30

F1nut wrote: »

A table saw is the last tool in the world needed to veneer anything.

+1. Box-cutter and a straight-edge, or even some upholstery shears. Flush-cutter router bit, or there's hand-type trimmers.

As far as cheap veneer, I don't know what that means.

LessisNevermore

John30_30 wrote: »

As far as cheap veneer, I don't know what that means.

As in, oak had better be cheaper than rosewood, for a non-backed veneer.
If I were taking the time and effort to re-finish a pair of speakers, it would be with something to make them more attractive.

If you still don't know what that means, start pricing exotic wood veneers, vs. common domestic.

rengnath

Im going to talk with a friend of the family whos a cabinet maker for a living. I dont think I will be able to do anything myself without taking to big of risk ruining the speakers. Thanks for your help everyone. Generally, I wouldnt do my research and wouldve just started sanding. That couldve been bad!

F1nut

You can, if you want to, get a head start on the project. The vinyl will have to come off. Starting at one corner, use a heat gun to loosen the glue holding the vinyl on and simply peel it off.

LessisNevermore

F1nut wrote: »

You can, if you want to, get a head start on the project. The vinyl will have to come off. Starting at one corner, use a heat gun to loosen the glue holding the vinyl on and simply peel it off.

Yep, that will save you some labor costs, or at least your family friend will appreciate not having to do it.

Be careful with the heat gun. Only get it warm enough to soften the vinyl wrap. You don't want to melt it, or get the particle board hot enough to start softening the glue joints.

rengnath

When i peel off the vinyl, what will the surface underneath it be like? Something that could be sanded smooth, primed and painted?

F1nut

It'll be MDF with glue residue. Sand smooth, do not prime or paint if you plan on veneering them.

rengnath

Is there a way to get a piano black finish if I prime them and sand with an extremly high grit sand paper? I would want them to be shiny black if I were to paint them.

ben62670

I would still veneer them so you have a nice clean surface. Trying to paint them over the glue on the cabs would be impossible. You would have to make sure you removed all the glue. That would not be easy. I have some Mahogany veneer here if you need some.

John30_30

LessisNevermore wrote: »

As in, oak had better be cheaper than rosewood, for a non-backed veneer.
If I were taking the time and effort to re-finish a pair of speakers, it would be with something to make them more attractive.

If you still don't know what that means, start pricing exotic wood veneers, vs. common domestic.

I've been pricing hardwoods and exotics since at least 1981. I've built museum-quality display cases with exotic hardwood, if Honduran mahogany counts as such.

Oak is not cheap anymore, nor is any veneer, unless it is seconds. That is what I meant.
If a guy who's never done any woodworking before wants to spend more on rosewood veneer than the value of his speakers, knock yourself out.

rengnath

Ill be talking to the friend whos a woodworker to see what he says this weekend. Ill see how he feels about veneering them and a price. Ill keep everyone updated. Thanks for all your input everyone.

rengnath

ben62670 wrote: »

I would still veneer them so you have a nice clean surface. Trying to paint them over the glue on the cabs would be impossible. You would have to make sure you removed all the glue. That would not be easy. I have some Mahogany veneer here if you need some.

Ok, thanks Ben. Ill see what is available here and Ill PM you if Im not happy with what I find locally.

LessisNevermore

MDF soaks up paint like a sponge, you'll need to prime the heck out of them. Piano black will show any and every flaw in the surface. 90% of the quality of that finish is in the prep work, well before the color goes down.

There may be low spots, which will need to be filled. The key is to get the surface DEAD flat, anything less ruins the effect. The cabinets should be decently flat already, but sight down the sides- there may be low spots where the internal bracing is attached to the sidewalls.

Primer is what will fill in all but the severe imperfections. You'll want to shoot multiple thin coats, let them dry, and sand lightly (400 grit is fine) with a long sanding block in between. Don't worry if you sand through the first couple coats, the primer should remain in the low spots. You want that.

You are looking at possibly shooting up to 10 coats of primer to level out the surface. Don't shortcut this part, yes it's a lot of work, but your efforts will be rewarded.

The color coats will need the same kind of attention, but using a finer grit. (800 or so) After you have 5-10 good light coats, you'll want to start water-sanding. (Make sure paint is dried completely, if it's soft, you'll know by the feel-stop) Wet sand starting at 1000 grit and work up to 2000. You don't have to use every grit in between, you can jump 1 or 2 and be ok. When changing grits, change the direction of your strokes by 90 degrees, or the fine grooves from rougher grits can be made deeper. You want to eliminate the visible grooves. They will show up if you don't.

The low spots will reveal as small shiny spots. Keep block sanding (wet) until those are gone. After your final coat of color is dry, wet sand it from 1500 to 2000 again. It should have a dull sheen to it. Now you need a random orbit polisher (Auto Zone, Harbor Freight etc.), and a couple quality non-scratch buffing pads, a package of applicator pads, and automotive buffing compound. Apply the buffing compound by hand, circular motion, light pressure. Use a cloth diaper to wipe it off completely, then use a car polish and the polisher. Wax optional, but will resist finger prints and scuffs.


Sorry to write a manual here, but now you know why piano black finishes are so expensive. If you decide to go with a veneer instead, use the same process, substituting a high-solids sanding sealer (clear) for primer and clear lacquer for the color. All steps are the same. There are other ways to do it, I'm sure the cabinet maker you know likely has a different technique, but this way works for me. I don't have an example with black, but here's the finished product in clear.

rengnath

LessisNevermore wrote: »

MDF soaks up paint like a sponge, you'll need to prime the heck out of them. Piano black will show any and every flaw in the surface. 90% of the quality of that finish is in the prep work, well before the color goes down.

There may be low spots, which will need to be filled. The key is to get the surface DEAD flat, anything less ruins the effect. The cabinets should be decently flat already, but sight down the sides- there may be low spots where the internal bracing is attached to the sidewalls.

Primer is what will fill in all but the severe imperfections. You'll want to shoot multiple thin coats, let them dry, and sand lightly (400 grit is fine) with a long sanding block in between. Don't worry if you sand through the first couple coats, the primer should remain in the low spots. You want that.

You are looking at possibly shooting up to 10 coats of primer to level out the surface. Don't shortcut this part, yes it's a lot of work, but your efforts will be rewarded.

The color coats will need the same kind of attention, but using a finer grit. (800 or so) After you have 5-10 good light coats, you'll want to start water-sanding. (Make sure paint is dried completely, if it's soft, you'll know by the feel-stop) Wet sand starting at 1000 grit and work up to 2000. You don't have to use every grit in between, you can jump 1 or 2 and be ok. When changing grits, change the direction of your strokes by 90 degrees, or the fine grooves from rougher grits can be made deeper. You want to eliminate the visible grooves. They will show up if you don't.

The low spots will reveal as small shiny spots. Keep block sanding (wet) until those are gone. After your final coat of color is dry, wet sand it from 1500 to 2000 again. It should have a dull sheen to it. Now you need a random orbit polisher (Auto Zone, Harbor Freight etc.), and a couple quality non-scratch buffing pads, a package of applicator pads, and automotive buffing compound. Apply the buffing compound by hand, circular motion, light pressure. Use a cloth diaper to wipe it off completely, then use a car polish and the polisher. Wax optional, but will resist finger prints and scuffs.


Sorry to write a manual here, but now you know why piano black finishes are so expensive. If you decide to go with a veneer instead, use the same process, substituting a high-solids sanding sealer (clear) for primer and clear lacquer for the color. All steps are the same. There are other ways to do it, I'm sure the cabinet maker you know likely has a different technique, but this way works for me. I don't have an example with black, but here's the finished product in clear.

Wow, I appreciate this so much. Thankyou! I am really thinking about still doing the piano black, it is just so eye catching. Do I use a clear coat at all when doing this type of finish, or is it not necessary? And also, what is a good quality brand of spray paint and primer?

LessisNevermore

rengnath wrote: »

Wow, I appreciate this so much. Thankyou! I am really thinking about still doing the piano black, it is just so eye catching. Do I use a clear coat at all when doing this type of finish, or is it not necessary? And also, what is a good quality brand of spray paint and primer?

You're welcome.
As was mentioned, getting all the glue off is going to be a bear. You might be better off veneering, then doing the black over that.

Old-school piano black is hand polished-no clear. If you want more visual depth, use clear.

Temperature and humidity will affect your drying times, so keep that in mind. This will take a long time to do right, unless you have access to pro facilities.

I prefer to use lacquer, though urethane is more durable, also more expensive. I would do a clear coat, just for the added protection.

No brand preference, just a quality automotive paint, but I've seen some amazing work done with spray cans, believe it or not.....

If you do it, make sure to document with pictures, you may be able to help or inspire other Polkies.

F1nut

It takes a lot of time, money and sweat to do a real high gloss black. It's not exactly the job for someone with no experience. However, if you're bent on doing it you can use Bondo for the base prep to speed up the process.

strider

In addition to the invaluable advice of LessisNevermore and F1, here's an informative "how to" post from diyaudio regarding gloss finishes. As they've both said, it's a helluva lot of work. If you can get results like the OP of the diyaudio post and the drum in the above post, it's worth it.

Personally, when I tried, I gave up at a point where my level of satisfaction with my results was just being overtaken by my impatience and frustration. Looking back at my process, the application method was the biggest issue. Without some type of spray equipment, it becomes extremely tedious and time consuming to sand the various coats down to a mirror smooth surace. My speakers look good, I'm happy, but they're nowhere near as good looking as they could have been.

Next time........

rengnath

The part I worry about the most is the beveled edge around the front of the speaker. I dont think the piano black will work because it is going to be nearly impossible for me to get that edge sanded to a mirror finish inbetween coats of paint/primer without sanding to deep. I can picture it now; getting the final coat of paint on and doing the final sanding, and slip accidently going over the corner of the speaker with the sand paper and exposing the primer or mdf. Maybe veneer is the way to go. Plus, keeping piano black free of dust and scratches is going to be a pain.

zingo

I've often thought about removing the vinyl on my CRS+ and replace it with veneer, but those speakers have that front lip that would be a problem.

rengnath

zingo wrote: »

I've often thought about removing the vinyl on my CRS+ and replace it with veneer, but those speakers have that front lip that would be a problem.

I just wish all of the speakers wouldve just came with veneer from the factory, they could atleast be refinished then. It probably wouldve made them a little more expensive, but more desirable.

rengnath

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong...but weren't there some Monitor series speakers that had real wood veneer?

Does anyone know if this is true for any of the monitor series speakers?