extra power to Rti A5's from Onkyo?

twanto

I ordered some Rti A5's. While auditioning them, I noticed the bass came out more with a higher powered receiver/amp (onkyo sr806 vs. teh sr606). I intend on using the sr606 which is 90 watts RMS because I don't need all the advanced features (and price) of the 806. I was wondering if I "bi-amp" the speakers will that provide additional wattage to drive the speakers with the sr606, or is the only way to get more power to use an additional amp or a more expensive receiver with more powerful built-in amp (such as the sr806)? I really don't know much about this speaker stuff but I want to make sure I get it right.

leroyjr1

Welcome to the forum. I would get atleast the Onkyo 706 because it has pre-outs so later you can hook an external amp if ever needed. Good choice, the RTI A5's are great speakers.

twanto

Well I do not foresee the need for preamp outs if the unit I get powers the fronts well enough. So will bi-amping them produce the same effect as using a higher powered receiver/amp?

leroyjr1

twanto wrote: »

Well I do not foresee the need for preamp outs if the unit I get powers the fronts well enough. So will bi-amping them produce the same effect as using a higher powered receiver/amp?

Take into consideration that most receivers power rating are over rated. That Onkyo 606 (90 watts) is probably more like 40 watts while an external amp 100 watts is putting out clean high power current.

twanto

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Take into consideration that most receivers power rating are over rated. That Onkyo 606 (90 watts) is probably more like 40 watts while an external amp 100 watts is putting out clean high power current.

I've read elsewhere that the onkyo was tested at around 80 watts for 5 channels by some audio magazine.

I appreciate the responses, but I would really like to know the answer to my original question. Again, I'm new to this stuff- will bi-amping increase my power and have a similar effect as adding more power through an amp? What I have observed is more power from the 806 gives better base. Should I expect this effect if I bi-amp with the 606?

Thanks.

comfortablycurt

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Take into consideration that most receivers power rating are over rated. That Onkyo 606 (90 watts) is probably more like 40 watts while an external amp 100 watts is putting out clean high power current.

From what I've read Onkyo is actually fairly honest with their power ratings. While the 606 isn't putting out the 90 watts it advertises, it is actually putting out like 70-75 real world watts per channel with all channels driven.

That being said though, the Bi-amping feature of the 606 isn't going to achieve the same affects as an external amp will. You aren't really bi-amping them, but bi-wiring them with that connection. It is still driving them with more power, but it's still coming from the same amplifier. It will make a difference in sound quality, but it's not like you're going to be multiplying the 90 watts by two to get 180 watts per channel or anything. You'd probably still be driving them with about the same wattage, maybe a little bit more, but not enough to make a huge difference.

I bought an Onkyo 606 a while back, and while it is a GREAT receiver, I kind of regret not getting the 706 or 806, and plan to upgrade to one of those two in the near future. The only way to really drive your speakers with more power would be to use an external amp, which you wouldn't be able to do with the 606. That's why I'm upgrading...the 606 lacks any pre-outs, which you need to connect an external amp.

It's your decision, but I say go with a 706 or 806. Either one would be driving your speakers with more power, and they offer the flexibility of hooking up an amp if you decide to go that route eventually.

leroyjr1

comfortablycurt wrote: »

From what I've read Onkyo is actually fairly honest with their power ratings. While the 606 isn't putting out the 90 watts it advertises, it is actually putting out like 70-75 real world watts per channel with all channels driven.

That being said though, the Bi-amping feature of the 606 isn't going to achieve the same affects as an external amp will. You aren't really bi-amping them, but bi-wiring them with that connection. It is still driving them with more power, but it's still coming from the same amplifier. It will make a difference in sound quality, but it's not like you're going to be multiplying the 90 watts by two to get 180 watts per channel or anything. You'd probably still be driving them with about the same wattage, maybe a little bit more, but not enough to make a huge difference.

I bought an Onkyo 606 a while back, and while it is a GREAT receiver, I kind of regret not getting the 706 or 806, and plan to upgrade to one of those two in the near future. The only way to really drive your speakers with more power would be to use an external amp, which you wouldn't be able to do with the 606. That's why I'm upgrading...the 606 lacks any pre-outs, which you need to connect an external amp.

It's your decision, but I say go with a 706 or 806. Either one would be driving your speakers with more power, and they offer the flexibility of hooking up an amp if you decide to go that route eventually.

IMO That 606 is not putting out 75watts.

manman

has anyone who has that receiver tested it to find out? It shouldn't really be a matter of opinion, but fact. Otherwise it's really just guessing.

Anyway, I have the A5's with a 806 which is rated at 130 wpc, but even with that I think the A5s need a good sub for sufficient bass (I use them mostly for HT and not so much music though). If I was looking for bass without a sub, I would have gone with the A7s or 12s.
I'm still thinking of getting an external amp though, because I heard from some people that you can get more clear and defined sound at lower volumes, which is what I'm looking for. I've got a 5.1 setup with the a5's as mains, csi a6 center, and JBL lx22 monitors for surrounds, and with the onkyo they sound a bit muddled at lower volume. Moving up from the csi3 to A6 for the center helped, but it could be better.

comfortablycurt

leroyjr1 wrote: »

IMO That 606 is not putting out 75watts.

You're right actually. I was just going by something that someone had told me on here. I looked it up and it appears they were wrong.

122 watts per channel with just the front channels being run.

38 watts per channel 7 channels driven.

I was wrong...now I stand corrected. At least I know now though.:D

Just gives me more reason to upgrade to an 806 with an external amp.

sandworms

bi-amping with your avr does not give you addl wattage. it is still the rms of any given channel feeding the seperate terminals of your speaker. do a search regarding this or ck the avs forum where the topic has been covered ad nauseum

twanto

sandworms wrote: »

bi-amping with your avr does not give you addl wattage. it is still the rms of any given channel feeding the seperate terminals of your speaker. do a search regarding this or ck the avs forum where the topic has been covered ad nauseum

So what do I need to do to power theses speakers well? Do I need to drop 2.5k on an external amp? Can someone clue me in.

Thanks.

cfrizz

Welcome Twanto.

Well in order to buy a separate amp, you would first need to get a receiver that has preouts to plug in a separate amp. That would mean you would have to get the Onkyo 706 or the 805-6 which do have the preouts needed.

You don't have to spend 2 grand on an amp. If you are willing to buy used you can get a bit more bang for your buck shopping Audiogon. Good bang for the buck new companies are Outlaw Audio, and Emotiva. Emo, has a sale on right now of their XPA series for 699!

I always recommend getting an amp with 200wpc@8ohms. This is more than enough to let just about any speaker operate to their full potential.

danz1906

twanto wrote: »

So what do I need to do to power theses speakers well? Do I need to drop 2.5k on an external amp? Can someone clue me in.

Thanks.

You can find a good used amp from $300(adcom) to $600 on Audiogon:)

comfortablycurt

http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

And unfortunately, it appears that the sale on them just ended too. They've been 700 for a while...now they're back to 800. It's a great deal either way though.

Drunkcaballo

I just recently purchased RTi-A7s and an Onkyo 706. I tried "bi-amping" (bi-wiring) them and noticed no real difference in sound...at least nothing to justify 60 cents/foot of speaker wire I ordered an Emotiva XPA-3 ($499) to hook up to them and my CSi-A6. Circuitcity has the 706 for 729. I even saw online a special on a silver 806 for the same price.

Even without the external amp the speakers sound amazing but Im looking forward to Thursday when the Emo shows up and I can hear them sing. Hope that helps your decision.

twanto

Drunkcaballo wrote: »

I just recently purchased RTi-A7s and an Onkyo 706. I tried "bi-amping" (bi-wiring) them and noticed no real difference in sound...at least nothing to justify 60 cents/foot of speaker wire I ordered an Emotiva XPA-3 ($499) to hook up to them and my CSi-A6. Circuitcity has the 706 for 729. I even saw online a special on a silver 806 for the same price.

Even without the external amp the speakers sound amazing but Im looking forward to Thursday when the Emo shows up and I can hear them sing. Hope that helps your decision.

From what I've read thus far, bi amping is not the same as bi wiring. So which did you actually do? In any case, please post back here to let us know the difference with your new amp when it arrives.

twanto

cfrizz wrote: »

Welcome Twanto.

Well in order to buy a separate amp, you would first need to get a receiver that has preouts to plug in a separate amp. That would mean you would have to get the Onkyo 706 or the 805-6 which do have the preouts needed.

Alright, I ordered the 806 cause it was only 80 bucks more than the 706. Quite a bit cheaper online than at Fry's.

Drunkcaballo

The Onkyo manual calls out the ability to "bi-amp" but it is actually bi-wiring. Thats why I put the quotes around "bi-amp". Ive read a lot of debate about whether or not it would do anything so I tried out the channel closest to my system to run the extra wire to and compared vs the far channel and couldnt hear the difference.

Ill post back by the end of the week when the Emo get here.

cfrizz

Cool. Nice going.:)

twanto wrote: »

Alright, I ordered the 806 cause it was only 80 bucks more than the 706. Quite a bit cheaper online than at Fry's.

arkaig1

Congrats on the 806, twanto. I did the same last month, following a similar path.

Curt, where did you find the stats? I'd like the same but for the Onkyo 806 (2.0, 2.1, 5.1, and 7.1). Or, barring that, are the 5.1 numbers available for the 606?

I'm also considering a little bit more punch for my 2.0 system, somehow. (PSW10 is still in box, on hold just now, due to aesthetic issues, sigh.)

Barry

wutadumsn23

Good call on the 806, I bought mine about 4 months ago and it has yet to dissapoint. Very good receiver for the price, IMHO one of the best.

Dune

I have a quick question. I have been auditioning a pair of tsi 300 speakers from CC and think they are "ok" but saw that Electronic Expo had a great deal on the rti a5 speakers so I got a pair. How much better would the a5's sound over the tsi 300 speakers? I also have the Onkyo 606 receiver and think it puts out a great sound. Are you guys talking about amps to get the most potential out of speakers or the best sound or both? Is an amp better for just music...because I think the 606 does awesome for True HD sound and just regular Dolby and DTS. What is the real reason for having an amp. I didn't even think I'd need one (kinda new to all this). Thanks for all replys.

silvrhand

Watch for shoponkyo.com specials, I got my SR806-S for $474 shipped.

- john

cfrizz

Welcome Dune. The answer to this question is BOTH! I saw a huge improvement in sound quality across the board when I added a Parasound 205wpc amp.

However, to take advantage of a separate amp, you have to have preouts to hook it up to the receiver. Your receiver does not have any. You would have to upgrade to the 706 to get them.

But since you think it sounds great, enjoy it.

Dune wrote: »

...Are you guys talking about amps to get the most potential out of speakers or the best sound or both? Is an amp better for just music...because I think the 606 does awesome for True HD sound and just regular Dolby and DTS. What is the real reason for having an amp. I didn't even think I'd need one (kinda new to all this). Thanks for all replys.

sandworms

twanto, good move getting the 806, unlike yours truelly who went with the 605 last year and ended up having to upgrade to the 805 just to get substantially improved sound. i also just ordered the emotiva xpa3 to try and improve my rti10's. so now you have the option to amp the a5's instead of trying to "bi wire" which i've heard many mixed reviews about the end result

Dune

Thanks for the welcome...so much more of a friendly/inviting atmosphere here than other places. NICE!

comfortablycurt

arkaig1 wrote: »

Congrats on the 806, twanto. I did the same last month, following a similar path.

Curt, where did you find the stats? I'd like the same but for the Onkyo 806 (2.0, 2.1, 5.1, and 7.1). Or, barring that, are the 5.1 numbers available for the 606?

I'm also considering a little bit more punch for my 2.0 system, somehow. (PSW10 is still in box, on hold just now, due to aesthetic issues, sigh.)

Barry

Here's a good write up on the 806 if you wanna check it out. Page 6 of it has the bench test stats. Two channel power output was shown to be 130 watts per channel. They didn't list the all channel driven power.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-and-receiver-reviews/ssps/onkyo-tx-sr806-thx-ultra2-plus-7.1-av-receiver.html


I couldn't find any information as far as the all channels driven rating though. Just google "real world power rating of Onkyo TX-SR806" or something of that nature...might be able to find it somewhere.

arkaig1

Thanks Curt. Page 3 off your link was a downer (re video) until I found post #66 on www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14740970 ... But page 6 off your link had the details. Also, HTForum puts the 606 at 122@2, 81@5, and 73@7 (but TechRadar also also has 38@7). I was thinking that 146@2x2+73@3 would be better use to the fronts than 81@5 (using HTForum numbers, or 76@2x2+38@3 would be better than say 50?@5, using AVSForum numbers + guessing). My A9s need at least 50. But bi-amping isn't wattage-additive, right?

I was also curious if the Onkyo 606/706/806, in 5-7 channel modes, might favor the fronts and/or center, as well. It turns out that both of these are in the Onkyo "BTL" feature, available only on the 906 (876? etc?). Oh well. If so, then once again, Onkyo single-amp "bi-amping" is only just for the "cleaner" signal argument. Whether that be from its bi-amping nature, albeit as two output wires within a single amp, or from its bi-wiring nature, or neither... as you like it!

My 806 setup is coming along fine, save one glitch (elsewhere, later, if I have a chance). Someday I'll get the power amp, but with 144w@2ch, that can probably wait until my system goes from stereo to surround. Thanks for the info! As to bi-amping? If I'm ever bored, I might try it, but not right now.

Barry