who's a race technical minded fanatic here?

doggie750

I need help on modding a car, it's a crappy 323i Y2K e46. Got a 5k to waste. :rolleyes:

engine to match would be the immaculate Audi rs4

people say....why not just sell then buy the one I like.......but this car is beautiful so I would love to keep it.
Moded with ASA SC/ I Intake/ Exhaust but still weak. Thinking of engine swap!

bigaudiofanatic

for 5 k you can install a turbo charger on her. Or you can start basic cold air intake www.aempower.com and a exhaust i prefer magnaflow and a set off headers.

MikeC78

Blow her. Anyone on the beemer forums done it? Re-pro computer, colder plugs, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, larger injectors, throttle body, MAF, Cam, Cat eliminated (spoof, not smog legal FYI). Just a few things to consider...

doggie750

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

for 5 k you can install a turbo charger on her. Or you can start basic cold air intake www.aempower.com and a exhaust i prefer magnaflow and a set off headers.

Got the ASA supercharge/ Intercool intake/ quads magnaflow already.:)

Super charge plus turbo charger combined compatible?

hmmmm::: HEADERS now you're talking:D

Sami

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/index.php

Sami

doggie750 wrote: »

Got the ASA supercharge/ Intercool intake/ quads magnaflow already.:)

There's not that much you can do to that engine anymore, other than to increase pressure to see where she blows up. At that point, engine swap will be cheaper in the long run.

Jstas

Buy the car you want. It will be cheaper in the long run.

But if you are going to insist on modding that one, I would first find a good tuner with a dyno. Not some monkey kid in a garage. Then I would look into getting a new set of cams and porting the head with a full exhaust system, header and all. I wouldn't worry about forced induction just yet, you'll have to do bottom end work and for a BMW, $5K ain't gonna cut it there.

If you want an engine swap, you'll be lucky to find the engine you want that can fit in the 323's engine bay for $5K. Probably another grand for installation and then another grand on top of that for tuning and set up.

Yeah, in the world of BMW's $5K is peanuts.

Take the $5K and save it or invest it and double it and then go buy what you want and be done with it.

concealer404

Ditch the supercharger. Get a turbocharger setup, and build the bottom end. If you piece together your own setup, you should have no problems making a TON of power for that $5k budget.

doggie750

concealer404 wrote: »

Ditch the supercharger. Get a turbocharger setup, and build the bottom end. If you piece together your own setup, you should have no problems making a TON of power for that $5k budget.

I was thinking the same way......TC is better than the SC.

Sami

You're still very limited by the motor in it. BMW's are not very tuner friendly.

Jstas

Sami wrote: »

You're still very limited by the motor in it. BMW's are not very tuner friendly.

Not very high compression friendly either.

Detonation is a fun word!

concealer404

Jstas wrote: »

Not very high compression friendly either.

Detonation is a fun word!

I'm not trying to start a pissing match here.... BUT:

I don't know a whole lot about the E46 3-series, but the E36/E30 3-series LOVE boost. You can make way more power than you'll ever need with a stock bottom end E36 325i/328i/M3. Anyone seen that article with the 1000+whp E36 M3?


But regardless, that's why i said to buy some forged pistons, rods, rod bolts, and go to town. Go for 9.0:1 or 9.5:1 compression, that area. The head will be fine as long as he doesn't try to rev to the moon and back again, and the engine will have enough guts to spool a turbo well capable of putting out 500whp.

Built bottom end, stock head w/ cam regrind, Haltech ECU, 800/1000cc injectors, bored fuel rail, better fuel pump, GT37/40R, fmic setup. I'm sure you could piece all that together for around $5k or less if you shop around, and if you get used FMIC from another stock car (i.e SRT4), or go to a used Holset turbo from a Cummins diesel, you'll have no problems staying under there.

Sami

Some rough estimates from the top of my head:

$600-800 for forged pistons (or is that a 4cyl?)
$400 for forged conrods
$800-1000 for Haltech
$600 for injectors
$500 for seals and gaskets
$2000-2500 for turbo + manifold, IC, fuel system etc
$500 for dyno and tuning time
$200-400 for cams

That's a *minimum* of $5k right there, and that's NOT including a trip and back to a machine shop for the block. The rest of the work, you better know how to do yourself or you'd be adding a few grand at least for someone to do it for you.

Jstas

I'm pretty sure the 2.5 is a 6 cylinder.

concealer404

Sami wrote: »

Some rough estimates from the top of my head:

$600-800 for forged pistons (or is that a 4cyl?)
$400 for forged conrods
$800-1000 for Haltech
$600 for injectors
$500 for seals and gaskets
$2000-2500 for turbo + manifold, IC, fuel system etc
$500 for dyno and tuning time
$200-400 for cams

That's a *minimum* of $5k right there, and that's NOT including a trip and back to a machine shop for the block. The rest of the work, you better know how to do yourself or you'd be adding a few grand at least for someone to do it for you.

Agreed, but again.... if he pieces it together over time, he'll get better deals, be able to substitute stuff from stock cars, so on and so forth. It really depends on what kind of power he's looking for.

Plus, i don't personally know how strong the bottom end is in that car anyways... I know in my personal build, if i want 500whp out of my 2.0 litre 4-banger, i don't NEED to get aftermarket rods, stock will be just fine. Just need pistons and rod bolts.

I would honestly say that $5000 is worst case scenario if he starts trolling the BMW forums.

Sami

concealer404 wrote: »

I would honestly say that $5000 is worst case scenario if he starts trolling the BMW forums.

But that's for parts only (even w/o conrods). Machine work on the block is something you can't do yourself so that's a mandatory cost as well. You can find some deals but it's still not going to be cheap.

20h of labour for taking the engine apart if you're using a pro to do it, 40h minimum of your own time if you do it yourself...

My engine is apart right now, I have some CP forged pistons coming in (hopefully they are at my door when I get home). Reg. price was ~$900, I got them for $650 (6 * 87mm pistons). Stock conrods would have been good enough, but if you build the bottom end do it right the first time...

concealer404

Sami wrote: »

But that's for parts only (even w/o conrods). Machine work on the block is something you can't do yourself so that's a mandatory cost as well. You can find some deals but it's still not going to be cheap.

20h of labour for taking the engine apart if you're using a pro to do it, 40h minimum of your own time if you do it yourself...

My engine is apart right now, I have some CP forged pistons coming in (hopefully they are at my door when I get home). Reg. price was ~$900, I got them for $650 (6 * 87mm pistons). Stock conrods would have been good enough, but if you build the bottom end do it right the first time...

Ooooo..... CP. What do you drive?

I'm assembling a built 3sgte to put in a 1992 Celica.

<EDIT>

I guess i should explain where i get my pricing logic from. I know stuff like bottom end work, cams, the Haltech, and seals aren't really all that negotiable. But in terms of the turbo setup, you can get a Holset HX35 for under $200 that won't need a rebuild, and they'll push a LOT of air. Injectors? Start trolling the Supra forums, i've seen 800ccs go for $300 and under. Intercooler and piping is only as expensive as what you buy. The SRT4 unit is just fine, and you can usually score those for $100 or less by people that have "Upgraded." Piping is only as expensive as piping is, and you'd probably have around $75 in couplers and clamps if you don't skimp on that, and i suggest you don't. Walbro fuel pumps can be had all day long for about $100. The manifold will be the most expensive part, and for that, i would honestly just get an Ebay special, and make sure the welds are ok, and then weld up a support to relieve the stress on it.

It'll all depend on his power levels expected and if he wants a show car, too. Me, i'm used to putting together B-series turbo hondas for under $4k including purchase price of car, and still putting down over 300whp in a 2000lb car. I like to do the cheap thing.

And as a confession, i've got over $5k in my personal build/swap.

Sami

concealer404 wrote: »

Ooooo..... CP. What do you drive?

Something wrong with CP's? I know Cosworths would have been the best options for my car (R32 GT-R) but at double the price, and I'm only looking to get around 600whp with the setup so it's not going to be a major issue.

As for the prices, at least get a turbo that spools up fast, otherwise you won't be happy driving that 2.5 litre when it takes a day to get to redline.

concealer404

Sami wrote: »

Something wrong with CP's? I know Cosworths would have been the best options for my car (R32 GT-R) but at double the price, and I'm only looking to get around 600whp with the setup so it's not going to be a major issue.

As for the prices, at least get a turbo that spools up fast, otherwise you won't be happy driving that 2.5 litre when it takes a day to get to redline.

Nope, i have CP pistons, too. Love 'em.

HX35 should spool decently on the 2.5litre. Last LSVtec i put one on hit full boost by 4k rpms, and that's only a 1.8litre.

doggie750

thank you much GUYS.........a lot of info here. I know the BMW are not tuner friendly but it's possible and it's a challenge. You dont see much out there with a 500hp+, my $5k investment is a start & may invest more down the road. I'll keep you posted.

SIMILAR proj: http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredvehicles/160_0705_bmw_323i/engine_swap.html