writers strike is getting me really po'd
Comments
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hearingimpared wrote: »Tony, you are one of a very few union members that I respect. It's not all the workers against the establishment with you, it's not force the employer to bend to the will of the union with you etc etc.
I think you should get involved in the hierarchy of unions, you could only do the whole business good.
Unlike the resident entitled socilist here you seem think about things fairly rather than falling for the propaganda put out.
Joe,I really thought about it.But the unions here are so crooked,I might end up next to Hoffa.They do good,sometimes too good,for the employees but on the other hand,we know they are skimming off pension dollars.I think my outlook comes from my dad,a union guy,no english,no skills,the union changed his life.One of the hardest working men I know or ever will.Greed can kill an industry and the millions around it,be it from unions or greedy owners.Have some morals and a sence of fairness in all that you do,thats all I'm saying.HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
There-in lies the problem Demi,greedy unions want to define it,but I would say let the industry decide.Take an average in a given geological area within that industry.Maybe tie it to the inflation rate somehow,see what owners think,and make a fair proposal,not a get as much as you can one.
See Tony, that happens in an open market. If you are an "average" employee for an area/filed/industry and are getting paid below average, you can:
a). Negotiate your own raise.
b). Quit and work for someone who pays the average.
To me, what is fair is if the employer is fairly informed of an employees abilities and an employee understands the type of work, risk, and expectations that come with a job and come to an agreement for pay. How is that not fair? Both agreed to it... Now if the employer said there was no travel and 40hr weeks and your out of town every week and working 80+ hours then that would unfair but you could quit or demand more money, just like it's unfair for an employee to lie on their resume where a company can can you.
Sounds good to me!
There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
And when the unions raise their member wages far above what non-union employees in the same industry might get, what happens to the prices of the goods or services being offered? They go up of course. Eventually you've got a company that is paying so much in labor that they can't help but charge more for their goods, and therefore are not as competitive with non-union companies.
Not only that, but what about the guys that are "forced" into a union, and forced to live by its decisions? My dad retired from the AF after 22 years, went to work for US Air, and the mechanics ended up going on strike twice in about 5 years or so. Each time he was out of work until the issue had been resolved. Was he happy with his pay? Yes. Did he want to go to work? Yes. Could he? No.....
And if everyone in these roles are really that skilled laborers, then they have the leverage that they need to influence their employer anyway. I don't think you can bring just anyone in off the street if your job is truly that difficult...Dad's job for instance. John Q. Public does not come off the street with his A&P license in hand and experience working on aircraft.
40 hour work week, weekends off, safe work conditions, all that was hashed out years ago. I don't see why 10-15% of our work force should still be a part of what is basically monopolized labor.
Anyway...2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
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You are spot on JD,BUT...like I said,what if there is nowhere else to go? What if a group of heavy hitters in your industry get together to fix things in their favor? Think again if you don't believe it happens.Seen it,been part of it,sickens me to no end.Again,unions do not belong in every aspect of the workplace,in all industry,it's just that mine is so full of scum,you have to.HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
Then you change industries... But you see, what you are talking about is a UNION of businesses. To me, if you are going to allow labor to form monopolies, then you must allow businesses to do the same or vice-versa. I just don't get the rational that it is ok for workers to combine arms against employers but not ok for a group of employers to do the same....There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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And when the unions raise their member wages far above what non-union employees in the same industry might get, what happens to the prices of the goods or services being offered? They go up of course. Eventually you've got a company that is paying so much in labor that they can't help but charge more for their goods, and therefore are not as competitive with non-union companies.
Not only that, but what about the guys that are "forced" into a union, and forced to live by its decisions? My dad retired from the AF after 22 years, went to work for US Air, and the mechanics ended up going on strike twice in about 5 years or so. Each time he was out of work until the issue had been resolved. Was he happy with his pay? Yes. Did he want to go to work? Yes. Could he? No.....
And if everyone in these roles are really that skilled laborers, then they have the leverage that they need to influence their employer anyway. I don't think you can bring just anyone in off the street if your job is truly that difficult...Dad's job for instance. John Q. Public does not come off the street with his A&P license in hand and experience working on aircraft.
40 hour work week, weekends off, safe work conditions, all that was hashed out years ago. I don't see why 10-15% of our work force should still be a part of what is basically monopolized labor.
Anyway...
Really? How did these guys get those skills? Yes,a union does bring in people off the street and teach them a skill,happens all the time.I don't advocate a stick-up in negotiating contracts and that is where unions fail in my opinion.The power to negotiate my friend,that is the underlayment for all unions,too bad some use it as a power grab.I think Ron quoted a union rep earlier in this thread as saying "we extract power,no one is going to just give it to you". Sounds like the old mafia rule to me.Also sounds like politicians these days.:)HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
Then you change industries... But you see, what you are talking about is a UNION of businesses. To me, if you are going to allow labor to form monopolies, then you must allow businesses to do the same or vice-versa. I just don't get the rational that it is ok for workers to combine arms against employers but not ok for a group of employers to do the same....
There are UNION of buisnesses,more so under the table,for obvious reasons.Look at the big 3 auto makers,on a more public stand,they are united.This is a common practice,just not brought out in the open or big brother will come have a talk with them.Area's that are dependant on one industry,like detroit,pittsburg,or that employee masses of people, is where you can find this practice.There is an underbelly to the way America does buisness,and it ain't pretty.Now,I hear people crying,the old have"s and have not battle.Workers want to make the same as owners or close to it.Not gonna happen.Unless you vote for some of the morons running who believe in a redistribution of wealth,no names be mentioned.Seems to me everyone is always fighting for power,is this as it should be? Is this normal buisness practice?If yes,the unions fit right in and noone should complain.Dog eat dog right? Question I ask is,whatever happened to doing the right thing?Yeah,down the tubes eh?Should there always be this friction between workers and employee's? Should big brother step in,knock out all unions,and set a standardized pay scale for all industry? Who knows,but it can't go on like this.If anybody has a better idea,throw it out.HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
Then you change industries... But you see, what you are talking about is a UNION of businesses. To me, if you are going to allow labor to form monopolies, then you must allow businesses to do the same or vice-versa. I just don't get the rational that it is ok for workers to combine arms against employers but not ok for a group of employers to do the same....
If you don't like the law, write your representative to have it changed. That is exactly what organized labor accomplished.
Of course, you could move to China. In China, it is illegal to gather in groups and talk freely - especially against the establishment. Lots of labor advocates in China are doing time in jail for doing exactly that right now. By the way, China is communist. -
Just as a side note,off topic as usual...the wife calls me,says she just heard a news story about last year haveing the most births in the past 45 years.Funny,in todays climate,financialy,economically,we are makeing babies at a record pace.The kicker,she tells me,is that 25% of the new births are.......mexican.Jeez...what a surprise.HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
Ha... the resident socialist telling someone to move to China. That's funny.
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It is a little ironic that people who hate unions complain that unions are socialist. But, the countries that actively practice socialism/communism (i.e. China) have outlawed labor unions.
Therefore, using a little reverse logic, we can sort-of say that those who would like to outlaw unions are advocating socialist policy. -
It's better to let people think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.Political Correctness'.........defined
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SO fu**ing true. The Energizer Bunny strikes again.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Really ? ... I thought countries like this had one union and the members were all those living there ...It is a little ironic that people who hate unions complain that unions are socialist. But, the countries that actively practice socialism/communism (i.e. China) have outlawed labor unions.
Therefore, using a little reverse logic, we can sort-of say that those who would like to outlaw unions are advocating socialist policy. -
Be careful... The Energizer Bunny is trademarked!
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Not for conversation.
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Yup, I'm out, thought he might have actually learned something significant. Back to ignore...There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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Thanks to all you guys for giving me some faith that we can still have a discussion around here without name calling or getting locked down.Maybe we learned somethings,maybe not,but some of us for the most part,can agree to disagree and move on.Makes me feel good about this place again.HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
Huh??? Tilted head on puppy dog ???
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Thanks to all you guys for giving me some faith that we can still have a discussion around here without name calling or getting locked down.Maybe we learned somethings,maybe not,but some of us for the most part,can agree to disagree and move on.Makes me feel good about this place again.
^^^ Agreed.
