Confused About SDA Cable For SRS 2's

ka7niq

I drove to pick up my new SRS 2's today.
The previous owner is a great guy.
If he did not live so9 far from me, I am sure we would be good friends.

He kept the big SRS's, and sold me the SRS 2's.
He did not have the cable.

What exactly does it do ?

I felt the drivers and they all seemed to be working, but maybe I was feeling the vibration from the working drivers on the non working ones ?

I was told that w/o the cable, only the stereo drivers work, and no SDA effect.

read-alot

ka7niq wrote: »

I drove to pick up my new SRS 2's today.
The previous owner is a great guy.
If he did not live so9 far from me, I am sure we would be good friends.

He kept the big SRS's, and sold me the SRS 2's.
He did not have the cable.

What exactly does it do ?

I felt the drivers and they all seemed to be working, but maybe I was feeling the vibration from the working drivers on the non working ones ?

I was told that w/o the cable, only the stereo drivers work, and no SDA effect.

What you were told is the truth.

danger boy

get an SDA cable.. it's easy to tell if they are blade/blade or pin/blade

if they are blade/blade just order one from polk. inexpensive. if they are the pin/blade then you'll have to make one yourself.. i hear they are pretty easy to make.

and if you have any SDA;s at all.. you need, not want.. you NEED the SDA cable.

ka7niq

read-alot wrote: »

What you were told is the truth.

Yeah, I see that after listening to them.
No biggie, I will get em working.

I listened anyway, and I can hear their potential.
Very Musical, powerful too.
In my room they must go out away from the back walls so I am sure to lose some bass.
But no big deal.
I have two 9.5 cu ft subs, one in each corner.
They look like Klipschorn bass bins, only sealed with a 15" long throw driver in a sealed box.
They ROCK, especially with bridged Ashly FET 500's, pushing them.
Bass is not a problem.

I can hear the peak in these SL 200 tweeters, or whatever they are called.'
they LOOK like an old Peerless Tweeter to me with a silver dome ?

I can also hear these NEED new caps.
I have had enough older speakers to know the sound of aging caps.
No big deal either, these are definitely keeper speakers.
They shall get my FULL attention.

The tonal balance, EXCEPT for that tweeter peak is how I like it, rich and musical with a powerful sound.

Imaging was not awful, even w/o the cables.

There is a LITTLE coloration compared to my B&W Matrix 801's, but it is not real objectionable.
Overall an impressive achievement IMHO.

Haven't even bi wired em yet either, though my set up is shotgun bi wire.
The connectors are spaced weird, so I just took my two banana plugs per wire side and doubled em up, and plugged in to the bottom plugs on the speakers.

The top bi wire terminals are jumperd.

I like them, a LOT !

I know I know, I haven't even heard them yet w/o the cables, but I like all else about them, and feel I can make them even better down the road.

Someone said there are better tweeters, anyone care to comment ?

ka7niq

danger boy wrote: »

get an SDA cable.. it's easy to tell if they are blade/blade or pin/blade

if they are blade/blade just order one from polk. inexpensive. if they are the pin/blade then you'll have to make one yourself.. i hear they are pretty easy to make.

and if you have any SDA;s at all.. you need, not want.. you NEED the SDA cable.

Yes, I can see that now.

They really aren't too "bad" even w/o the cables.
But I realize that the SDA is their reason for being.

I just HAD to listen to them, even w/o the cables.

danger boy

ka7niq wrote: »

I just HAD to listen to them, even w/o the cables.

absolutely listen to them even without the cable. they are impressive even without the cable. the cable makes them true SDA's

ka7niq

danger boy wrote: »

absolutely listen to them even without the cable. they are impressive even without the cable. the cable makes them true SDA's

I have the blade/pin connectors, meaning my SRS 2's are the second version.
I called Ken up at Polk, and he told me that a simple RCA cable will work.

In my SRS 2's, you only need one wire connecting the pin only of each speaker.
A quick trip to Radio Shack, and 6 bucks spent yielded a 12 foot single RCA cable.
Plugged it in to the pin of each speaker, and SDA time.
It is a different effect, to be sure.

It makes some stuff sound really weird, colors some other stuff a little too.
It does it's job in imaging to be sure.

I have really tried moving the speakers around, etc, etc.


These SL 2000 tweeters have GOT to go.
I was gonna buy 4 replacement tweeters from Polk, but Ken said they were OUT of them.
He said he would post when they were back in stock.

A trick we used to do to Peerless Tweeters back in the Speaker Lab Days when I lived in Seattle was to simply poke a small pin hole in the center of the dome.

I need to take the tweeters/mids out and the crossover and clean connections, etc, etc.

These SRS 2's need a little attention I think.

A BAD connection can effect sound more then one might think.

I was listening to ELO and Ozzie Osborne, and several other CD's.
Boy, when the SDA effect is working, stuff is coming out of the walls.
Most impressive!

I do hear a phasiness, colorations, and a change in the sound when the SDA cable is on.

Maybe I need to optimize them ?

heiney9

Do Not poke a hole in your sl2000 tweeters. :eek: There is fluid in there and it will run out and ruin the speaker. You DO NOT have peerless tweeters in those speakers.

The SDA's need to be atleast 6 ft (preferably more) apart from each other and absolutely no toe in. Try to set it up so you sit in an equallateral triangle. This will give the best possible results.

H9

heiney9

ka7niq wrote: »

I do hear a phasiness, colorations, and a change in the sound when the SDA cable is on.

Maybe I need to optimize them ?

Set up properly this should be almost non-existent. Many times it's the source material and the way it was recorded(especially pop and rock music)that causes some of the issues as well as worn x-over parts and less than optimal set-up. Together it can create some issues.

H9

BrettT1

Congrats on your new SDAs.

ka7niq

heiney9 wrote: »

Set up properly this should be almost non-existent. Many times it's the source material and the way it was recorded(especially pop and rock music)that causes some of the issues as well as worn x-over parts and less than optimal set-up. Together it can create some issues.

H9

yes, it could be the source material.
My kid was just listening to Godsmack and Linkin Park as I watched the football game.
Stuff was coming from all over.
The SDA sure works well for imaging.

I realize what worn caps can do, just reporting what I hear on some stuff.
Since they are not Peerless Tweeters, I will refrain from punching the hole, LOL

Wanna see what amp I am using to drive em ?


You would freak out, and it sounds EXCELLENT too, with about 400 watts into 8 ohms, even more into the SRS's.

Ran into it by accident,. it is cheap too.
Everyone should have one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200149326305&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:US:1123

I bought two of em, and use them on my B&W Matrix 801's in a bi amp arrangement.

I use one amp to drive each 801, the left channel drives the woofer, the right channel drives the mids.
The level controls on the amp allows me to adjust the level between the bass/mids/highs, to get it just right.

I will do the same on the SRS 2's, one of these great sounding bad boys on EACH SRS 2.

I printed out the crossover schematic for the version of the SRS 2's I have, and the original.

The newer series ones that I own have a much more complex crossover then the originals.

I would think bi amping or at least bi wiring will really make a better sound.

The 4 bass/midrange drivers gotta have a lot of back EMF.

Bi amping/bi wiring is designed to keep this out of the tweeter path.

BTW, I have several pairs of high end speakers besides the SRS' 2's.

I own Polk RT 2000P's, B&W Matrix 801's, Big Von Schweikert's, VMPS RM 40's, Yamaha NS 200 M's, JBL L 7's Sansui SP 5500's, Vintage Pioneers, and several others.

I recently sold my Magnepans and my Horns, and I was TRYING to 'downsize' but there is always room for an SRS 2

ka7niq

BrettT1 wrote: »

Congrats on your new SDAs.

Thank You !
I LOVE em.
I can see them easily becoming my favorite speakers too.
BTW, I JUST bi wired em.
One of my best friends mono amps took a ****, so I loaned him one of the amps I am using.
I own two.
He also has RM 40's.
The amp I let him use is not QUITE as good as his 3000.00 a pair Audire Monoblocks, but he needed an amp to use.
He also has a big Sunfire.
He is using the Sunfire Load Invariant amp on the woofers of his set up, and one of my amps on top of the VMPS RM 40's.

As SOON as his Audire Monoblocks gets repaired, I plan to use the amp I lent him and my other identical amp to Bi Amp the SRS 2's!

That should light em up

BTW, I mentioned I just bi wired them.

My speaker cable is a true shotgun bi wire cable.

I am using TWO identical lengths of Radio Shack Flat wire.
Albert Von Schweikert turned me on to this excellent, low cost wire.

It sounds great!

I have banana plugs on the ends.
When I got the SRS 2's, the jumpers were in place, and I was Lazy.
I wanted to listen to my new toys. so I just used plugged both wires into one terminal of the SRS 2's.

My banana plugs are also hollow at the rear, so you can plug one banana into the other.

When I bi wired the SRS 2's i heard a BIG difference.

IMHO, from what I hear, these speakers NEED to be at least bi wired.

I have little doubt that TWO amps, one on each speaker, will make an even better sound too.

I LIKE to place the individual amps as CLOSE to the speaker as possible.
This allows the use of as short a speaker cable as possible, and allows the amp to exert greater control of the drivers.

I run long interconnect to my amps from my preamp.

This week, I plan to go into the SRS 2 speakers, and clean up and tighten all connections.

I have even been know to re solder stuff too, LOL

But I will most likely re capacitor/resistor these with Mills resistors, and Clarity Caps from Madisound.

The Clarity Caps are excellent sounding, warm and rich, and affordable too.

Bi wiring really did make a difference.

I was listening to the German Techno/Rock group Real McCoy.

On the song "Run Away" by them, the bi wired SRS 2's put the synthesizer clear into and outside the side walls !

Non bi wired did not make it outside the walls as far as image.

Detail is greatly enhanced by bi wire, it ALMOST makes the SL 2000 tweeters "acceptable".

I shall reserve ultimate judgement on these until they get connectors cleaned, and new caps/resistors, and that protection whatchamicallit thing replaced OR bypassed.

These tweeters, at THIS moment, sound sluggish and a little veiled, but it may very well be not their fault.

Aging caps/resistors and bad connections can hamper even the best of tweeters.

F1nut

On the song "Run Away" by them, the bi wired SRS 2's put the synthesizer clear into and outside the side walls !

You don't have them set up correctly and/or your room needs treatment.

danger boy

that is odd. do you have the left and right speakers in the correct position.. left on left side, right on right?

i can kind of side with you though.. my SRS's, used to place some sounds so far to the sides, that they appeared to me to be in the next room. :eek:
Odd i know.. but the sound was that far to the left and right of the sides of the SRS"s, that without any walls on the sides.. it would do that.

check with Woofiepaws who bought them from me if that is correct.

ka7niq

F1nut wrote: »

You don't have them set up correctly and/or your room needs treatment.

Possibly right on both counts ?

I have a wide room, they are out 3 to 4 feet from back wall, and 3 to 4 feet from side walls, maybe more away from side wall on right side.

I will play with placement soon.

ka7niq

danger boy wrote: »

that is odd. do you have the left and right speakers in the correct position.. left on left side, right on right?

i can kind of side with you though.. my SRS's, used to place some sounds so far to the sides, that they appeared to me to be in the next room. :eek:
Odd i know.. but the sound was that far to the left and right of the sides of the SRS"s, that without any walls on the sides.. it would do that.

check with Woofiepaws who bought them from me if that is correct.

Yes, left is left, and right is right.
I have a very wide room, they are well away from side walls, maybe I am getting full SDA effect on some recordings ?

I like the effect, but I can still hear phasey sounds on some vocals.

My SDA SRS 2's are letter models I was told by ken at Polk.

I looked at both SRS 2 crossovers, and the later series are different.

Mine appear to have the progressive line source that turns into a point source.

You can see the difference in the two crossover schematics.

Perhaps the caps have changed value enough in 20 some years to alter the line source to point source progression ?

F1nut

To start with, you have them too far out from the back wall. Try 5 or 6 inches out and 6 to 8 feet apart with NO toe in. You should sit at the top of an equilateral triangle.

heiney9

Also just to throw this out there you CAN NOT use non-common ground amps with that generation SDA. Meaning if you are using mono blocks you will damage the amp and the speakers.

You may already be aware of this and it may not apply to you at this time. The later generation SDA's allowed you to use a specially modified interconnect cable with a built in isolation transformer which allowed use of non-common ground design amplifiers. Almost all mono-blocks whether stereo units brigded or regular mono-block's are non-common ground.

FYI

H9

heiney9

One last thing like I mentioned before your music and the way it's recorded has a lot to do with the SDA content. Not knocking your music at all because I listen to a very wide variety of music. I have 1C's and especially on electronic type music from Art of Noise, Depeche Mode, Cabaret Voltaire, Yazoo, Yello, etc. I get some really funky phasing and soundstage issues. It's just the way the music is presented and mixed. When I listen to Jazz or old style Blues or female vocal they sound fantastic and I get less of some of the main issues you have described. Although I suspect you still need to tweak listening position and do the upgrades you mention. Even with the above music I don't hear things in the other room or have severe phasing issues, etc.

So far you seem to be listening to a lot of the more popular style music, dance music, etc. and these recordings leave a lot to be desired sometimes as far as mixing and recording quality. Try listening to Madonna's Ray of Light on SDA's.....talk about a trip .

ka7niq

F1nut wrote: »

To start with, you have them too far out from the back wall. Try 5 or 6 inches out and 6 to 8 feet apart with NO toe in. You should sit at the top of an equilateral triangle.

That is not possible, at this time, the 5 or 6 inches out from back wall arrangement.

I do have a little toe in right now, I will correct it.
I have the speakers out 3 to 4 feet from back wall, firing straight ahead I thought.
But there is a LITTLE toe in.
I will get out a tape meassure to be sure no toe in is occuring.

ka7niq

heiney9 wrote: »

One last thing like I mentioned before your music and the way it's recorded has a lot to do with the SDA content. Not knocking your music at all because I listen to a very wide variety of music. I have 1C's and especially on electronic type music from Art of Noise, Depeche Mode, Cabaret Voltaire, Yazoo, Yello, etc. I get some really funky phasing and soundstage issues. It's just the way the music is presented and mixed. When I listen to Jazz or old style Blues or female vocal they sound fantastic and I get less of some of the main issues you have described. Although I suspect you still need to tweak listening position and do the upgrades you mention. Even with the above music I don't hear things in the other room or have severe phasing issues, etc.

So far you seem to be listening to a lot of the more popular style music, dance music, etc. and these recordings leave a lot to be desired sometimes as far as mixing and recording quality. Try listening to Madonna's Ray of Light on SDA's.....talk about a trip .

I did have a little toe in, maybe that is what was doing it ?

woofiepaws

My listening room for the SRS's is 24' wide and open to the dining room on one side. On some recordings I can hear things a bit behind me and in the other room on the open side.

Joe08867

Is there a reason you have them so far from the wall in the rear. That would definately weaken the bass output although you said you have subs.

It would also play with the soundstage they produce. There will be limited reflected sound. Of course this may not be an issue once you connect the SDA cable. I am confused do you have a cable or not. If you do not have a cable you are not getting the SDA effect.

Like Heiney9 said it is very dependant upon the recording itself. Although he is correct on the Madonna album.

ka7niq

Joe08867 wrote: »

Is there a reason you have them so far from the wall in the rear. That would definately weaken the bass output although you said you have subs.

It would also play with the soundstage they produce. There will be limited reflected sound. Of course this may not be an issue once you connect the SDA cable. I am confused do you have a cable or not. If you do not have a cable you are not getting the SDA effect.

Like Heiney9 said it is very dependant upon the recording itself. Although he is correct on the Madonna album.

Well, I have a 52 inch widescreen rear projection TV.
I want to get them out front of the TV.

Most speakers will not develop depth of stereo image unless out a bit from the wall.

Rear wall reflections kill depth of stereo image.

Ken from Polk cust service said it was ok to run em like this, at a loss of some bass.

I bought a cable for them, it was easy!
Mine are the pin/blade ones, and only require an RCA pin in the pin ends only.
SDA is working.

F1nut

As I suggested to you early on, get the SDA owners manual as it will explain proper set up. SDA's are not like other speakers and require an entirely different set up. For example, they work best when close to the back wall.

ka7niq

F1nut wrote: »

As I suggested to you early on, get the SDA owners manual as it will explain proper set up. SDA's are not like other speakers and require an entirely different set up. For example, they work best when close to the back wall.

I can place them back there eventually.
Remember, I have SEVERAL pairs of speakers.
My big VMPS RM 40's are pushed back against the wall, at the moment.
And, I PLAN on buying a big wall mount TV Plasma, etc.

I have the owners manual, and see the set up instructions.

Just no way to follow them at this time.
TOO many speakers, too little room, LOL

I REALLY like the SRS 2's, keepers for sure.

MAYBE rear wall reflections WERE factored into the deign ?

MOST speakers do not like being up against a rear wall.

Image depth suffers, but bass increases.

Have you ever tried pulling you SDA's out from a wall ?

What ones do you have ?

Pepper Lewis

k97niq-

Could you specify for me the model or catalog number of the Radio Shack Flat Speaker wire?...I'd like to try it. Any other thoughts on it?

Thank you.

F1nut

Have you ever tried pulling you SDA's out from a wall ?

What ones do you have ?

Yes, but not as far out as you have them. They simply were not designed to be set up like that.

Highly modified 2.3TL's and 4.1TL's.

ka7niq

Pepper Lewis wrote: »

k97niq-

Could you specify for me the model or catalog number of the Radio Shack Flat Speaker wire?...I'd like to try it. Any other thoughts on it?

Thank you.

Sorry for late reply, was out of town.
It is 14 gauge flat wire, comes on a 50 foot spool.
Think it is the only flat wire they have.
It sounds real good, smooth and warm with decent bass.

I thought some 10 gauge stuff was a little better on bass, but overall I like it.

ka7niq

F1nut wrote: »

Yes, but not as far out as you have them. They simply were not designed to be set up like that.

Highly modified 2.3TL's and 4.1TL's.

Yes, you may be correct.
The owners manual clearly states they should be slightly out from back wall.
I can not run them this way until I get a wall mounted TV.

ka7niq

Lasareath wrote: »

I had my 1.2TL's around 14" from the rear walls because I had a HTPC behind the right one.

But then I moved the HTPC into the next room and I was able to get them to 3.5" away from the rear wall but it sounded very boomy.

Right now they are around 8" from the read wall and they sound great!

Generally, the further the distance from the back wall, the less bass reinforcement, but the more depth in the stereo image.

In a conventional speaker, we try and strike a balance between this.