My Big Effin' Cables!!

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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    PolkThug wrote: »
    You can look at as narrow or wide as you want. You can see single "sounds" or multiple at the same time.


    Hey PT, I'm going to try and talk these fellas here at work into trying this software for an analog sensor we are testing. ;) (30 to 190 hz is all we really care about but are having trouble getting a feel for how its operating) What is the one you are using called?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    Here are pics of the same big **** power cord, but this time it's on my subwoofer amp.

    For a size comparison, the speaker cables in the pics are AQ Bedrocks, which are pretty hefty themselves.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    What exactly are you trying to do? ie subwoofer placement, best x-over point, replicating stradivarius sound etc
    Never Forget
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    The only software tool I've actually paid for is TrueRTA Level 4. You can use trial periods for other stuff.

    This one is fun to play with: Spectrogram
    Never Forget
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2007
    "For those who don't know, don't know they don't know, and you don't know."

    Just thought I'd quote this just for the pure irony! :p (on several levels)

    Who won the over under on this?
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    jdhdiggs wrote: »
    Just thought I'd quote this just for the pure irony! :p (on several levels)

    Who won the over under on this?

    Well I didn't know there was as much going on with RTA programs as there is. (last ones I saw were fairly simple). What I do know that I don't know is if there is any truly useful input to be gained from them. Differences in the way cables sound for example, well I still can't imagine gaining any useful input from a program unless all the hardware (adc, computer supply, connections etc) are up to or beyond our audio systems. Is that what you meant?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    madmax wrote: »
    What I do know that I don't know is if there is any truly useful input to be gained from them.

    They are just a tool to help out, especially if you are on the fence about a decision. Let's say you're not really sure if your system is more accurate with your sub crossed over at 60Hz or 80Hz. Now, you could take the time to sit down and listen to a few songs and A/B back and forth, or you could run two frequency sweeps and have the answer within a few seconds. Of course you could also ignore the RTA results if you prefer your brand of beauty over the truth.

    Measuring sound can coexist peacefully with your ears to confirm what you already know, or show you something new.
    Never Forget
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    Thanks!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited August 2007
    RTA's are an invaluable tool for tuning. In a car they are pretty much mandatory for getting the best sound. I cant afford an RTA so I use an SPL meter and 1/3 octave filtered pink noise for my tuning.

    A car is a horrifically hostile environment to good sound quality but a home can be pretty unfriendly as well. You could be getting all kinds of spikes or unnatural roll offs due to furniture, walls and so on. The best way to find these and work them out is with an RTA, preferably a 1/3 octave RTA.

    The downside is that you need a pretty extensive EQ to work out these issues a lot of times. Im using a processor that has 31 bands of EQ for each individual driver and Ive still got issues that I cant fix. 630 and 1200 Hz for example.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    I used to have a 30 band RTA and several channels of 30 band eq's awhile back. The RTA programs PT mentioned seem to do a lot more analyzing.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited August 2007
    Yeah, there is a point where you can over analyze things. 31 bands of EQ is way more than enough for me to screw things up. :p
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    I could get the analyzer to show a straight line but it never sounded right that way. (in the house).
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2007
    Chuck, Mac, and PT: Kudo's on turning this into a civil learning discourse. Well done.

    MM: If you want I can check with my brother (runs his own recording studio) and get the names of the software and systems that they use that absolutely destroy some of the software shown in this thread based screen shots. IIRC the cost of the software alone was in the $25K + range per install but it did damn near everything. He showed me some of his single tracks/channel (one instrument) being around 10-15 GB/minute on the initial recordings and that's the level they do their mixing at. The sad part is, then they have to reduce the rez to fit on a CD and then make sure it "sounds good" in a boom box.

    On those initial high rez files, you can see damn near everything. He showed me the difference in each of his guitars playing the exact same note. Some of what you can do with those things is unreal. There is no reason why CD mixes should suck.

    And usually (to me anyway) a straight line frequency response sounds very bland and unengaging. Might be part of your in house trouble.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    jdhdiggs wrote: »
    And usually (to me anyway) a straight line frequency response sounds very bland and unengaging.

    Yep. Its because our human hearing tends to follow the Fletcher-Munson curve instead of the superior flat response that a mic is capable of.

    I've also thought that if you plotted your personal hearing curve, and made that your target baseline instead of a flat response, you'd have a perfectly accurate system but only to your ears. :)

    Fun with hearing:Fletcher-Munson
    Never Forget
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited August 2007
    Real Man Cables

    I'm now in a DIY project for making the ultimate speaker and line cord set.

    These babes will be sonic heaven. I also plan to cool them down with a special refrigerator loop during listening sessions to find the best temperature that produces the cleanest sound. No measurements will be used except my ears, they only tell the truth.
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  • SLOCOOKN
    SLOCOOKN Posts: 704
    edited August 2007
    bikezappa wrote: »
    Real Man Cables

    I'm now in a DIY project for making the ultimate speaker and line cord set.

    These babes will be sonic heaven. I also plan to cool them down with a special refrigerator loop during listening sessions to find the best temperature that produces the cleanest sound. No measurements will be used except my ears, they only tell the truth.

    Is that welding cable?
    :eek: From the bottom it looks like a steep incline, From the top another down hill slope of mine.:mad: But I know the equilibrium's there!:cool: .."Faith No More" :D
    Sony cx985v (for now)
    BBE 482i
    B&K AVP 1030
    Adcom GFA 555 mk 2
    AudioQuest Crystal 2 spk wire
    Nordost RCA
    SDA 3.1 tl RD0 tweets
    Belkin pf60
    Carver TFM 55x
    Signal Analog 2 RCA
    AudioQuestType 4
    VMPS Original Tall Boy (Mega Woofers soon)
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2007
    PolkThug wrote: »
    Yep. Its because our human hearing tends to follow the Fletcher-Munson curve instead of the superior flat response that a mic is capable of.

    I've also thought that if you plotted your personal hearing curve, and made that your target baseline instead of a flat response, you'd have a perfectly accurate system but only to your ears. :)

    Fun with hearing:Fletcher-Munson

    Might be interesting. I have a plot of my hearing response already. Only one issue, each ear is different and depending on the season, they drift (effin allergies!) But then, I'd hat putting an EQ in the system, I find it much easier to just change out amps... ;)
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited August 2007
    SLOCOOKN wrote: »
    Is that welding cable?

    Bigger. We use those cables to power a 2 megawatt heating element for a heat treating furnace.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    jdhdiggs wrote: »
    Might be interesting. I have a plot of my hearing response already. Only one issue, each ear is different and depending on the season, they drift (effin allergies!) But then, I'd hat putting an EQ in the system, I find it much easier to just change out amps... ;)

    You need one EQ per channel to match each ear. :)
    Never Forget
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited August 2007
    As a cable believer, I echo J-digg's sentiments...
    kudos to Pthuggy, Chuck, Mac and Jay for keeping this civil and very enlightening.

    No matter what your stance.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited August 2007
    madmax wrote: »
    I could get the analyzer to show a straight line but it never sounded right that way. (in the house).

    Yeah, flat doesnt sound best. Flat is good for test tones but not for listening.

    They have RTA competitions at events and there are several guys that have gotten a near flat line from 20-20KHz. Sounds like crap too. Ive gotten mine pretty close to flat but it sounds just like that, flat.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    zombie boy 2000 wrote: »
    As a cable believer, I echo J-digg's sentiments...
    kudos to Pthuggy, Chuck, Mac and Jay for keeping this civil.

    Remember guys, at the rumble tonight you can bring knives, chains and cables but no guns... ;)
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2007
    Flamethrower?
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2007
    jdhdiggs wrote: »
    Flamethrower?

    Always good to have a few...

    Edit: Oh, that didn't look right.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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