I'll be damned...power cords really do make a difference!

124

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    Apparently your reading comprehension is lacking. I am willing to do a DBT and post my results. If you re-read my post, all I need is a DB meter, as I don't have one.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    I am also willing, if you read my post to perform it on two separate systems.

    Why are you trying to force your opinion on everybody, and at the same time, hijack the hell out of this thread?

    I'll put my money where my mouth is. How 'bout you William? Care to make a little wager? I'm game.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    Apparently your reading comprehension is lacking. I am willing to do a DBT and post my results. If you re-read my post, all I need is a DB meter, as I don't have one.

    I'd say yours is lacking, as I never responded to that part of your post.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    I am also willing, if you read my post to perform it on two separate systems.

    Great, have at it, it doesn't require any special equipment.
    I'll put my money where my mouth is. How 'bout you William? Care to make a little wager? I'm game.

    Sure, but if you want a wager, you will have to come here, so I can witness the test.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    Well, are you going to RT1's polkfest? I'll be there and you can prove me wrong in front of all that attend. How 'bout that snookums?

    If not, where do you live? I'm in Charlotte NC and I am also going to be at Carverfest in the mountains of NC this year as well.

    LMK.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I'd say yours is lacking, as I never responded to that part of your post.
    Post #90, page three. You quoted me saying "I see no evidence that this gentleman is close minded, but I do see evidence of the Pot calling the kettle black."

    You were saying?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2007
    treitz3 wrote: »
    How 'bout that snookums?
    :eek: Oh my,someone is in a **** load of trouble now.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    I still don't see how you are going to tell which power cable is which in unfamiliar surroundings... Even so, this thread is a hoot. :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    Hey now, I'm not saying that I am super human and can tell the difference on all gear and all systems, I'm just relaying my experience. I can't believe that "belief" is part of the discussion. No placebo effect, no nothing, but what I have heard and continue to hear.

    I am not alone.:eek:
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited June 2007
    Midnite Mick wrote: »
    Why would you have to buy a PC? When you buy a piece of equipment it comes with one that is perfectly adequate. Only an idiot would spend extra money on something that they don't need nor makes any difference at all.

    Mike

    LOL...my computer was down for a bit. For those that have quoted my above statement see post #8. I was just following Phil's lead in the facetiality (sp?..or even a word?). Look at my sig....there is an after market cord in it and I don't feel that I am cheap with my system. I have played around with a few cords as my dealer makes absolutely outstanding PC's (that from what I hear have gotten even better as he experiments) and I had a couple of Black Sand Cable Silver References MKV's in my system for about 6 weeks.

    Anyway it was fun catching up:)

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Consonance cd120T
    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Usher CP 6311

    Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    On some systems the only thing you have is belief (if you are that type of person) but on others it can become night and day. On my present system I can change between 4 different power cables and the soundstage changes accordingly. BUT, I would be at a total loss trying to tell you which is which if I plugged them into another system. (assuming it displayed differences). :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    I can agree madmax. I only have this one cable. If I were to identify the silver version -vs- the copper version, I'd be at a loss.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Spacedeckman
    Spacedeckman Posts: 96
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I used to believe in cables, but was willing to submit to a DBT, and failed, and I have no trouble admitting it. He believes in cables, but is unwilling to submit to a DBT, or even remotely accept he could be wrong. How am I calling the kettle black?

    I've done many and heard many differences. Spent some time with a friend who was building his own wire. It was interesting actually. He had built 5 different "flavors" of interconnect, each sounded different in some way or another. Did another with digital cables later on, and many times at different dealers, sometimes as the "third party" to throw in my two cents. Also saw the Nordost "show" at CES a couple of years ago. That was really trick.

    Years ago, a dealer was showing me the then current line of a certain manufacturer's interconnects. He started at the low end, then went up asking me what I thought. On the third one, I started laughing, and he asked what was so funny. I told him that every step we took went downhill, inverse of the price. He had thought the same, and was using me for verification.

    Power Cords? Saw a real cool demo with an upper level Japanese AV receiver and a "special" PC. The difference was huge. All settings stayed the same. I used to be a PC non-believer myself, and before that a speaker wire non-believer, and before that an IC non-believer. Oh yeah, and a digital cable non-believer there too. Sorry, they make a difference. Whether it's worth the money is a different argument, and a really personal question...it's their money.

    Mark
    System:

    VPI Scout/Benz Ace
    Sutherland PH2000
    Arcam CD72
    Yamaha DVD-CX1 (primarily for CD..26 lbs, all BB D/A)
    Audioprism Mantissa w/Reference PS
    Parasound HCA750 (temporary)
    Audiovector M1 Signatures
    Kimber 4TC x 2
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2007
    Spacedeckman wrote: »
    I've done many and heard many differences. Spent some time with a friend who was building his own wire. It was interesting actually. He had built 5 different "flavors" of interconnect, each sounded different in some way or another. Did another with digital cables later on, and many times at different dealers, sometimes as the "third party" to throw in my two cents. Also saw the Nordost "show" at CES a couple of years ago. That was really trick.

    Years ago, a dealer was showing me the then current line of a certain manufacturer's interconnects. He started at the low end, then went up asking me what I thought. On the third one, I started laughing, and he asked what was so funny. I told him that every step we took went downhill, inverse of the price. He had thought the same, and was using me for verification.

    Power Cords? Saw a real cool demo with an upper level Japanese AV receiver and a "special" PC. The difference was huge. All settings stayed the same. I used to be a PC non-believer myself, and before that a speaker wire non-believer, and before that an IC non-believer. Oh yeah, and a digital cable non-believer there too. Sorry, they make a difference. Whether it's worth the money is a different argument, and a really personal question...it's their money.

    Mark


    Did you do a double blind test? Because according to William M2 your impression, experience, and hearing are fooling you into believing there are any difference's. A double blind test (not triple or quadruple, but double blind) is the ONLY method for debunking this horrific myth!! :eek: :eek: ;);) .

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    Laughing as I type. TXS for the chuckle heiney9!:D
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    Damn, I guess I'll be returning all my Nordost Valhalla IC's, PC's & speaker cables. I'll pick up some wire from Home Depot & pocket the savings. If none of them make a difference, why not. I kinda like the HD orange cord with the black stripe, cheap too & sounds like the Valhallas. I'll never get burnt again I tell ya!!!! :D
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    Post #90, page three. You quoted me saying "I see no evidence that this gentleman is close minded, but I do see evidence of the Pot calling the kettle black."

    You were saying?

    Right, I reponded to the part about "this gentleman", in other words, not you.

    I never claimed you were closed minded.

    No I won't be at any Polkfest, I take what little vacation time I have at the family's summer home. But it would be interesting if they did that at Polkfest, and kept results, It may end the debate once and for all...or not.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    A double blind test (not triple or quadruple, but double blind) is the ONLY method for debunking this horrific myth!!

    Can you point out where I said that? It is certainly not the only way, but it's a hell of a lot better than "I can hear it!".

    And I very well could be wrong, but it's odd that there is not one shred of evidence that supports cables making a difference except "I can hear it!".
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Can you point out where I said that? It is certainly not the only way, but it's a hell of a lot better than "I can hear it!".

    And I very well could be wrong, but it's odd that there is not one shred of evidence that supports cables making a difference except "I can hear it!".

    I was making light of this thread, lighten up. All I have to go on is your stating "I can't hear a difference", how is that any different than me stating I can hear a difference? Yeah, yeah I know the double blind test will solve the entire problem because we all hear the same. Keep in mind I never said your experience was wrong or invalid but you seem to constantly point out to me that you are correct about MY experience, because somehow I'm biased or my logic is flawed or my mind plays tricks on me.

    Your type (I'm guessing) wouldn't be satisfied if I had based my experiences on several double blind tests because I'm sure you'd find a flaw in my experience beacuse it doesn't parallel what you believe your experience to be.

    I'm am 100% greatful my system and my ears allow me to hear a difference, it's quite nice to be able to pair up good cables that sound great together.

    H9

    No where did I say I refused to do a double blind test I said "I didn't need to" I have nothing to prove to myself because I can hear a difference. Prove to me you didn't hear a difference in your dbt. Go ahead prove it to me.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    All I have to go on is your stating "I can't hear a difference", how is that any different than me stating I can hear a difference?

    It's quite bit different. I could give you links to where people have failed DBT/ABX or whatever. While this does not prove it 100%, it is some evidence that no difference is audible.

    I have never been able to find evidence of people hearing a difference, Maybe you know of some you could point me to.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    No I won't be at any Polkfest, I take what little vacation time I have at the family's summer home. But it would be interesting if they did that at Polkfest, and kept results, It may end the debate once and for all...or not.

    We are not here to do work or research for you. Get lost, or show up. End of story.:eek:
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    It's quite bit different. I could give you links to where people have failed DBT/ABX or whatever. While this does not prove it 100%, it is some evidence that no difference is audible.

    I have never been able to find evidence of people hearing a difference, Maybe you know of some you could point me to.

    Just read thru this thread, there's lots of evidence. Link all you want, why would I believe other people over my own ears? I'm not asking you to believe my POV, I'm asking you to admit some of us can actually hear a difference. I'm asking you to believe that your POV and experience isn't the one and only. I believe you couldn't tell a difference, why is it so hard for you to believe I can hear a difference?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I have never been able to find evidence of people hearing a difference, Maybe you know of some you could point me to.
    Me guy. I'm here for ya'.

    Bring it.

    Only requirement is that you scoop it up, put it all in garbage bags and dispose of it.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    Used to be amps were the thing in question. Amp A = amp B given the same wattage. Oh, we used to go on for hours... :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Polkitup2
    Polkitup2 Posts: 1,622
    edited June 2007
    Amps? They all sound the same.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2007
    madmax wrote: »
    Used to be amps were the thing in question. Amp A = amp B given the same wattage. Oh, we used to go on for hours... :)
    madmax
    I can imagine those being long exhausting threads.:D
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  • haimoc
    haimoc Posts: 1,031
    edited June 2007
    Yes, power cords really do make a difference. Power cords made people sound different.. much different.. :D
    -?¿-
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited June 2007
    Amps, right; or tubes; can you believe some people pay hundreds for a single tube, and they think they sound better??
    _________________________________________________
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    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • jflail2
    jflail2 Posts: 2,868
    edited June 2007
    Hijack:

    Treitz, where is the carverfest going to be held? I am (hopefully) moving back to the mtns of NC in the next couple of months, and would like to start hearing some of these higher end systems, etc...

    Carry on the battle.
    2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ

    2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ

    2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ


    "It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    HTrookie wrote: »
    Amps, right; or tubes; can you believe some people pay hundreds for a single tube, and they think they sound better??

    Some even say preamps make a difference... :eek:
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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