Lsi9's

cfrizz

Thank you very much Dane!

Do not think this is an attack on you Lush, since you are not the only one that does this.

This has been bugging me since last night when I saw his post, as well as another one where he said that this forum was turning BACK into a midfi forum.

Well here is a newsflash: This IS a midfi forum. Polk markets to the midfi crowd even though a good chunk of their products can be thought of & perform to hifi ends.

Lush finally nailed down for me a question that gets danced around & mislead.

The Quality vs Quantity question.

I always recommend a minimum of 200wpc for tower speakers & for ALL of the LSI line. Then someone like Lush or others will come in & declare the above quality lower wpc amp will do a far better job.

The one CRUCIAL detail that they leave out is the name of that so called "quality" amp.

Well Lush answered it last night with the names of Krell, & Ayre being tossed out.

Now that is all well & good, but the main reason why you "quality" people don't toss out those names is because you know full well that in a mostly
MIDFI forum like this, those amps are generally out of our price range whether new or used.!

I know that quite a few of you have gone on to hifi glory, which is just terrific. But if you can't or don't want to lower yourselves to recommend Midfi quality & priced electronics to go along with the midfi priced speakers of Polk's LSI series, than don't further confuse the issue by bringing up the standard "quality over quantity issue" without "FULL DISCLOSURE".

If you are not willing to put out the names & consequent prices you have to pay to get that "quality" Then I will do it for you, the next time that old line is posted!

The midfi products I recommend match perfectly with the midfi products that Polk sells & are attainable at reasonable prices.

There is a reason why Outlaw Audio is so successful & why all of their amps are 200wpc. It's because they know & I found out when I went up to that number that it is the best starting point to get the best out of ANY speaker!

jdhdiggs

It is interesting to see who in this forum still clings to the "more is better" philosophy and who doesn't. For those of you recommending massive overamplification for the LSi9's, why are you doing it? I've run the 9's on everything from 2W/channel to an amp with 500W + /channel. All of the amps were 2 Ohm stable as well. I can tell you one thing with the LSi's, you would be MUCH better off buying a better amp in the 30-50W range than something average in the 200W range. Personally, I would definately stay away from Outlaw, HK, and low end Adcom's. (Yes: I do have personal experience with all three brands on the LSi7's and 9's)

There are a lot of these amps out there for comparable cost to the midrange 200W/channel amp. I would say other than the parasound and the flagship amps from the brands that Cfrizz listed are all midlevel amps in my book. THe reason brands aren't listed all to often is there are literally dozens, possibly hundreds of brands that are better or different.

To say 200W/channel is a good starting point, but to say it's the answer is just wrong and uninformed.

Some questions to think about:
If you compared 2 amps at the same street price, one at 50W/channel the other at 400W/channel, which would probably sound better?
How many watts do you actually think you use in your speakers? (Hint: The only time I've seen and amp push more than 20W was at TPG2 and RuSsMaN nearly $hit himself- The watts recorded on the burst: 70)

Sami

I've driven 15's with low end amps, some of them definately not 2ohm stable. All got the job done but with different results in SQ. Of all the amps, low end and "high" end (I don't have money for Krell either), the one that sounded the best was not the one rated at most watts. The best of them was the heavieast of them by far but was on the lower end of power spectrum. The worst of them was definately a 500WPC Samson pro amp.

sickicw

Sami wrote:

I'd rather take something that goes from 100W@8 to 200W@4 than 200W@8 to 300W@4.

exactly. or better yet, something that goes 100W@8 to 200W@4 to 400W@2

ohskigod

lots of valid arguments here, but I think the LSi's in a home theater environment need power. WHen I gave my LSi's the power they needed in my theater, they rewarded me greatly.

I think a theater environment and a critical 2 channel listening environment are 2 different ballgames.

I have been meaning to take my 9's and try them on my Anthem amp 1 (40 watts tube power) but just havent done it. I would probably like the results for music, but to use that all around in a theater set up? I dont know man. Power and dynamics usually rule the day for movies and whatnot.

I went the high power route in my theater with the LSi's, and I mean it when I say I will not be upgrading speakers for a very long time. I have never been happier with my theater's performance.

cfrizz

Once again, you are missing the point. This is generally a midfi forum. You are asking people to check out a 50wpc amplifier of Krell, Ayer, Mcintosh variety that could cost more than the midfi speakers, receiver, & amp put together.

That doesn't make any sense either!

A brand new Krell 80wpc 2 chnl amp originally cost 3950.00.
A brand new Mcintosh 250wpc 2 chnl amp originally cost 4200.00.
A Jeff Rowland 350wpc amp originally cost 14,800.00.
A Mark Levinson 2 channel amp 400wpc originally cost 8000.00.

This was just a quick scan on Audiogon. I couldn't find an 50wpc amps, but considering the prices for the ones I listed about you get the idea.

You want to recommend that people get these "higher quality" amps fine. But be honest & upfront on how those same amps are going to cost more than their entire system put together.

Me, I'm going to recommend that they get MIDFI amps with more power that will make their speakers sing without bankrupting them!

heiney9

Both jdhiggs and Cfrizz are correct on the points they make. jdhiggs is speaking more from a stand point of outstanding quality (audiophile reference type stuff) where everything in the audio chain needs to be optimized for the best possible performance. There is a time and a place for these types of recommendations, not nec here in this thread.

Cfrizz's comments ring very very true with respect to the Lsi series (and in general). I just recently moved from a 30 watt reciever in my office rig to a 130 watt integrated. Very noticeable improvement even at lower levels on my Monitor 5b's. Lsi's crave high current power and it just so happens that the types of amps (midfi types) fit the bill and are affordable and will in many cases get you 85-90% there as far as sound quality goes. It's that extra 10% that costs the most and is the **** in this hobby. Some like to roll with what's popular others like to be out on the fringes.

H9

cfrizz

Thank you Heiney! If you were here I'd give you a kiss!:D

Lowell_M

cfrizz wrote:

Thank you Heiney! If you were here I'd give you a kiss!:D

Heiney Kisser :rolleyes:

cfrizz

Snort...WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!:eek:

a_mattison wrote:

Heiney Kisser :rolleyes:

heiney9

a_mattison wrote:

Heiney Kisser :rolleyes:

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:D !!!!!

Good one!

Thanks for sentiment Cfrizz but I wouldn't want some others to get jealous of our little encounter.

sickicw

yea, high end amps are unjustifiably expensive. That is why I am using car amps in my home theater. They are much cheaper and much more high current.

I would love to buy some krell amps, but I think they are a ripoff unless you have lots of money to blow away, which I don’t. In my opinion going from a receiver to a typical external amp is about as big of an upgrade as going from a typical external amp to the high end (ultra high current) amp such as a krell.

ND13

ohskigod wrote:

I have been meaning to take my 9's and try them on my Anthem amp 1 (40 watts tube power) but just havent done it. I would probably like the results for music, but to use that all around in a theater set up? I dont know man. Power and dynamics usually rule the day for movies and whatnot.

Do it. I did the exact same thing and was very pleased. I wish I didn't have to sell the 9s. Since I had to sell my PSound amp, I don't have any amp rated more than 100 wpc(@ 8 ohms).

LuSh

Giving wrong information to users really doesn't justify anything imho. Calling this a mid-fi forum or the 'majority' is also incorrect. While alot of newer people have joined the forum there are alot of elders like myself who have had the pleasure of digging a little deeper and growing our systems over time. This has resulted in better sounding rings and given us an opportunity to learn and grow with the hobby.

To consider the LSi series of speakers mid-fi is again wrong imho. To give you some perspective I was using nearly $8k worth of gear (CD/amp) to drive a pair of LSi9 speakers for nearly 3 years. I think it is safe to say that I had faith in the speakers and try as I might I simply could'nt best them untill I moved up into MUCH higher end speakers ($3k-5k) While I can agree that alot of newer forum members won't spend nearly this much on their LSi's for a mere two channel setup I can give you several examples which will work. Again I recommend finding a great dealer and doing some exploring on your own outside of visiting forum. You can't test drive amplifiers by reading.

Krell doesn't make a 50wpc amplifier - I originally suggested a NAD 320BEE which has a whopping (great ready) price of $400 US brand new. I used this amplifier with an NAD cd player and Polk Audio LSi9 speakers for over a year with great results. If you'd like to really blow the budget and require a little more grunt you can step up to the NAD 352 which is $599 new. This should be excellent even with the LSi15's and sound even more dynamic then my previously more expensive SimAudio 80wpc intergrated, I had once again used with LSi9's and LSi15's. Acheiving dyanmic's can be done both at lower price points with much much lower spec's. While the NAD might not look as nice as the 200wpc stuff the money is spent on the power supply and cap's. For $400 you get an amp that has a Toroidal Power Transformer and is stable down to 2ohm's.

If you'd prefer refinement you could "step up" to a Rotel 1062 which is $700 brand new. 60wpc but a solid power supply and a nice clean pre-amp section. For further refinement (depth of soundstage and blacker background) and integration of home theatre you could kick it up one last notch into a SimAudio i-5080 (used) or SimAudio i-3 (used but replacement for the i-5080) for $700 - $1000. I've used the SimAudio for two years at times with the LSi9's and LSi15's...again with great results. The home theatre by-pass input allows for integration with existing home theatre receivers.

...just my .2 cents.

Sickicw - not to single you out, but have you heard a Krell amplifier? Which amplifier was it? Again, if you've heard a Krell KSA series amplifier or Evolution series I think you might have a different take of the price justification. It's ok if you can't afford one (I can't either) but to quote Linn founder Ivor Tiefenbrun if you have't listened, you don't have an opinon.

I'd like to take a second and point out that I'm by no means an elitest, although some might consider me one (they'd be wrong) I just think its nice to put a little rational thought into the discussions and hopefully steer a potential buyer in the right direction. Lord only know's I've made my fair of mistakes.

jdhdiggs

ohskigod wrote:

I have been meaning to take my 9's and try them on my Anthem amp 1 (40 watts tube power) but just havent done it. I would probably like the results for music, but to use that all around in a theater set up? I dont know man. Power and dynamics usually rule the day for movies and whatnot.

Lou,

You'll have no issues with using the Anthem unless you run the speakers full range with no sub and try and hit reference levels. With the 9's x-overed at 50Hz, my peaks on explosions only reach the 20-25W range at reference in a 9,000 cubic foot area.

ohskigod

I'll be using the anthem in another 2 channel rig I'm putting together. Dodd ELP, Anthem Amp 1, CAL cd player I just bought from Russ, along with the Xbox 360. The speaker I was planning on using were my Rogers LS-6 monitors, but I plan on seeing how the LSi9's sound for kicks and giggles.

It will be just for music, so I'm keeping he sub out of the equation for now, but I do still have an Outlaw ICBM in case I change my mind

sickicw

lush, i demoed a krell showcase (5 channel version) at the dealer with lots of different 4 ohm speakers. Unfortunately, he wouldn’t let me take it home to demo with my lsi9s and I couldnt afford it at the time (although I would have been able to afford it if I would have bought a used version when I was initally building my system). I have not demoed any other higher end krells because they are well outside of my budget, but I am sure you are correct in that they would sound better.

james atherton

hi i was just wondering.would a rotel rb-1070 power amp with a rotel rc-1070 stereo control,work to push the lsi-9 in a two channel system

james atherton

also does anyone have any advice on how far away from the wall the lsi9 have to be i have a small room

zombie boy 2000

Welcome to the Forum James:)

Maybe you should start a new thread. That way other members can focus on your questions.

jdhdiggs

Lou,

You'll be fine @50W. You're not one of those people who "ROCKS OUT!!!" trying to get 130dB from a system. The only time the LSi's sounded underpowered was whent they were on the 2W amp. At 35W the bass and sound was just fine.

james atherton

hi just wanted to know if a rotel rb-1070 power amp 130 wpc will drive the lsi9 with authority.also want a recomendation on how far from the wall they should be the lsi9. thanks

dane_peterson

James, do a search on "rmb-1070" or "Rotel". This amp has been discussed on quite a few occasions in regards to LSi's.

As for distance from the wall, not an absurd amount is needed like some speakers. They're still relatively small, and though they do produce quite a sound, they should be just fine being even 8" from the wall.

sickicw

james atherton wrote:

also want a recomendation on how far from the wall they should be the lsi9. thanks

I found that they sounded boomy until i put some bass panels behind them. I have them about a foot from the wall. I'm sure they would tighten up if they were moved a few more feet from the wall.