Lsi9's

PolkFan1

Would a Harman Kardon 2 channel 120 x 2 receiver be good enough to drive a set of lsi9's? On a scale of 1 to 10..1 being the worst...what would you rate how good the HK can do compared to a good seperate amp? I do not want to spend a lot of money and then hardly be able to get the potential out of the lsi9's. Also...they are 4 ohm speakers so would my receiver still be able to do the job?

VR3

3-4 max

dane_peterson

I'm afraid if you don't want to spend a lot of money, the LSi line is simply not for you.

Great speakers, but require a lot of investment to make them shine.

cfrizz

What Sid & Dane said PF1! Unless you are willing to shell out money for a 200wpc amp, don't even bother.

Look for used amps on Audiogon. Rotel, Outlaw, Parasound, etc.

Sami

Which receiver do you have? 3480? It will have no trouble with the 9's. Don't worry, you don't have to spend a lot of money to make LSi's sound great.

sickicw

they can dip down to around 2 ohms....

one a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate it at about 3 or 4.

see my graphs....

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50298

MSALLA

If you have them crossed over to a sub at say 80hz, it will be alittle easyer on the receiver.

VR3

I wont say you need 200 wpc...

You could get by with a 60 watt amp if needed. The Adcom GFA-535 would drive them, wouldnt make them sing - just drive.

jakelm

I'm sure you could find a good Hafler DH-200 on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hafler-DH-200-Musical-Concepts_W0QQitemZ320095054813QQcategoryZ39783QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have one....A very solid amp for the buck. And very stable at low ohms.

liordra

before I picked up my AVR, I researched HK models as well. my impression was that when say Yamaha or Denon claim 100 wpc , the power is equivalent to what HW would claim 55 WPC. so I think that 110 is plenty. that said the quality of those watts is another question. LSI 9? I'd try to grab a nice used stereo amp.

Sami

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

You could get by with a 60 watt amp if needed. The Adcom GFA-535 would drive them, wouldnt make them sing - just drive.

535 would be a waste of money IMO, the HK (depending on the model) already has a stronger amp section in it. I briefly compared Adcom 545 and HK3375 side by side and I'd say those two were a close call.

markmarc

I've said this a couple of different times about the LSi's and power, but it bears repeating. The LSi's crave quality power. With all respect to Cfrizz and others they do NOT need massive doses of mediocre/average power. Paul DiComo of Polk will tell you that he has heard the LSi's sing with an Arcam receiver. The fact is that the LSi's like all finer speakers place demands on an amp. The better built the amplifier section, the more amazing the sonic output. My Onix SP3 at 38wpc gave the LSi7's all they wanted.

Now, will the HK3480 work, yes, can one do better under, say $500, absolutely. But you might find the HK to be a fine starting point, that later would work as a preamp as you build your system up. Audio is a journey, not an end point.

tonyb

There are a bunch of quality AVR's that can do 4 ohm and push the LSI's no problem.But we are not talking a 500 dollar HK.For the price of one of those big buck AVR's,you can do nicely going seperates.Comes down to what fits your lifestyle.

This question gets asked almost daily now....SEARCH button at the top of the page works

rt7s

i ran rt20p's rt7's cs225 and a psw1200 off a AVR125!

sickicw

So has anyone on this forum, listened to the lsi9 on a 2 ohms stable amp?

dane_peterson

Well, apparently the LSi9s dip into 2 ohms at around 70Hz. I have mine crossing over at 60 through my Sunfire, and they sound great in my opinion. The Sunfire can driver 800w @ 2ohms for short periods of time.

Sami

No 9's but I drove my 15's with an Aragon 2004; 100W@8ohm, 200W@4ohm and what I have seen also 400W@2ohm. Full range, no sub when I had them on 2ch configuration and they did sound great.

The important spec is not the watts, it's the current. That HK (still waiting on PolkFan1 to confirm the model) is rated at 45A which is more than a lot of the external amps put out. I have no doubt it would be able to drive even 15's if needed.

cfrizz

With all due respect Mark, I wouldn't call Rotel, Parasound, Outlaw, Sunfire, Adcom, etc. mediocre or average.

My brother's Rotel 50wpc amp gave his LSI 7's plenty as well. But you could fry an egg on it after an extended period of time. His Parasound 205wpc gives it more now, sounds better, & runs nice and cool even after heavy usage.

They might not NEED massive doses of power, but they SOUND better with massive doses of power.

This has been my point all along, I don't just want to settle for the bare minimum of what will drive my speakers. I want them to have all the power that they can handle so that I get the FULL sound that they are capable of giving, so that I hear everything that is on the cd, dvd, etc to hear.

markmarc wrote:

I've said this a couple of different times about the LSi's and power, but it bears repeating. The LSi's crave quality power. With all respect to Cfrizz and others they do NOT need massive doses of mediocre/average power. Paul DiComo of Polk will tell you that he has heard the LSi's sing with an Arcam receiver. The fact is that the LSi's like all finer speakers place demands on an amp. The better built the amplifier section, the more amazing the sonic output. My Onix SP3 at 38wpc gave the LSi7's all they wanted.

Now, will the HK3480 work, yes, can one do better under, say $500, absolutely. But you might find the HK to be a fine starting point, that later would work as a preamp as you build your system up. Audio is a journey, not an end point.

PolkFan1

What does the tweeter sound like in the lsi9's compared to the rti tweeters?

Is an amp just going to make things louder or enhance the quality of the speakers? I am just wondering if I do not have a good amp if I am sacrificing the quality or the loudness...Because I can just be satisfied with speakers that do not make you go deaf.

Sami

The tweeter IMO is the best part of the LSi lineup, a huge improvement over RTi. HUGE.

If you're worried about cost and sacrificing sound quality, I can tell you the LSi's will sound much better than RTi's even on cheaper electronics. Get the LSi's, your receiver will play them just fine. Later on the road upgrade to separate amp from the used market, it will make the LSi's sound even better. Some of the people here make it sound like the LSi's are not a worthy speaker unless your electronics aren't up to the task. That's not the case, they will sound great and improvements in the chain will make them sound even better.

If you want something easier to drive, consider LSi7's. They will sound great too, even better with a good sub in the mix.

markmarc

Cfrizz:
Sorry I wasn't clear. I've seen this thread way too many times. Most people brag about their 200-400wpc mediocre quality amps being the only way to push the 9's. Obviously the brands you mention have quality power supplies. But I still maintain that the difference I've heard between medium and high power to the LSi's just aren't necessary. Once again, it's the quality of the amp. One that can push 45 amps consistently versus a milli-second or two but only has half the wpc is going to do a far better job with the LSi's.

Sami:
You're right, the VIFA tweeter is stunning in the LSi's, much to do with underrated crossover design in the LSi's, as that tweeter is known to be a hard one to harness.

cfrizz

Hi Mark. A good many people on this board HAVE the amps that I have mentioned in the watts that you have mentioned. The vast majority of us have noted a big difference for the better. We all can't be wrong.

You are implying that while they have "quality power supplies" they are still mediocre. Then you say higher quality amps with far less watts are better.

I am very curious as to what amps are you talking about. Please clarify some more. Thanks.

sickicw

Sami wrote:

Some of the people here make it sound like the LSi's are not a worthy speaker unless your electronics aren't up to the task.

Not so much the electronics, but rather the amp. I think the lsi9 on a crappy amp will still sound better for reproducting some things, in particular voices in movies. But if you are comparting heavy metal music on rti with good amp, against lsi on crappy amp, i think i would go with the rti just because its going to have much more slam to it. Now if you ungrade the lsi with a good amp, its lsi all the way. You will then get plenty of slam and the high end guitar solos are clean and clear.

Sami

Yes but RTi on crappy amp vs. LSi on crappy amp, I'd still give the edge overall to LSi's. On decent amp like the HK in question has, it's no contest, LSi is better. With a sub, even better.

LSi's took me personally to another level on audio that I never experienced with RTi's. I first had 7's that were driven by HK AVR7200 that was more than adequate to drive them. Granted, moving to separate amp was a step up but the HK still made the 7's sing beautifully. I moved up to 15's and it's slight improvement on some of the fr range but with a sub in mix the 7's were pretty damn impressive. Yes, I know they are not as hard to drive as 9's but even a cheap lower end Pioneer stereo receiver made them sound pretty good when they weren't pushed hard.

I do admit though that the LSi's sound their best when played at loud volumes. Do you need "200W" to do that? No, but I would select something that (nearly) doubles watts from 8 ohm to 4ohm. I'd rather take something that goes from 100W@8 to 200W@4 than 200W@8 to 300W@4.

markmarc

Cfrizz:
I'm talking about the Pioneer (recent, not vintage), Sony, Technics, pretty much the stuff Best Buy pushes off. Hope that helps.

cfrizz

Ah yes that does clarify things Mark. The only things I buy at BB is computer software & cd's, dvd's etc.

I wouldn't dream of buy a piece of audio equipment there. As the saying goes you get what you pay for!

When I want audio equipment I go to a true audio store.

LuSh

I can only agree with Marc. I think most people have no idea what they're talking about anymore in regards to spec's...it seems alot of people like to throw current, amp and wattage spec's around without using one's ears.

The HK amp spec is laughable at best...if 45amp's went to an 8ohm speaker the total dynamic power peak would be 16000 watts. Do the math. You can't even trust the typical double down numbers anymore. Most manufactures will spec down the 8ohm rating and up the 4ohm rating. I know this because my Krell is offically spec'd at 200 @ 8ohm's and 400 @ 4ohm's but the reality is it produces closer to 290 wpc @ 8ohm's and 350 wpc @ 4ohm's. It's alot of marketing, even in the high end. Every number can be manipulated and usually is. Trust your ears...markmarc is bang on. I've driven LSi9's with as low as 50 wpc (spec'd) and it's been fantastic. Polk Audio has used Ayre gear at shows which was only 60 wpc...but it will destroy alot of stuff already mentioned in this thread. Quality people, not quantity.

cfrizz

I don't have Krell's or Ayers kind of money new or used. Therefore, I get what I need in terms of power from higher quantity midfi gear.

My ears have told me & countless others on this forum that 200wpc & up from MIDFI companies gets the job done!

Some of you say we are playing a numbers game, well you are playing a name game.

A lot of people come on this forum wanting better equipment but money is a big concern.

So long as all of us end up with gear that makes our speakers sound great, that should be all that matters! Regardless of what name is on the box or how much money one does or does not spend!

LuSh

No problem. But you might want to consider that disclaimer next time when you recommend something. Rather then spending potential thousands on upgrades over 5 years a person might opt and save for that really big purchase which I suppose is rare in a finance frenzy marketplace.

I'd also like to point out that the 50wpc amp that made my LSi9's sing was a $400 NAD 320BEE. It's not always about price or name. Again, refer to your ears over numbers. Visiting a dealer will save you thousands if you can find a good one. I find most people get on the merry go round of upgrades because they think they're getting a deal by seeking advice and purchasing used online. A good dealer can ensure you get the proper service once if you choose never to upgrade again.

cfrizz

Nobody else makes any disclaimers when they make their recommendations so why should I? When the rest of you start to, so will I.

dane_peterson

Lush,
Though you may very well be correct, my guess is that only a small percentage of the members here have easy access to a dealer that not only sells the LSi line, but "quality" amps to back them.
The very generic recommendation has been "200watts at 8ohms". Though this isn't the 'end all' solution for LSis, at least it's SOMETHING for new Polkies who want to drive their equipment with sufficient gear.

Instead of arguing about what generically DOESN'T work, how about we discuss about specifically what DOES work? A thread with a list of amps that perform well, based off first-hand experiences for those of us so fortunate enough to have a local dealer with an enormous crop of equipment.