can RTi12's handle 400w

ronnie
ronnie Posts: 150
edited August 2006 in Speakers
my other adcom GFA555 is do to be here tomorrow and im going to mono each one to my 12's....can they really handle all that power? the top end of my 12's is running off my reciever and i cant imagine it getting any louder....i dont wanna blow my speakers or burn up the tweeter....REALLY, can they handle all that power???? anyone else really pushing there 12's hard and have any experience doing it??
Yamaha RX-V2600
Adcom GFA555 x 2 :D
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Polk RTi12 mains
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2006
    No experience at all here, but have you considered bi-amping with the two amps instead of putting them into mono mode? I don't *know* which is better, but when you put them into mono mode, that'll in effect make them be pushing a speaker of lower resistance, thus requiring more current from them and lowering your headroom.

    I don't *know* that it'd be better, but I'd at least look into bi-amping with the pair instead of putting them in mono mode.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited August 2006
    for a $1,500 RTi moniker and 6 drivers per enclosure, they better be able to handle 400 watts. They better be able to handle more than that.
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited August 2006
    They'll take it. And more. I think you should bi amp them, though.
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  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited August 2006
    I have our 12's bi amped with Adcom amps...200 wpc on the lower end and 125 wpc on the tweets and mids...

    They perform very well with setup,I would not run the amps in mono if it were me...yes the speakers will handle 400 wpc with no problems,it's usually not enough power trying to overdrive speakers that will cause damage.
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  • jimi64
    jimi64 Posts: 85
    edited August 2006
    Yes,they can handle 400 watts.And I`msure they would like it! I can`t remember who it was I talked to at polk customer srevice,but I was told in bi-amping these speakers I could go up tp 150 watts on the top and 500 on the bottom-yes 500.I have 100/250 going to mine and they sound much better than when I had just 250 with the jumpers in place.
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  • ronnie
    ronnie Posts: 150
    edited August 2006
    why would using the amps in mono be a bad idea? would'nt be better to put more power than less?..im really not sure what would be a better option...
    Yamaha RX-V2600
    Adcom GFA555 x 2 :D
    Yamaha CD685 cd changer
    Yamaha Dvd c950 dvd changer
    Polk RTi12 mains
    Polk CSi3 center
    Polk psw303
    Polk RTi6 (surround and surround back)
    Acoustic Research 12in 200 watt sub(8 years old and still hits hard:D)
    WindyWillys cooling fan (works great)
    Mitsubishi 52in big screen
    blue jeans cables
    AR interconnects
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2006
    When you put the amps in mono mode, that effectively lessens the resistance the amps are seeing, thus making them crank out more current, meaing they're working harder at the same level and leaving you with less headroom for dynamics. If you biamp them, then they'll just be seeing the resistance the speakers present, meaning they'll be able to keep up better and have more headroom available for dynamics.

    Bi-amp them as a few others here seem to be doing.
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  • ronnie
    ronnie Posts: 150
    edited August 2006
    audiobliss wrote:
    When you put the amps in mono mode, that effectively lessens the resistance the amps are seeing, thus making them crank out more current, meaing they're working harder at the same level and leaving you with less headroom for dynamics. If you biamp them, then they'll just be seeing the resistance the speakers present, meaning they'll be able to keep up better and have more headroom available for dynamics.

    Bi-amp them as a few others here seem to be doing.

    perfect explanation....thanks
    Yamaha RX-V2600
    Adcom GFA555 x 2 :D
    Yamaha CD685 cd changer
    Yamaha Dvd c950 dvd changer
    Polk RTi12 mains
    Polk CSi3 center
    Polk psw303
    Polk RTi6 (surround and surround back)
    Acoustic Research 12in 200 watt sub(8 years old and still hits hard:D)
    WindyWillys cooling fan (works great)
    Mitsubishi 52in big screen
    blue jeans cables
    AR interconnects
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2006
    Wow...perfect explanation...lemme bask in this nice, warm feeling...

    :p
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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    Epson 8700UB
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    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
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  • Holydoc
    Holydoc Posts: 1,048
    edited August 2006
    audiobliss wrote:
    Wow...perfect explanation...lemme bask in this nice, warm feeling...

    :p


    Careful Audiobliss... you may get sunburned. :D
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2006
    Haha. That's the truth...I'm one light-skinned red head...I know all about burning!
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2006
    I would mono them.

    From AB perspective, yes an amp is seeing only half the resistance as if it were running in stereo. Fortunately, you have twice the number of output transisters. Running in mono keeps you from having crosstalk between the channels. Additionally, when you look at the dynamic system, you will have more power and headroom in the mono configuration. If you bi-amp, you'll end up with less headroom as the bass section will always require more power. In a biamp config, you limit that volume to the 250W (or whatever your amp runs) for the lower section. Monoing the speaker allows the bass section to get the full 400W if needed. Look at it this way. Break the whole system into 4 speakers. highs L & R and lows L&R. In biamp, you limit all the speakers to 250W. In mono, any pair of high and low can use upto 400W to power either of those speaker. In a biamp config, you don't get the 250W+250W=500W. In reality you'll be getting more like 275W on musical passages.

    In the end, you'll be lucky to run 35W anyway so it's all mute
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2006
    Good point you bring up; I hadn't thought of that.

    I guess it comes down to try 'em both and decide for yourself!
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • univera
    univera Posts: 848
    edited August 2006
    Great thread, guys. From a distortion standpoint, which method is a "cleaner" setup? Or is that a mute point? I would think one method would introduce more distortion vs. the other, regardless of dynamics. That is pure, layman's thinking, with no scientific understanding.

    If I understand correctly, in mono mode, its an open channel of current and the speaker just takes what it needs for whatever part of the music requires the most wattage. In bi-amp mode, the individual speakers within the box will get a fixed wattage, regardless of those individual speaker's needs. Since a sub is more power hungry, it can just "take" what it needs in mono mode and leave the rest to the other speakers in the box. JD, perfect as well!
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2006
    univera wrote:
    Great thread, guys. From a distortion standpoint, which method is a "cleaner" setup? Or is that a mute point? I would think one method would introduce more distortion vs. the other, regardless of dynamics. That is pure, layman's thinking, with no scientific understanding.

    If I understand correctly, in mono mode, its an open channel of current and the speaker just takes what it needs for whatever part of the music requires the most wattage. In bi-amp mode, the individual speakers within the box will get a fixed wattage, regardless of those individual speaker's needs. Since a sub is more power hungry, it can just "take" what it needs in mono mode and leave the rest to the other speakers in the box. JD, perfect as well!

    Depending on the amp, there is no set "cleaner" setup. Mono mode is a little "sloppier" than 2 channel and 2 channel has x-talk so there you go...

    As for your understanding, that's basically correct. Remember: A speaker will only pull as much power as the musical piece demands so 1,000,000 W amp wouldn't blow your speakers unless your trying to deafen the world.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited August 2006
    I have 12s biamped, 200 on bottom Outlaw Monos and 170 on top from the AVR. I bet those things will rock with the adcoms.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

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  • ronnie
    ronnie Posts: 150
    edited August 2006
    okay.....results.....i tried the bi-amp method with both adcoms, one for the highs and the other still on the lows...big improvement on the upper end...my reciever says it puts out 130 watts....probably putting more like 80,85 real watts into the highs....my 12's really came alive on the top end......then i tried each amp in mono and made my own jumpers out of 12gauge wire ........WOW......night and day....i never heard such beautiful sound...absolutly pleased and YES they sure like and can handle the power......thanks for all the info guys...
    Yamaha RX-V2600
    Adcom GFA555 x 2 :D
    Yamaha CD685 cd changer
    Yamaha Dvd c950 dvd changer
    Polk RTi12 mains
    Polk CSi3 center
    Polk psw303
    Polk RTi6 (surround and surround back)
    Acoustic Research 12in 200 watt sub(8 years old and still hits hard:D)
    WindyWillys cooling fan (works great)
    Mitsubishi 52in big screen
    blue jeans cables
    AR interconnects
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited August 2006
    Told you so.... Now go back to stero mode and only use one amp and compare it to bi-amping. You'll probably be very surpised at what you here ( or don't... ;) )
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited August 2006
    I was hitting my pair at one time with 420 watts per, so the answer is yes, and then some. ;)
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  • XJRGUY
    XJRGUY Posts: 258
    edited August 2006
    I've seen the power meters on my Soundcraftsmen amps go to 600 Watts per channel on some transients when I am testing.

    I have RTi12's and yes they can handle the power with no problems.
    http://www.laspeedgarage.com
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