Receiver for RTI4's
Comments
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Mike682 wrote:The 45w/channel on the HK will be fine enough to drive the Rti4s. First step: Check simple things like speaker wire polarity (also gauge too: hk recommends 14 gauge wire and nothing thinner than 16ga), etc. With all that switching, it may be possible to have an oversight.
Check your speaker levels too.
Also try the HK with different sources..
Does the Kenwood have a loud setting? This will overemphasize the lower frequencies at lower volumes therefore making it sound more punchy at lower volumes.
Try the HK using Dolby pro logic II, music.
Thanks for helping out Mike.:)
I was trying to juggle a couple of things yesterday afternoon and couldn't really wrap my head fully around this issue.
+1 on the loud setting
make sure you're not mistaking louder for more detailed
+1 on the gauge of the speaker wire
We can argue all we want here on the forum about "snake oil" claims and the legitimacy of higher-end cables. But we're pretty much all in agreement that 12-gauge of Ratshack wire will always sound better than 22 gauge of the same wire.
+1 on checking the speaker levels, as wellI never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Thanks for the input. I am not 100% of the wire in each room, but I am pretty sure in the living room in the I have 14 or 16 gauge monster speaker wire and I am pretty sure the same goes for the bedroom with the Kenwood. The spreaker wires are difference colors (one is white, one is clear), but I am pretty they are both the same gauge. I will double check that tonight. I will also double check the polarity.
The Kenwood does have a load setting, but its not the speaker level I am hearing. The speakers in the bedroom definity have more range than the ones in the living room with the HK.
I am going to tinker with these things over the next week and will get back to you. I am currently in the midest of painting and other remodeling work, so I've got my hands full until rooms are put back together.
At least I know the reciever should be adequate. -
*Kenwood has a loud button, not a load button. Opps!
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One thing to keep in mind is that what seems like 14 or 16 gauge wire from Monster is probably more like 18 or 20 gauge. Why is this? Keep in mind that Monster does not release the gauge sizes of their lower-end "bulk" wire. I was curious, myself, when I couldn't properly determine the gauge of some Monster wire that I owned.
So I called their customer service and gave them the model #. I was thinking somewhere between 12 and 14 gauge. Well, the gentleman on the other end was quite hesitant to come off the info -- but after prepping me with a "between you and me", he informed me that it was 18 gauge.
I couldn't believe it, as the wire just seemed so much thicker. He simply referred me to the "small tube" than runs between the conductors, supposedly to enhance performance. IMO it increases the gauge size "cosmetically", while remaining more akin to dental floss performance-wise.
How do I know? I traded it out for some standard 10-gauge courtesy of Blue Jeans Cable and the difference was startling. It should be noted that BJC makes no "enhanced performance" claims.
Not to knock all things Monster. Their mid-level to higher-end stuff is more than likely better than Home Depot. But as for their bulk in a box... be careful.
Sorry for the long post, but at this point we're pursuing every avenue.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
If bass is an issue, you'll get much better bass response using Logic7 than dolby prologic II(x).
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Interesting stuff. I am going to have to double check the cabeling in the other room, as that stuff came from my miscellaneous wire box, which did have some 12 guage speaker wire leftover from another project.
This is a great forum. I think I'm hooked on it. As I have been looking at other people's setups I have noticed a lot of people have a seperate amp.
Andrew, I looked up that HK Sig 2.1 and it has 100 wpc while the AVR235 had 50 wpc. Did you ever run the Rti4's on just the receiver or did you always have the amp? I am curious of the sound difference between just the AVR235 and the ARV 235 with that external amp. -
boxxkar wrote:Andrew, I looked up that HK Sig 2.1 and it has 100 wpc while the AVR235 had 50 wpc. Did you ever run the Rti4's on just the receiver or did you always have the amp? I am curious of the sound difference between just the AVR235 and the ARV 235 with that external amp.
I ran my R30's with my AVR235 and it had plenty of volume.
When I added the seperate amp, my soundstage opened up and seemed wider. I'm not knocking the HK AVR amps as they do a great job, and I respect HK for rating their receivers appropriately. However, a seperate power amp of the same rated wattage will offer increased dynamics because the amp has its own dedicated power supply. A receiver power supply, in contrast, must supply power to the pre-amp, amp, tuner, processor, etc.
Just remember you need pre-outs to add an amplifier to your receiver. HK recievers 2xx and higher have pre-outs..Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
Mains: polk R30
Center: polk CSi3
Rear Surrounds: polk R20
Subwoofer: polk PSW404
DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29 -
zombie boy 2000 wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that what seems like 14 or 16 gauge wire from Monster is probably more like 18 or 20 gauge. Why is this? Keep in mind that Monster does not release the gauge sizes of their lower-end "bulk" wire. I was curious, myself, when I couldn't properly determine the gauge of some Monster wire that I owned.
So I called their customer service and gave them the model #. I was thinking somewhere between 12 and 14 gauge. Well, the gentleman on the other end was quite hesitant to come off the info -- but after prepping me with a "between you and me", he informed me that it was 18 gauge.
Very interesting. The monster xp wire does look very thin. I also knew something was up when I couldn't find the guage spec on the package..Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
Mains: polk R30
Center: polk CSi3
Rear Surrounds: polk R20
Subwoofer: polk PSW404
DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29 -
Mike682 wrote:Very interesting. The monster xp wire does look very thin.
Exactly...
the jacket looks thick with the XP, but when you factor out that "clear magical tube" running between the conductors, you're not left with much. Trust me.
The SQ of my gear opened up immensely once I ditched the stuff.
As for an external amp, I noticed a world of difference when my HK avr240 got reassigned to pre/pro duty. A vast increase in soundstage the most noticable improvement. Increased headroom also led to more clarity in the presentation. An external amp is one of the best (if not the best) upgrades you can make.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
boxxkar wrote:Andrew, I looked up that HK Sig 2.1 and it has 100 wpc while the AVR235 had 50 wpc. Did you ever run the Rti4's on just the receiver or did you always have the amp? I am curious of the sound difference between just the AVR235 and the ARV 235 with that external amp.
I've ran my entire setup on just the avr-235, and it sounded fantastic. I decided to move up to the amp to get that last little bit of warmth and dry sound out of my rti speakers, which tend to have neutral/bright sound characteristics.
The improvement is there, but not how one would anticipate. The volume itself is only about +3db. louder on average, but the sound in and of itself is more dry, warm, and layered. Is my amp overkill with what i've got? You damn right, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Andrew hit the nail on the head. The changes are not so much in the volume increase, but rather in the effortlessness with which the music comes through. "Layered" is a perfect description.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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Thank's for the input. I've got some things to try out now. I just need to finish work now, so I can get home and try it out.
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zombie boy 2000 wrote:Andrew hit the nail on the head. The changes are not so much in the volume increase, but rather in the effortlessness with which the music comes through. "Layered" is a perfect description.
right on. Not to mention that the current capability of the avr-235 is +/-35 or even the 140 (+/-25) would blow that Kenwood out of the water. Imo current is much more important than mere wattage.
The current on my amp is +/-100 (:eek: ). That's where that "layered" bit that I referred to earlier comes into play. -
aaharvel wrote:right on. Not to mention that the current capability of the avr-235 is +/-35 or even the 140 (+/-25) would blow that Kenwood out of the water. Imo current is much more important than mere wattage.
Very true. My brother had a 100w/channel kenwood reciever. We did a shootout between his kenwood and my HK235. To simply state the results: my brother now owns an HK receiver.Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
Mains: polk R30
Center: polk CSi3
Rear Surrounds: polk R20
Subwoofer: polk PSW404
DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29 -
Ok, after some re-wiring I think I am getting better results out of the HK AVR-130. I replaced the smaller monster speaker wire with 14 gauge RCA wire I got at Home Depot. It's was notably thicker than the monster cable. I also doubled checked the wires to make sure I hadn't crossed the plus and minus sides.
At some point I might consider replacing the HK, but I am going hold out for while. After reading several of the posts in this form, I've got some questions on receivers. Is there a price point that has a better return on your dollar than another. What manufacture has a good bang for your buck product? I while I was reading the forms I came across Outlaw. They claim to offer a better product for money, is it true?
