Can't Get LSi7's to sound good for rock music

DForeman

I have Polk LSi7 speakers hooked up to a Denon 2106 receiver (100w/c). The sub is a Polk PSW 303. Although jazz music sounds superb, I just can't get rock music to sound great.

I am talking about 2-channel sound here.

Any suggestions?

audiobliss

I would say that you're not going to get the LSi7's to sound really good for any type of music until you get an external amplifier to push 'em. Hook up one of them, and you'll be blown away by the increased performance.

Airplay355

Agreed...Try getting a nicer sub too.

McLoki

External amp will help alot. Another thing to play with is the sub crossover and volume. Alot of times bass really helps define rock music and if that is not right, you just won't be able to get the impact you need to enjoy rock.

As opposed to most music where you will lower the crossover setting to try and let the speaker play as much as possible - try and raise the crossover to get more of the bass moved to the subwoofer. (as you move the crossover up, you will be able to locate the sub by the sound so it better be in the front of your room, preferably between the LSi7's.

It could also be just to small of a speaker for your room. (but the only LSi line you will be able to play off a reciever with even a chance of sucess)

All ideas are just worth playing with between sessions of looking for a nice amp.

Michael

danger boy

some receivers will power the LSi's ok.. but like it was mentioned already. adding a two channel amp to power those. will make a big difference.

mldennison

maybe you can give us a better description of what you think is lacking? you said jazz music sounds good so you have some idea what you are looking for here. so what is it that is wrong with your rock cd's, is it the detail, soundstage, low end, volume...

DForeman

At higher volumes (-15 or so) the mids and highs start sounding somewhat distorted with a definite lack of soundstage.

2+2

DForeman wrote:

At higher volumes (-15 or so) the mids and highs start sounding somewhat distorted with a definite lack of soundstage.

Sounds like your reaching the limits of your AVR.....although at -15, it shouldnt be.....

mldennison

well that sounds to me like an amplification problem if things sound good at lower volumes but not so good at higher ones.

madmax

For sure, a higher powered high current 2 channel amplifier is needed. Something over a few hundred watts per channel. Also, if the lsi's are new they will sound better after about 200 hours of use. Pretty strange but it is very noticeable.
madmax

Joey_V

Amplification problem... your 7s need more power.... or you need 9s.

I think what you're looking for is a cleaner midrange... and the 9s have it, or if you go with higher current amplification, you will get a better balance and cohesiveness from the 7s. Rock music is very messy and very busy... the only time I've actually enjoyed rock music is on my ML, if that says anything.

DForeman

The consenus seems to be to get an external amp. Any suggestions for brand and power. I don't want to spend more than $500.

Thanks all for your help here. Appreciate it!

steveinaz

Used or possibly Outlaw amps at that price. Try to get at least 150 watts, 200watts recommended.

audiobliss

Here's a list of links to manufacturers websites that make amps. If you need to stay under $500, you most definitely have to go with used. I'd keep a look out in the fea market here, and check out audiogon frequently.

As for power, I'd recommend 200-250wpc. I wouldn't settle for any less.

Audiosource Amplifiers
Audiosource could be good if you're on a really tight budget. They're mostly pro amps, and so aren't really suited to home audio, much less speakers of the same caliber as the LSi series.

AMC Amplifiers
Outlaw Audio Products Page
AMC and Outlaw are also good if you're on a budget, as they're more affordable new than a lot of other amps. I'd much rather use AMC or Outlaw than Audiosource.


The rest are pretty much 'high-end', though some are obviously more so than others. With the rest of these, you're basically going to be satisfied until you seriously get into critical listening and demanding the most your system can deliver.

Adcom Amplifiers

NAD Electronics

B&K Products

Rotel Stereo Amplifiers

Anthem

Sunfire Amplifiers

Parasound

Niles

Odyssey Audio

Monarchy Audio

Bryston

Krell

Musical Fidelity

Joey_V

Rotel RB1070 or higher... if your receiver has preouts, you're set.

Joey_V

Or the Khartago.

McLoki

at a listening distance of about 10 feet I started getting dynamic compression from my LSi7's at about 103-105db. I think that is about the design limits of the LSi7's and I never tried to push them further. (I always turned it down when I started to hear the speakers strain)

In your case with a marginal amp (as far as pushing the 7's to their limits) I am sure you will run out of steam before that.

Any idea what SPL's you are running when you notice it starting to strain?

You have a bad combo of a mid-line AVR, a fairly hard to drive small speaker, and rock music (that, as stated, is not the LSi's forte - jazz, on the other hand, is).

best of luck, but until we get more info, I think all you will get is reiterations of the first 10 or 11 posts....

Michael

edit - a lot of responses since I started typing this reply..... thats what I get for trying to work while on the forum.

Joey_V

Mike ^^ has some good points.. you may be hitting compression limits of your LSi7... couple that with a mediocre amp secton off your AVR and we have bad reproduction.

audiobliss

Ok, I edited my list of manufacturers and added a bit more information. Hopefully it's helpful, and with any luck at all it's at least somewhat accurate!

DForeman

Thanks Audiobliss - this is very helpful.

And thanks to everyone else here as well.

Cheers

heiney9

In addition to all the other fine comments, I'd like to say that most of todays rock music is not recorded all that well. So I'm sure some of the limitations are a combo of the amplifier, driver compression and poor recording quality. Now there are some very well recorded rock albums, but a majority of them are not done very well. They are already distorted and compressed and when you try to play them loud on revealing speakers they sound like crapola. You may find even upgrading your power source, etc. you may have the same result. It's impossible to fix a poor recording unless you buy Bose :eek: .

H9

adam2434

What were your speakers before the 7s?

Maybe you're wanting a "bigger" sound than the 7s/sub combo can deliver.

I'm not knocking the 7s in any way. I just know that bookshelf/sub combos are not everyone's cup of tea, depending on music preferences and listening habits.

Tour2ma

adam2434 wrote:

Maybe you're wanting a "bigger" sound than the 7s/sub combo can deliver.

Or at least than it is delivering...

At the risk of being run over by the "man, you gotta have a separate amp" band-wagon, I have to ask:

1. How are your 7's and sub set up? Are you using the Denon's x-over and sub-out, or the sub's x-over and speaker runs out of the Denon?
2. At what frequency are you crossing over? Have you played with this setting?
3. How did you calibrate your sub's level to work with the 7's?
4. How big is your room?
5. Have you played with the sub's position in the room?

You may really need more current to the 7's, but unless you've exhausted the possibilities to optimize your existing set-up, you shouldn't reach for your wallet just yet.

DForeman

1. I am using Denon's x-over and sub out.
2. Crossing over at 80 -- tried 100 but was too much
3. Not sure how to calibrate the sub - used Denon's auto set up function
4. Listening area room is about 13 x 15
5. Have moved the sub around with little success or difference

Also
Played with the equalizer a bit -- ended up raising the 63HZ level up 4 db which improved the overall sound.

My system does sound good at volumes up to -20, after that the mids and highs distort.

I am thinking of trading in the 7's for the 9's given that they have the extra mid.

heiney9

Dump the eq, they rarely do any good and as volume increases so does the distortion. Eq's add a lot of gain at the boosted frequencies. Still sounds like you are running out of current. If that's the case it's going to be worse with the 9's as they need even more current. If you have truely tried to optimize placement, and still get no satisfaction a seperate amp may be what's needed.

H9

DForeman

I realize I will need even more power with the LSi 9's but want a bigger speaker than the 7's. I am exchanging them now only because I am still within a 90 day window for trading up with the dealer.

I know little about amps so will take my time to research.

In the mean time I will enjoy lots of jazz at lower volumes on the 9's and bide my time for some loud rock 'n roll with a good amp.

heiney9

DForeman wrote:

I realize I will need even more power with the LSi 9's but want a bigger speaker than the 7's. I am exchanging them now only because I am still within a 90 day window for trading up with the dealer.

I know little about amps so will take my time to research.

In the mean time I will enjoy lots of jazz at lower volumes on the 9's and bide my time for some loud rock 'n roll with a good amp.

Sounds like a good plan for the long run.....the 9's will be very nice. Sometimes this hobby takes patience.

H9

audiobliss

Sounds like a good plan to me.

DForeman

Should I upgrade the PSW303 sub to say a PSW404? My listening area isn't that big 13X15. Does quality improve as you go up in this series or just louder?

McLoki

DForeman wrote:

Should I upgrade the PSW303 sub to say a PSW404? My listening area isn't that big 13X15. Does quality improve as you go up in this series or just louder?

For music Polk subs can be ok (although the one you have is not up to the LSi's quality.) For HT - you can do much better.

Is there any chance if you returned the 7's and the sub you could swing the 15's? (hardest LSi speaker to drive, but that and the 25's are the best for rock music IMO).

For 2 channel listening, no sub would be needed. If you chose to do HT at some point, you could wait to get a sub that matches the quality of your LSi's.

I know it may be quite a bit more money, but if you are talking only a few hundred bucks for the difference between the LSi15's and the LSi9's plus a 404 for listening to rock music - I would go for the 15's. (This is personal opinion, many consider the 9's the best of the LSi line - I just consider the 15's to hold that position)

Just throwing out another option.

Michael

DForeman

My first choice has always been to get the LSi15's but due to room configuration and size constraints I need to go with a smaller speaker.

Thanks for your input.