It's Official. Skyline GT-R coming to U.S. in late 2007.

PolkThug · October 2005

Sami wrote:

But it's always power that moves the car, not torque.

You haven't seen my torque curve.

Sami · October 2005

PolkThug wrote:

You haven't seen my torque curve.

And what does the torque curve tell you? You guessed it, power...

audiobliss · October 2005

The problem with having soooo many magazines is you can never find the one you want when you need...

...don't worry, I'm responding...lol....whenever I can find that magazine.....errrrr.....

aaharvel · October 2005

the z06 won't destroy the viper. But it will out corner on the skidpad, out accelerate to 60 and still comes in at 25k less AND gets 26mpg AND can be driven daily without the heat from the engine coming into the cabin and melting your feet.

I've never understood the mystique of the viper. Ever. it's a beast, it's beautiful, it's fast. But it's just not a good 'CAR'.

I stand behind my opinion that the c6 and c6 z06 are the only good cars that GM has ever made. In fact they're the only 'American' cars i'm even interested in period. What makes this car so special in my eyes is that it bridges the gap between foreign car refinement and big American muscle. I've always been a bigger fan of refinement and technology over big block clunkiness. The new vette is the first American sportscar (in ALL aspects of driving) to finally 'GET IT RIGHT'.

audiobliss · October 2005

ND - Oh, my eyes are open. I've actually grown fond of the Viper in the last few weeks. So much so that I don't know if I'd rather have a Viper or a Z06!

Motor Trend November 2005 wrote:

As of this writing, neither Motor Trend - nor anyone else - has track-tested an SRT10 Coupe alongside a new-gen Z06. But we have run them each on different tracks, on different days, and with different drivers. While these numbers (below) aren't conclusive, the do provide a look at the highest-stakes domestic performance matchup since the original Corvette/Cobra wars of four decades ago.

0-60:
SRT10 Coupe: 4.2
Corvette Z06: 3.5

0-100:
SRT10 Coupe: 9.4
Corvette Z06: 7.3

1/4 Mile:
SRT10 Coupe: 12.2/118.0mph
Corvette Z06: 11.5/127.1mph

60-0:
SRT10 Coupe: 111feet
Corvette Z06: 104feet

As you can tell, the Z06 is a no-insignificant-amount faster than the SRT10 in this particular camparo. Now, granted, these were tested on different tracks on different days by different drivers. Account for the high-dependence on driver skill for the Viper, and you could say that they're almost identical, though I believe the 'Vette still edges the Viper.

Now, you also say that the Viper will take the 'Vette on the track. As mind-boggling as the $65,800 Z06's straight line performance is, it's even better on the track. Seeing as how I don't have a life...and am procrastinating...I'll just insert the whole article here...

Motor Trend September 2005 wrote:

How good is the new Corvette Z06? For the definitive answer, you have to wait unit our "First Drive" story appears next month. But we can tell you already that GM's 7.0-liter all-American supercar is the real deal. How? Because Jan Magnusson, one of the drivers of the Le Mans class-winning C6R, turned up at the legendary Nurburgring Nordschliefe circuit the Thursday after the 24-hour race and peeled out a seven-minute 42.99-second lap in a pre-production car - on treaded tires, not race slicks.

To put that lap in perspective, it's within fractions of a second of the best time ever set by Porsche's hard-core 996 GT2 and about 10 seconds faster than the best laps by exotics such as the 493-horse, V-10-powered Lamborghini Gallardo and the 617-horse, supercharged V-8-powered Mercedes-Benz McLaren SLR. What's more, the time was achieved in unseasonably muggy conditions, which probably took a slight edge off the LS7's 505 horses. The only production car that's gone faster at the 'Ring is Porsche's $450,000 Carrera GT, which reportedly has lapped in the seven-minutes 32-seconds bracket.

Our man-on-the-spot says GM spent nearly two weeks testing at the Nurburgring before Magnusson flew in to set a time. Engineers switched suspension settings and changed tires many times before finding the optimun setup. On that day, GM hired the 14.2-mile, 170-turn track exclusively for an hour from seven a.m. Magnusson, who drove for Jackie Stewart's F1 team in 1997 and 1998, did a total of four laps in the Z06, with his best time coming on his final lap.

GM staffers were all smiles as Magnusson pulled off the circuit. His summation? "Absolutely marvelous."

The Nordschleife Hall of Fame:
Porsche Carrera GT___________7 min 32 sec
Chevrolet Corvette Z06________7 min 42 sec
Porsche 996 GT2_____________7min 42 sec
Pagani Zonda S______________7 min 44 sec
Lamborghini Murcielago________7 min 50 sec
Lamborghini Gallardo__________7 min 52 sec
Mercedes-McLaren SLR________7 min 52 sec
Chevrolet Corvette C6________7 min 59 sec
Porsche 911_________________8 min 07 sec
Dodge Viper GTS_____________8 min 10 sec

[And just for your reading pleasure:]

Niki Lauda's 1975 German
GP Pole Lap
Ferrari 312 B3_______________6 min 58 sec

Lap Record:
Stefan Bellof, Porsche,
956, 1983___________________6 min 11 sec

[You may want to note that the lap times for Lauda and Bellof were set on a slightly different track configuration.]

Motor Trend October 2005 wrote:

Weight to Power ratio: (lb per hp)
Ferrari Enzo___________5.0
Porsche Carrera GT______5.4
Corvette Z06___________6.2
Mercedes-Benz SLR_______6.3
Ford GT________________6.3
Ferrari F430_____________6.6
Dodge Viper____________6.8

The Viper SRT10 Coupe makes 510hp and 535lb-ft torque with an 8.3L V-10. The Corvette Z06 makes 505hp and 470lb-ft of torque with a 7.0L V-8. Brand loyalties and overall vehicle performance aside, you hafta admit the LS7 is one incredible piece of engineering art. I mean, 7 liters (427.6 cubic inches) in a small block. The LS7 is remarkable, I think.

EDIT: I'm not bashing the Viper. I think it's an amazing machine as well. Just, the Corvette is, more so.

ND13 · October 2005

Again, it comes down to the driver. And it takes a skilled driver to get the Viper to perform at it's highest. That's where the Vette has an advantage. Those are the worst performance figures I've ever seen for any Viper, including the original in 1992. Somebody either got a Viper that had some issues or a clutch problem or the driver just couldn't get it to hook up. I'm not Vette bashing either, I have only sang it praise for what it is and is good at. One of these days, when you can afford a Z06 and I can afford a new Viper COUPE, I'll take you out to a track and show you the **** end of the Viper all day long

The coupe is a couple hundred pounds lighter than the roadster, so the power to weight ratio is more in line with the Vette, but the Vette is still a few hundred pounds less than the Viper Coupe.

audiobliss · October 2005

Are you implying you're a better driver than I am?!?!!?

ND13 · October 2005

audiobliss wrote:

Are you implying you're a better driver than I am?!?!!?

Yeah... I am. Seeing that I used to race modified 280 ZX's and Mustangs on road courses back in the day and have probably 20+ years more experience than you behind the wheel of rear wheel drive cars with manual trannies.

:eek:

audiobliss · October 2005

:eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I was just joking with that. I'd say at least 98% of the folks here are better drivers than I am. But only due to a lack of experience (on my part). But I'll get there...one day....

ND13 · October 2005

Yep, you'll get there, it takes time and practice.

audiobliss · October 2005

ND13 wrote:

Yep, you'll get there, it takes time and practice.

But I've found the roads/highways aren't exactly the best place to practice! :eek:

PolkThug · October 2005

Magazine racing rules!

audiobliss · October 2005

*sigh*

This isn't arguing with facts from different magazines. In fact, with the example of lap times at the Nurburgring track (which I think is the most telling), Motor Trend had nothing to do with it. Other 'organizations'/groups/whatever did the laps and observed the lap times. Motor Trend was just reporting those different lap times.

thehaens@cox.net · October 2005

I looked over the skyline proto at http://www.gtrproto.com, and I, like many have been eagerly awaiting for Nissan to finally make the skyline available to the U.S. market. I can't reconcile paying upwards of 90K for a R34 through Motorex. There is a market for the GTR, just not sure if I like the GTR in the proto flavor. I am sure it will grown on me. But the lines seem very familiar to me. From the front view off center it looks a bit like a RX-8. And from the very front. I am seeing GTO. Rear, am seeing eclipse. I imagine the pricing will be upwards of 75K on this one, and will bear the Infiniti badge for the U.S. market.

scott

BTW Camaro Vs. Skyline comparo? You can't be serious in what instance would the camaro outperform the Skyline in any regard? Except maybe in the Price/Perfomance ratio. The skyline off the lot will no doubt outperform any camaro....

PolkThug · October 2005

audiobliss wrote:

*sigh*

This isn't arguing with facts from different magazines. In fact, with the example of lap times at the Nurburgring track (which I think is the most telling), Motor Trend had nothing to do with it. Other 'organizations'/groups/whatever did the laps and observed the lap times. Motor Trend was just reporting those different lap times.

I wonder if that pre-production car configuration is what the consumer can buy.

audiobliss · October 2005

thehaens@cox.ne wrote:

BTW Camaro Vs. Skyline comparo? You can't be serious in what instance would the camaro outperform the Skyline in any regard? Except maybe in the Price/Perfomance ratio. The skyline off the lot will no doubt outperform any camaro....

I never mentioned anything about the performance of the two vehicles or in anyway compared them. I just stated that I personally wouldn't know which to get (want). I even said that probably noone else would be faced with that decision because of the different target markets.

thehaens@cox.net · October 2005

audiobliss wrote:

I never mentioned anything about the performance of the two vehicles or in anyway compared them. I just stated that I personally wouldn't know which to get (want). I even said that probably noone else would be faced with that decision because of the different target markets.

AB

Check, and you are right, they are definitely very different markets.

scott

Markymark · October 2005

WHOOO

I'm glad I'm not the only one one the Viper bandwagon here.
Yes, I completely agree: driving a Viper to its full potential requires a very skilled driver.

Also, what is the power to weight ratio of the Viper to the 'Vette? I do believe the Viper is lighter. I'm almost certain it is smaller. (not that it really matters, I am just wondering if any of you know.)

jdhdiggs · October 2005

Sorry, I just don't like the Viper from the drivers perspective. I've driven a couple of them back working my way through school (Hi-Po Driving school- Coolest job ever). They were tempermental SOB's. Sexy as hell, but misbehaving beasts. The Vette's weren't too great comparatively, but they've gotten closer and I haven't taken a car out on a track like that since 2000 so I can't say.

I would say that McClaren, Ferrari, and Porsche all make more well behaved vehicles that are just as fast or faster. The '95 911 twin turbo was the most fun car to drive. You had to try and get yourself in trouble with it. If the Z06 out performs that car, I'll have to pick one up...

I like the externals and name recognition the Viper has, but I would go for the Vet for the creature comforts since I'm already married.

audiobliss · October 2005

Markymark - I guess you didn't read my lengthy post; I was afraid people wouldn't. Power to weight ratio for the Z06 is 6.2 pounds per horsepower. Viper is 6.8 pounds per horsepower.

jdhdiggs - The 'Vette Z06 is 25 seconds around Nurburgring's Nordschleife track than the Porsche 911, and the 'Vette's 6.2 lb per hp ratio is much better than the 2004 Porsche 911 GT2's ratio of 6.57. That mean you gonna get one?

Oh, and thehaens...I left the smiley out of my post. Meant to put one in there. So, here it is...

:D

Sami · October 2005

PolkThug wrote:

I wonder if that pre-production car configuration is what the consumer can buy.

Most likely not. I bet that car was specifically prepped to do good in the Ring for PR purposes. We'll have to see what a production model does.

Markymark · October 2005

audiobliss wrote:

Markymark - I guess you didn't read my lengthy post; I was afraid people wouldn't. Power to weight ratio for the Z06 is 6.2 pounds per horsepower. Viper is 6.8 pounds per horsepower.

ahhh ok. I skimmed it; I'll go back and read it.

audiobliss · October 2005

Sami wrote:

Most likely not. I bet that car was specifically prepped to do good in the Ring for PR purposes. We'll have to see what a production model does.

I certainly want to see what a production model does, too. I'll hafta say I'll be extremely disappointed if GM set it up for just that occassion, published those results, and then changed the setup for production.

PolkThug · October 2005

Sami wrote:

Most likely not. I bet that car was specifically prepped to do good in the Ring for PR purposes. We'll have to see what a production model does.

Yep, just like the 2007MY Shelby Cobra GT500 in the magazines they keep showing with a twin-screw, but the actual production version won't have that style of S/C. :mad:

jdhdiggs · October 2005

audiobliss wrote:

jdhdiggs - The 'Vette Z06 is 25 seconds around Nurburgring's Nordschleife track than the Porsche 911, and the 'Vette's 6.2 lb per hp ratio is much better than the 2004 Porsche 911 GT2's ratio of 6.57. That mean you gonna get one?
D

It was a '96 911 (not 95):

400 HP, 400 ft-lbs.. It was a whole lot of fun. Probably outclassed by those cars (although 0-60 in 3.6 aint bad).... Gotta go try one!

A new Vette? Hmm, start the family and have a kid or Vette...

ND13 · October 2005

The Viper Coupe weighs between 200-300lbs more than the Vette Z06. The Vette will definitely be the better for everyday driving. I am in no way knocking the Vette. It is a bargain, no doubt. I just know first hand what a Viper can do when the right person is behind the wheel. The rags even say, on occasion, that they couldn't get the best times from their test vehicle. Dodge is very conservative with their power figures, have been forever. Even though I work at a Dodge lot, I have no real brand loyalty. I have cars I like from virtually all makers, even Kia :eek: . When one is only loyal to one brand, that person is limiting him/herself to only a few alternatives. I will say that from my experience I have had the worst luck with GM products. I say that while owning a 272k mile1995 Chevy pickup, that runs like a top.

ND13 · October 2005

Bliss,

The best place to learn how to drive a rear wheel drive car thru turns, believe it or not, is out in the country on old dirt or gravel roads. That's where I learned how to drive, there and in go-carts. Go out and find you a safe area in the country with some windy gravel/dirt roads and start learning how to use oversteer to your advantage.

PolkThug · October 2005

www.kartvader.com

Jstas · October 2005

aaharvel wrote:

...GT40 for that matter...

The GT40? Are you sure? All of the GT40's were built in 1965 and used for racing with various engine/transmission configurations until about 1968. They did produce street going versions in those years for homologation purposes. However, they were not the exact same car as the GT40. The GT40 was basically the Shelby Cobra idea of a big engine in a little British sports car. The GT40 was based on a Lola GT chassis and body and they stuffed a small block V8 under the bonnet. It met with limited success in 1965 and had reliability problems. In 1966, they swept LeMans and handily trounced thier nearest competitor, Ferrari, by a 1% margin. In a 24 hour race, that is a large margin. They raced successfully again in 1967 and several cars continued to compete in 68 and 69 but were soon outclassed by faster cars that were made by competitors because of the bar that Ford set so high. The GT40 was so successful and far ahead of its time that its speed and lap records lasted until the 70's. It may not seem like alot, 5 years that is, but when you are racing to win and it takes you 5 seasons of racing to catch up to the dominant vehicle, that is a freaking lifetime.

Surely you don't mean THAT GT40, right? 'Cause the new Ford car is called the GT, not the GT40.

For those that do not have a firm grasp of torque vs. horsepower.

torque (t

Sami · October 2005

Jstas wrote:

A more relevant equation would be:

(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

Or simply just power = torque * velocity. "Magic numbers" are only needed if you're working with ancient units...

Nm (torque) * 1/s (velocity) = W (power).

Jstas wrote:

So to answer the question "But it's always power that moves the car, not torque." even thought it wasn't really a question, it's not power that moves the car, it's torque.

You can have all the torque in the world but if you don't have the velocity you're not moving anywhere. That is why it is always power that moves the car. I am not talking about peak power vs. peak torque.

It's Official. Skyline GT-R coming to U.S. in late 2007.

Comments