Show me your ****(embly), and let me get in your guts baby!

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Comments

  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    Can’t believe no one has a shot of the inside of the M700’s
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,363
    This?
    i0yr0z3796pr.jpg

    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amplifier: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi
  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 946
    steveinaz wrote: »
    This?
    i0yr0z3796pr.jpg
    I think that's it. It's honestly even more open space than I was expecting. But these amps get solid reviews from users, so nothing to stress about.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,641
    edited March 2019
    Amazing how far amplification has developed! How can those limited components compete with big transformers and big PC boards and a bunch of capacitors or just 2 huge capacitors is beyond me?

    I get that there isn't a tuner and all sorts of other things going on in those cases.

    It's like the tech. progress made with phones over the same years. AMAZING!
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,363
    There was no caption for that photo, so I'm not sure it's an M700...
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amplifier: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    It looks like it for sure. Amazing how there is like @displayname said all the extra space inside.
    Again though, benchtesting shows how powerful this amp is.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,258
    edited March 2019
    Tony M wrote: »
    Amazing how far amplification has developed! How can those limited components compete with big transformers and big PC boards and a bunch of capacitors or just 2 huge capacitors is beyond me?

    I get that there isn't a tuner and all sorts of other things going on in those cases.

    It's like the tech. progress made with phones over the same years. AMAZING!

    Bear in mind that the "Class D" (pulse width modulation) amplifiers like those ICE modules rely heavily on LSIs (large scale integrated circuits) to pack their functionality into a small, albeit energy-efficient, package. Many such devices use SMDs (surface mount devices) as well, to keep things as small as possible, but I don't espy too, too many SMDs in the photo(s) above. Some of the ICs are SMDs, and there look to be SMD resistors and maybe some SMD ICs on the P/S (?) board for the gain modules (the "odd board" in the back of the unit).

    Class D amp modules are, in fact, far, FAR (FAR) more complex than a traditional Class A/B push-pull power amplifier. They gain electrical efficiency, in essence (and I am playing very fast in loose with PWM amplifier topology*!), by deconstructing the audio waveform, amplifying and then reconstructing it by filtering out the ultrasonics. They also use an upconverting (high frequency) power supply to obviate the need for large transformers and capacitors to generate the operating voltages to run the amplifier(s). The Class D amps and switching P/S generate huge amounts of ultrasonic "noise" that has to be dealt with, but, again, the filter networks needed are small and inexpensive to implement.

    Is this approach better or worse, or just different than tranditional analog power amplifiers, single ended or push pull, operating in Class AB or Class A? It is certainly better in terms of energy efficiency (which is no small matter, especially in 2019's marketplace). It also lowers cost considerably (the ICEpower modules are quite inexpensive for what they do).

    Sonically, of course, it's in the ears of the beholder. :)

    ________
    * Good overview of Class D amplifier strategy here:
    https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/class-d-audio-amplifiers.html



  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,407
    Those are beasts! Is it original Mondale (sp) or Klipsch era?
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    Wow. That’s a beast
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 761
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Those are beasts! Is it original Mondale (sp) or Klipsch era?

    It is the Klipsch era 8008 mkii which is electronically the same as the 8008bb from Mondial...just upgraded aesthetics. I'm really digging this amp with the 1.2tl's. I think the amp is even larger in person than it looks in pictures online.
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 911
    I spent 10 happy years with that amp but never took the cover off! Looks awesome.
    System
    Yamaha A-S3000 Integrated Amplifier
    Sonus Faber Cremona Loudspeakers
    PS Audio Directream Jr| Jolida JD-100A CDP | Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 761
    I spent 10 happy years with that amp but never took the cover off! Looks awesome.

    I'm a little ocd...first thing i did was open it up and give the inside a little dusting lol
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,407
    edited March 2019
    Gerres26 wrote: »
    I spent 10 happy years with that amp but never took the cover off! Looks awesome.

    I'm a little ocd...first thing i did was open it up and give the inside a little dusting lol

    I would've done the same

    One of my top 3 amps to own.
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 761
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Gerres26 wrote: »
    I spent 10 happy years with that amp but never took the cover off! Looks awesome.

    I'm a little ocd...first thing i did was open it up and give the inside a little dusting lol

    I would've done the same

    One of my top 3 amps to own.

    What are the other two??
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,407
    Ayre
    Carver silver 7 tubed
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 761
    I don't know much about that Carver but would really like to check out an Ayre sometime as well.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,407
    edited April 2019
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,258
    sooo many transistors...
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,407
    Little heat producing demons is what they are ;)
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    Thinking about opening up the Niagara 5000 to see what’s inside
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 1,936
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    1gqlghpks1lr.jpg
    Holy Harris MOSFET IRF244s, Bat Man!!!
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,590
    edited April 2019
    A web pic of my new to me Furman conditioner- passive regenerator. At 83lbs it weighs more than all but a few amps I've had here over the years. That Plitron transformer is stupid heavy and huge.

    6m2o67ljsair.png

  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    I think I’ll do the same and just I
    Use webshots to show the inside (care of @Clipdat - Thank You )

    r6c93fgrlive.png

    https://www.audioquest.com/page/aq-niagara-5000-internal.html
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,590
    ^^^^^Excellent looking build quality. I'm wondering if it's made any changes-improvements to your rig's sound?
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,590
    The verdict is in on my new Furman pc now that I've had a few days with it. It has made some differences that can be seen as well as heard and I'm quite pleased with the improvements.
    How about you @joecoulson any updates?
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    Glad yours is working out. Not sure what the difference in cost for yours vs the old is but for me this was quadruple the price (I didn’t pay that) for reference.

    Now with the AQ power I already knew the performance to expect because I had the 1000 series before. Am I getting 4x the performance, I am not sure but it’s sounds waaay better.
    The blacks are deeper on the vinyl. The streaming has smoother transients. I have yet to turn on my TV but I imagine there is some visual benefit also (as there was last time). The other benefits are much more outlets including 4 high current (which is what I needed between the SVS, PS mono’s and the Marantz. The cable is a huge upgrade over the last one too with close to triple the price.

    Overall I see this as a truly end game piece for me and really no need for future upgrades. Not sure I can say that about any other piece. :#
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,590
    Thanks for the review Joe and yes in my case my new one also was several times the cost of one it was replacing. I bought 5 of the Belkins new about 10+ years ago on closeout and I can't remember how much I paid for them. The Furman is currently their totl conditioner but I was able to get a lightly used one at a great discount. Here's the changes that I've noticed.

    There seems to be more "ambiance" or perhaps air around the instruments and singers. The 3D effect of the SDA's is also certainly more pronounced and solidified. The drums have more of a "snap" to them as does the increased bass have a bit more "growl". The soundstage has also widened considerably. I have one speaker 3 feet from a sidewall and the other is 42''. This morning I noticed the soundstage reaching the 3' sidewall where it seemed like it was being stopped by that damn wall. This never happened before. On the 42" wall it was hanging in space not quite reaching the wall. I was also hoping it would close the gap on my vinyl-digital difference a little bit as it's conditioning more digital units than analog. I was wrong. If anything the difference is even more apparent now with vinyl taking a bigger step forward than I expected. Digital did improve but not as much as I was hoping for of being perhaps the equal of vinyl.

    When I say I could see the difference it was in the elimination of noise from the lines as I have no tv in the sound room. I have 5 PS Audio noise harvesters that I use on different circuits in the room. Since the Furman has been installed the harvesters no longer blink on any of the rig's dedicated circuits. But they do blink furiously on non dedicated lines. They use to blink at a reduced pace on the audio circuits but I'm guessing the Furman has somehow completely stopped any noise as that's been the only change.

    Yes I'm also quite pleased with this upgrade and the only one I can think of that I may do at some point in time is add a 20 amp after market power cord. That won't be happening for a while though as I want to get very familiar with the sound for a point of reference on that upgrade. Plus the fact that 20 amp cords ain't cheap and this upgrade has drained my piggy bank for a while
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